Fargo results 2010-2016

[Ghetto]

*Hunter Marko

[bigoil]

I do not buy for one second that we cannot get enough Wisconsin wrestlers
to field a competitive junior freestyle team.  There are wrestlers that very much
want to represent Wisconsin at the national duals in freestyle. Having only one wrestler
finish in the top four at fargo is a clear example of not being successful.   We need a coach that
has the desire to put a team together made up of wrestlers that want to compete, and
we should not have a leader of Wisconsin wrestling that tells us that kids would rather spend the summer
fishing so we are better off not sending a team. I cannot believe it. Send a team
to the junior national duals like we did when Dieringer was in high school.  Marko Hunter
should have been at the national duals but Wisconsin failed him.  Barry Davis did that
at Wisconsin also. I remember one year where Wisconsin was invited to attend the national duals
and Barry Davis turned it down because Wisconsin was so uncompetitive.  As a spectator, I attended
and watched Ben Askren bump up a weight to take on Minnesota's Kish in an attempt for Missouri
to beat Minnesota at the national duals.  Great action, but no Wisconsin there.  Barry has
had a change of heart now and realizes that avoiding competition is a bad way to get better results.

98
Pelot, Ty
105
Nachreiner, Bobby
112
Knops, Riley
112
Loos, Austin
119
McQuade, Ryan
125
Weber, Hunter
125
Garcia, Dominic
130
Durante, Zach
135
Thielke, Jesse
135
Kust, Jared
140
Allen, Thomas
140
Donar, Jarod
145
Lubeck, Rylan
145
Leibfourth, John
152
Dieringer, Alex
152
Gartner, Ryan
160
Benitz, Zak
160
Dolezal, Brad
171
Gray, Matt
171
Morrissey, Jacob
189
Peterson, Devin
189
Hughes, Shane
215
Birschbach, Justin
215
Dunlap, Roland

You think WI could field a team to compete with this team? 12 D1 wrestlers, some didn't pan out for various reasons but an Olympian, 3 time NCAA champ, several big 10 athletes. People keep bringing up when Dierenger was on the dual team, that was a ridiculously talented class of kids.

[bulldog]

Couple posts behind...hang on...I will bring this back to the actual topic

Bman - (i appreciate the use of "douce") yep...you basically restated (in a clear way) what I have been getting at. The kid had multiple goals he was aiming at for his HS career. Some he hit, some he changed as time went on and some he did not attain. The coach did nothing to revisit those goals help guide the kids in the room towards those goals. Ultimately the goals setting aspect was a pointless exercise. But regarding the "pushy parent" aspect...

npope...maybe some parents feel the kid sets goals and then they expect the coach/teacher to do everything to assure the kid attains that goal. But I believe many involved parents are trying to work with the resources they have available to help attain the kids goals. Teachers and coaches are part of those resources. What is not seen is the parent who is doing things with the kid outside of the classroom and the practice room. I (and many parents) have no problem paying more. Parents are willing to pay hundreds of dollars for 3-4 months of training per kid for additional sports training. They are paying extra for additional music lessons and acting classes. And the pay tutors and learning centers for additional educational instruction. So I think for the engaged parent and kid paying is not the issue. Results and ownership may be...

finally...bigoil...great list...and I will wager to bet that list has a common element...a very involved parent behind them. This thread is about becoming competitive at the national level. Change can happen as a group. But in some cases (maybe many) once the HS folkstyle season is done the season is done. With a "push" from parents at the local level maybe there would be a growth of FR/GR instruction at the local level and more Wisconsin athletes would get involved. But that would require "pushy parents" being pushy...

And maybe it isn't needed. Those kids find the instruction they need elsewhere....

[littleguy301]

being a "pushy" parent and a supportive parent is 2 very different things but can be very close also.

[littleguy301]

also I have to ask this question.

If so many are unhappy with the way things are going for the kids at the national level and the state coaches or administration isnt listening,

can the wrestler/parents request a wavier to compete in another state that would maybe suit/fit the needs of the wrestler?

[littleguy301]

Would that be out of line to ask for a wavier?

I look at the south east part of the state and being so close to Chicago I am sure many of those wrestlers would benifit from competion in that area.

Also with quite a few wrestlers living on the western side of the state, with Iowa and Minnesota being so close for many of those, maybe the twin cities would be an option.

[littleguy301]

Looking at where training area are at, 2 on the eastern part of the state and 1 on the western part, travel for practices can/could be very difficult for some. Maybe I have the areas wrong but just asking.

I didnt see alot of kids from the western side of the state or more in the area of northwest. seemed to be more from the eastern side but that could also be a product of where the top end talent is at, at this time. No rip on anyone, please.

Maybe going to Fargo isnt the high light of ones wrestling career, maybe it is. Maybe some gave it a chance and that was good enough for them. Maybe baseball, summer jobs, family plans and such got in the way or were deemed more important at that time.

I dont have any answers, just alot of my own opinions and thoughts.

[SP]

Aarons- We are going in circles because you refuse to give a specific example of what success should look like. You stated that it is more than just AA's. I believe that as well but people seem to judge success by the number we have or the place we take at Fargo. i gave examples that show we could have had 10 AA's and still not been in the top ten. I also gave the example that Florida only had two AA's and they placed ahead of us. Were they more successful than us this year? The numbers show that the winning percentage for WI has gone up from .510 to .620 over the past three years. We also did this while bringing more kids than 85% of the states.

If we are only concerned with the kids that are able to earn scholarships we should only bring 25 kids to Fargo and they have to be capable of placing or we will not bring them. Look at Michigan and New Jersey, low numbers! I for one do not want our state to only focus on the exceptional kids. The current system has shown that our overall level has gone up.

Billymurphy-
We failed Hunter Marko because we did not go to the duals. Did he attend one of the regionals? It is nice to know that some only want success for a few instead of everyone. History in our state showed that the kids that attended the duals did not always return to Fargo and sometimes they under performed at Fargo.

[Ghetto]

We also did this while bringing more kids than 855 of the states.

🤔

Starts to count states,  runs out of fingers, starts over....

😜

[aarons23]

Aarons- We are going in circles because you refuse to give a specific example of what success should look like. You stated that it is more than just AA's. I believe that as well but people seem to judge success by the number we have or the place we take at Fargo. i gave examples that show we could have had 10 AA's and still not been in the top ten. I also gave the example that Florida only had two AA's and they placed ahead of us. Were they more successful than us this year? The numbers show that the winning percentage for WI has gone up from .510 to .620 over the past three years. We also did this while bringing more kids than 855 of the states.

If we are only concerned with the kids that are able to earn scholarships we should only bring 25 kids to Fargo and they have to be capable of placing or we will not bring them. Look at Michigan and New Jersey, low numbers! I for one do not want our state to only focus on the exceptional kids. The current system has shown that our overall level has gone up.

Billymurphy-
We failed Hunter Marko because we did not go to the duals. Did he attend one of the regionals? It is nice to know that some only want success for a few instead of everyone. History in our state showed that the kids that attended the duals did not always return to Fargo and sometimes they under performed at Fargo.

I was pretty specific when I said success should have us competing with our neighbors....we are not.  You know my main issue is the duals....but you refuse to address how you think they are not good for the state of Wisconsin when every other state that places in front of us are utilizing them. We have one of the lowest numbers of recruites going to D1 and 2 in the country....but we take opportunities away from our kids to be seen and make a name for themselves.  We take a great opportunity away from our kids to get mat time on one of the biggest stages in high school wrestling that helps prepare them for the grind of Fargo.  I have no doubt your satisfied....your son did great....good for him.  Now take him and Dow ( whom was able to qualify for pan am and utilized it to prepare for Fargo) out of the equation and it pretty much a disaster.  

[aarons23]

For the record in 2012 in freestyle we took 43 atheletes and scored 14 points....so the improvement we are talking about is 2 more atheletes and 1 more team point.

[bulldog]

being a "pushy" parent and a supportive parent is 2 very different things but can be very close also.

Yep littleguy I agree...problem is the other person's perception. A supportive parent in ones eyes may be a pushy parent in an others.

[SP]

For the record in 2012 in freestyle we took 43 athletes and scored 14 points....so the improvement we are talking about is 2 more atheletes and 1 more team point.

For the record in 2012 our winning percentage was .5086. Overall record was 88-85 and we had 11 kids go 0-2.
In 2016 our winning percentage was .6198. Overall record of 150-92 with only 3 kids going 0-2.

I call that improvement.

That year at the duals we placed 6th. We brought 21 kids and 14 of those also went to Fargo. Only two of those kids placed, Matt Gray and Justin Karluka. Hunter Weber and seth Leigel were the two others that placed and they did not attend the duals. Other notables that did not place but attended the duals, Crone, JJ McClennand, Jared Donar, Scharenbrock, Nick Becker, Jacob Stillings, Aaron Rothwell, Jacob Morrisey, and Billy Prochniski. Ryan Gartner, Mitchell Freidman and Newton Schmerchek did not attend Fargo after doing the duals.

So as i see it, we are sending about the same amount of kids and placing in the same range. The improvement is our record is drastically improved as a team and we have only a few kids going 0-2. I say that is improvement. The next step is to get more kids on the podium and keep our numbers at this level or higher.

I also understand that you like the duals and feel it is important to attend. These numbers show that it really did not do much for our kids. We can go back and forth about year to year results but in the end we are getting better as a state. building depth is a must to improve our state as a whole. Having a program in place that only serves the elite is wrong and that is not how we operate and i for one am glad we do not!

[SP]

Like I stated earlier, we had 4 AA's and Florida had 2 but they placed one point ahead of us. I do not see them as being more successful than us.

i did not say that our kids were not prepared for Fargo. I feel they were prepared because of the training and competition program set up by the WWF coaching coordinator. We had lots of kids attend either the Central or northern Regional as well as the UWW World team trials in Akron. There was also several training camp weekends and one day camps throughout the spring.

The improvement of the overall team is up from past years. As I said in a previous post, the next step is to get the five kids that lost in the blood round to win those matches and to get others higher on the podium. One of the reasons that Minnesota does so well is that 75% of their population lives in the St. Paul/Minneapolis area and they are able to get more of their better kids together to train. (same as Illinois with Chicago) This has allowed their depth to increase and thus their better kids get better. We are headed in that direction but we have a bigger hurdle with our population spread out more than our neighbors.

[DocWrestling]

Lets not forget to ask the kids what they think!   I think the training and prep needs to be fun and I think most of the athletes that did both the duals and Fargo will tell you they had more fun at the duals.

Is it not possible to train hard for the duals and then back off and heal and rest up for Fargo to really peak at the right time!

Need a training regimen that allows these athletes to peak at the end of February, heal up a bit and rest and then bring them back and train in new styles with the goal to peak at Fargo.

I would think that the duals could easily be worked into a training regimen and I would use the duals as training (and a fun time) and less about the results because I would not want them at peak condition at that time.

Costs have been brought up as a factor and that is an unknown to me as an outsider.