Fargo results 2010-2016

[mike]

Woody
Careful?
I think we have several fine coaches.
I have had several parents of kids at Fargo reach out to me since I placed the post and express there thoughts, I wish they would do it on this post.
I think some change is nesseasry.
It sounds like most would like to do the duals.
It sounds like most don't agree with an intense camp that ends a day before Fargo.
It sounds like most feel politics are a part of the culture.
Just saying.
I have been warned by several that pointing this out could get my son black balled, nice thing we have going
on here, what do you think Woody?

What politics u speaking of?  I have seen none and my son has been involved with WWF since 2nd grade....and as far as coaching staffs goes.....our coaching staff is as good as it gets for a state at Fargo

[bigoil]

Woody
Careful?
I think we have several fine coaches.
I have had several parents of kids at Fargo reach out to me since I placed the post and express there thoughts, I wish they would do it on this post.
I think some change is nesseasry.
It sounds like most would like to do the duals.
It sounds like most don't agree with an intense camp that ends a day before Fargo.
It sounds like most feel politics are a part of the culture.
Just saying.
I have been warned by several that pointing this out could get my son black balled, nice thing we have going on here, what do you think Woody?

I noticed that you call for participation in the duals and yet I didn't see your son wrestle on Team WI, I hope he isn't injured.

[SP]

Woody
Careful?
I think we have several fine coaches.
I have had several parents of kids at Fargo reach out to me since I placed the post and express there thoughts, I wish they would do it on this post.
I think some change is necessary.
It sounds like most would like to do the duals.
It sounds like most don't agree with an intense camp that ends a day before Fargo.
It sounds like most feel politics are a part of the culture.
Just saying.
I have been warned by several that pointing this out could get my son black balled, nice thing we have going on here, what do you think Woody?

What change do you suggest?
Please give examples of politics.
The camp in River Falls in not intensive. Lots of drilling and a few matches.
How would you son be black balled? Would he not be able to wrestle the state tournament. Would the WWF not allow him to qualify through a regional? Would he not be allowed to come to camp and wrestle off for a spot? Answer to all is no, your son would never be black balled and it is not even possible for the WWF do accomplish any of this.
Pretty easy to sit behind a computer and cut down our program and give no facts. Your points would be taken more serious if you had specific examples of these things happening and not just comments without merit.

[aarons23]

Woody
Careful?
I think we have several fine coaches.
I have had several parents of kids at Fargo reach out to me since I placed the post and express there thoughts, I wish they would do it on this post.
I think some change is necessary.
It sounds like most would like to do the duals.
It sounds like most don't agree with an intense camp that ends a day before Fargo.
It sounds like most feel politics are a part of the culture.
Just saying.
I have been warned by several that pointing this out could get my son black balled, nice thing we have going on here, what do you think Woody?

What change do you suggest?
Please give examples of politics.
The camp in River Falls in not intensive. Lots of drilling and a few matches.
How would you son be black balled? Would he not be able to wrestle the state tournament. Would the WWF not allow him to qualify through a regional? Would he not be allowed to come to camp and wrestle off for a spot? Answer to all is no, your son would never be black balled and it is not even possible for the WWF do accomplish any of this.
Pretty easy to sit behind a computer and cut down our program and give no facts. Your points would be taken more serious if you had specific examples of these things happening and not just comments without merit.

Not intensive?  You may want to talk to the kids who were there.  This has been a complaint for several years.

[mike]

Getyourpoints
1 easy
2 to
3 call
4 out
5 program
6 and
7 coaches
8 behind
9 cute
10 screen name
11 

[padre]

No wonder we didn't place higher - would we all agree if we increase those numbers we will very likely improve our results? So why are we not getting more participation at Fargo?

Maybe not that many kids want to train all summer for Fargo.   High School season starts in November, but how many start in September getting ready for it.  Then get done at end of February.  For those kids that want to do freestyle and greco you then have to go until May, plus add 2 more months in you want to go to Fargo.   That's 8+ months from start of High School season if you don't practice early in fall.   

I know this may sound odd to some people but maybe not many boys/girls out there that really don't want to wrestle 9 months a year.   There are a lot of options out there for kids to do, wrestling is a great option, but for most it's not the only option of what they want to do.  Plenty of good wrestlers want to do other things like track, football, baseball, cross country and just decided that wrestling isn't their only thing.

Plus 1,0000

[padre]

So Mike your happy with the system?
I have told these coaches face to face my thoughts.
You also understand this is a forum where people voice thoughts, jokes, facts, frustrations. I just want to make sure you know the purpose of a forum.

I wonder if you've ever truly stepped back and wonder what the coaches say to each other when you are walking towards them. I'm not just saying summer coaches...even during the regular season at your school, the school you were at or the one you may find yourself at in the future.

I think most here know who you are and I don't think this is the way at all to get positive change.  Most on here would like to see Wisconsin do great at Fargo but almost none have a player in the game. My kids were/are good wrestlers but baseball was always something they did in the spring and enjoyed. So you are aiming criticism at people mostly looking from the outside in. This should have been done behind closed doors with those that are running the summer program instead of just throwing out negativity here.

I can say that I know these coaches quite well and they deserve tons of praise for all the work they do.

[ElectricGuy]

No wonder we didn't place higher - would we all agree if we increase those numbers we will very likely improve our results? So why are we not getting more participation at Fargo?

Maybe not that many kids want to train all summer for Fargo.   High School season starts in November, but how many start in September getting ready for it.  Then get done at end of February.  For those kids that want to do freestyle and greco you then have to go until May, plus add 2 more months in you want to go to Fargo.   That's 8+ months from start of High School season if you don't practice early in fall.   

I know this may sound odd to some people but maybe not many boys/girls out there that really don't want to wrestle 9 months a year.   There are a lot of options out there for kids to do, wrestling is a great option, but for most it's not the only option of what they want to do.  Plenty of good wrestlers want to do other things like track, football, baseball, cross country and just decided that wrestling isn't their only thing.

Plus 1,0000

+10,000   Had to out do you.....  But agree,  but then again what does Foose know, it's not like he is a parent of a multi state champ..   

Also, some kids just don't enjoy FS / GR - some just enjoy folkstyle and focus more on that in tournaments and training in their fall prep work. 

[dman]

Padre,
I think most of us on the forum know whom each other are so I hope it doesn't come across as I am trying to hide my identity. I know who you are and I respect that you approach wrestling in a different manor then others on this site. I challenge you to show me where I have attacked the coaches or questioned there dedication to the sport. I understand and appreciate many of them are not being paid for there efforts, and I again thank them for that.
This thread is geared for the top 5% of our sport, the kids that wrestle year round and are competing at a national level and most likely have been since they were young. This is comparing what we are doing compared to Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and Michagan. This isn't a debate comparing local programs or what's right or wrong with our sport locally.
The kids that are choosing to go to Fargo are making a much larger commitment to the sport (as are the coaches) and most likely have much different goals then 90% of other wrestlers. And so I am clear I am not saying that makes them better or worse just more committed. So to be competitive at a "national level" we need to be a bit more thick skinned and address why we are on a Six plus year run of not being competitive with our neighbors. Yes we have had some great individual efforts and success but over all we are being lapped in score and All Americans.
To address your statement about what coaches may say I am sure it's a mixed bag as I know it is with you as well, folks in this sport enjoy talking about one another unfortunately at least I am being transparent.
So Padre if WB middle school was continually getting its tail kicked by its neighbors would you not look to make changes? Would your local boosters not be asking for change in some sort, I'm not suggesting coaching changes.
I am not asking that we make coaching changes with team WI either I am simply comparing it to our neighboring states that are having success and asking why we are not doing what they are doing. The only coaching change I suggested was getting more local collage coaches to be part of the team? Is that a bad idea

The problem is you don't know what changes the federation has made and how they are constantly trying to improve and make things better.  You really think they are sitting around saying let's keep the status quo??  The problem with your approach is you have no idea what you are talking about and feel it is "beneficial" to play passive aggressive with your negativity and back handed comments publicly.  I also laugh at you saying you know the coaches and what they put into the sport...you sir have no clue...and here is a suggestion...how about stop typing behind a key board and get out and coach, volunteer, get involved, and apply to become a WWF board member??

[lizard king]

I will give examples and I hope I am talking about old news and coaches that are no longer there, but it is what I know.  I am talking about the 5-7 years ago range.

First, My son did wrestle at the state Freestyle tournament and took second to a highly recruited WI kid, good match (finished higher at Fargo). Even though they took two kids at each weight, my son was not asked to go.  A young man who my son had pinned went.  I called several coaches to ask why and could not get an answer.  We were relatively unknown by the WI community.  Finally I got a coach to admit that they took the other kid because it was a high school team mate and his dad was helping out.

 Now, same year, we go to Fargo.  7 coaches were there for WI, but when ever a big name kid was wrestling, the coaches mostly went there.  When my son and others were wrestling, they sometimes didn't have a coach.  In fact, my son wrestled a match, and as he was walking off, literally, they called him to his semi final match.  He did not have a coach to say wait, or complain, or anything.  He changed his singlet on the mat and wrestled.  meanwhile, all 7 coaches were in the corner for a big name WI kid.  (this match was huge for us, and WI, he was wrestling a big WI recruit.)  You might say, well then be a coach, but I asked many times to help, and was told they had enough.

My son went on to wrestle out of state with a combined full scholarship.  I was left with the feeling that, unless you already have a "name" you don't mean much, thankfully the out of state college coaches did not feel that way.  

If I was reading this I would think, that dad must have been a jerk, or he did something to upset people, but I don't believe so, we just were nobody.
 

[padre]

Padre,
I think most of us on the forum know whom each other are so I hope it doesn't come across as I am trying to hide my identity. I know who you are and I respect that you approach wrestling in a different manor then others on this site. I challenge you to show me where I have attacked the coaches or questioned there dedication to the sport. I understand and appreciate many of them are not being paid for there efforts, and I again thank them for that.
This thread is geared for the top 5% of our sport, the kids that wrestle year round and are competing at a national level and most likely have been since they were young. This is comparing what we are doing compared to Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois and Michagan. This isn't a debate comparing local programs or what's right or wrong with our sport locally.
The kids that are choosing to go to Fargo are making a much larger commitment to the sport (as are the coaches) and most likely have much different goals then 90% of other wrestlers. And so I am clear I am not saying that makes them better or worse just more committed. So to be competitive at a "national level" we need to be a bit more thick skinned and address why we are on a Six plus year run of not being competitive with our neighbors. Yes we have had some great individual efforts and success but over all we are being lapped in score and All Americans.
To address your statement about what coaches may say I am sure it's a mixed bag as I know it is with you as well, folks in this sport enjoy talking about one another unfortunately at least I am being transparent.
So Padre if WB middle school was continually getting its tail kicked by its neighbors would you not look to make changes? Would your local boosters not be asking for change in some sort, I'm not suggesting coaching changes.
I am not asking that we make coaching changes with team WI either I am simply comparing it to our neighboring states that are having success and asking why we are not doing what they are doing. The only coaching change I suggested was getting more local collage coaches to be part of the team? Is that a bad idea

Boosters? Now that's funny.  I went out and made change....very few of my kids wrestle a lot during the summer. I ask that they are committed from October on.  In many of these schools multi sport athletes are needed just to fill teams.

I definitely would have found a better way than to challenge those in charge.  I'm just saying calling these things out to mostly people not involved in the process can leave egg on ones face and promotes a negative attitude to those that are in charge who I know are doing all they can to help Wisconsin do well.

Trust me for your home town coaches I wouldn't expect that they like me...but there's a whole different circumstance to why that is...it's not because I degrade anybody. Instead I didn't like the situation and went out and made change...which has worked out very nicely.

[DarkKnight]

No wonder we didn't place higher - would we all agree if we increase those numbers we will very likely improve our results? So why are we not getting more participation at Fargo?

Maybe not that many kids want to train all summer for Fargo.   High School season starts in November, but how many start in September getting ready for it.  Then get done at end of February.  For those kids that want to do freestyle and greco you then have to go until May, plus add 2 more months in you want to go to Fargo.   That's 8+ months from start of High School season if you don't practice early in fall.   

I know this may sound odd to some people but maybe not many boys/girls out there that really don't want to wrestle 9 months a year.   There are a lot of options out there for kids to do, wrestling is a great option, but for most it's not the only option of what they want to do.  Plenty of good wrestlers want to do other things like track, football, baseball, cross country and just decided that wrestling isn't their only thing.

Agreed

[madeyson]

maydeson - If I ran the numbers right and deduped correctly there were 6 competitors from Kaukauana and 6 from Stoughton at Fargo. I am not sure if your competitors numbers are correct. I get 127 Wisconsin competitors at Fargo this year - 56 Cadets and 71 Juniors. I did not go look at other state to see how they compared. And I did not count the Women's competitors - that would probably add another 20-25 Wisconsin competitors.

Did I miscount or did you only count one style?

Also...if my numbers are correct...in 2015 Wisconsin had 117 competitors at Fargo - 57 Cadets and 60 Juniors...

And 72 of the 2016 Fargo Competitors from Wisconsin did not compete at Fargo last year - 46 cadets and 26 Juniors.

Oh...and in 2015 Hudson had 7 competitors at Fargo...Stoughton, Kaukauna and Mukwonago each had 4

Let me know if you see an error in my counts. Thanks

Sorry Bulldog I should have clarified that I only looked at Freestyle...sorry about that. Your numbers looks spot on - I didn't go through school-by-school, impressive for those that you mentioned. I think most of those have someone at the H.S. coaching level that is very active in the WWF, which is probably why they are seeing more participation. But there have been some great points made on here as well - multi-sport athletes and the grind of the season being major factors. If I had to pick one thing that I think could have the biggest impact, and education for all H.S. coaches on the positive effects of summer wrestling. I have seen a lot of stats and information provided by Askren, Combat, and Ringers about those positive effects of summer wrestling - maybe that could have some impact (I will admit this may be going on already and I just don't see it).

[Harris]

I have coached youth sports for a long time and stopped coaching 2 years ago for some of the reasons mentioned in this thread.  I have no dog in this fight but I expect some important WI wrestling people will be reading this thread so I want to make 2 points for them to consider.  I will admit right now I have no idea who the coaches or leaders of the organization are so take my opinion with that in mind:

1.  When the governing body of a sport allows favoritism in any way, it pushes away good coaches and leads to mediocrity when the talent pool is low.  For example, anyone can be a good coach with a stacked team.  It comes around every few years.  Only a great coach and organization can consistently produce winning teams.  Don't allow super star athlete parents (or the athlete themselves) to manipulate the system in their child's favor.  I have seen it tear apart something good a thousand times.  Once the super star athlete moves on or quits, the organization is left holding an empty bag.
2.  When the governing body of a sport or coach allows favoritism in any way, it pushes away good wrestlers and leads to mediocrity when the talent pool is low.  Many young men and women athletes see the hypocrisy and just walk away from the sport.  I have repetitively seen some of the best and most talented athletes say screw it because of a bad organization or coach.

I spend most of my time on the UW Badger part of the forum.  It is amazing how this thread sounds a lot like the complaints going on about the state of UW wrestling.

Once again, I don't know any of the people being talked about in this thread.  I just wanted to share a few generic comments concerning what I was reading.  

To those pushy parents out there who think their kid is going to be the next gold medal Olympic champion and they deserve favoritism or special treatment, you are the real problem.  I have seen the most un-athletic, crying middle schooler become a state champ in high school while the sure thing middle school athlete self destructs and brings the whole organization to ground zero.  Great coaches and great organizations realize that all kids develop differently and all athletes deserve the same treatment.  You never know who is going to be the next John Peterson type who develops later, rather than sooner.  Every kid on that mat is just as important as the next.

[bulldog]

To those pushy parents out there who think their kid is going to be the next gold medal Olympic champion and they deserve favoritism or special treatment, you are the real problem.  I have seen the most un-athletic, crying middle schooler become a state champ in high school while the sure thing middle school athlete self destructs and brings the whole organization to ground zero.  Great coaches and great organizations realize that all kids develop differently and all athletes deserve the same treatment.  You never know who is going to be the next John Peterson type who develops later, rather than sooner.  Every kid on that mat is just as important as the next.

Harris...I think I agree with your general post. I may be nitpicking specifics here...sorry if I am.

The one "issue" I have with your statement...The "pushy parents out there who think their kid is going to be the next gold medal Olympic champion...". I don't believe that the Ben Provisors and Jesse Thielkes got where they are without the pushy parent standing behind, next to and in front of the kid? I know the stories of putting young Ben in a car to travel to practice on a school night while he did homework in the car. Granted...the Olympian is a small percentage of the athletic community. But the dream has to start sometime and somewhere. Nobody thought Ben Provisor at age 5 would be a 2x Olympian. I wonder when that belief came to him. I will guess his HS coaches didn't see that. He was one (talented) kid in a HS room of 40

I would guess that the greater percentage of Olympians had that "pushy parent" in their corner as compared to those that made the Olympics without the "pushy parent". I am guessing it is a rarity to have a state champ didn't get there without the support of a "pushy parent" these days. The days of someone showing up out of the blue to stand on top of the podium are gone.

I agree...every kid on the mat is just as important as the next. But not every kid on the mat has the same goals.

Also, I don't agree that every athlete deserves the same treatment...would you throw an unseasoned (1st year) wrestler into a high level training session? Probably not. So why treat the seasoned wrestler the same as the 1st year wrestler in the room?

Maybe (because of lack of resources) a coach may have to plan their practices/training to fit the group...not the individual. And it makes sense to coach to the lowest common denominator...the lowest (or lower) skill level in the room. Thus the "higher level" athlete feels unchallenged in the practice room. He ends up feeling frustrated and shares that frustration with their parent (because we have taught our kids to be respectful and do what the coach tells you to do). 

So here comes the "pushy parent" trying to explain to the coach what they see. Maybe the parent explains things in an abrupt/combative tone (remember...many of these parents were wrestlers...trained in a combat sport). Coach doesn't like the tone and informs parent of that. And ultimately Coach and Pushy Parent butt heads. Pushy Parent is put in a crappy situation...trying to help their kid get the most out of the sport but is now at odds with the coach.

I know of a wrestler who wrote a goal freshman year of HS and gave it to his coach. The goal was to wrestle for a D1 college. Coach had a meeting with the parent and the wrestler and explained to them that a low percentage of HS wrestlers ever compete in college and even a lower percentage at a D1 level. He continued to explain that it was okay to just enjoy the sport and there was nothing wrong if you never attained that goal. I think the parent told the coach he should "embrace the goal and not crap on a dream" (maybe he told him something else...I would have said "go to inappropriate term3") and the coach preceded to avoid that parent for the next 4 years and that wrestler was frustrated with the sport for the next 4 years.