Fargo results 2010-2016

[getyourpoints]

Track Wrestling has archived the Fargo results for the past 6 years, so I wanted to see how WI stacked up compared to previous years and how we stack up to our neighbors. It was interesting to see that Wisconsin and our neighboring states basically have had the same score every year. So with that said I put the 6 year average together and ranked them in order.

Average score from 2010 - 2016

Junior
1. Illinois 59
2. Minnesota 39
3. Iowa 38
4. Michigan 28
5. Wisconsin 18

Cadet
1. Illinois 82
2. Iowa 31
3. Minnesota 31
4. Michigan 22
5. Wisconsin 16

I don't know what this really means other then what were doing currently is not catching us up to our neighbors, it has been same for years.  

[gijd]

Not sure what this means, but I guess Illinois should be dominating the Big 10. Illinois should be a national contender year in and year out!!!!!!!!!!

[npope]

It seems like Illinois has a similar problem as Wisconsin does in that none of there top recruits want to wrestle for there home university.  

I don't know if your conclusion is necessarily accurate. The data says that the top in-state recruits for WI and IL don't end up at their respective home-state university; the data says nothing regarding whether they don't "want" to wrestle there. I know that it seems to be picking at a nuanced choice of words, but you are (deliberately?) painting a picture that suggests those two universities are somehow unpalatable to those in-state top tier wrestlers. Is it possible that the top tier wrestlers (from any state) are highly sought after and thus, the best wrestlers can go to programs with stronger wrestling traditions, i.e., they have their choice among a handful of the very best programs in the nation and they merely choose a top tier program instead of a lesser program like the UW or IL? Maybe it has nothing to do with whether they "like or don't like" their home state institution but rather, everything to do with how much they like the school they end up choosing. Maybe the home state institution is number two on the list of all of those recruits (the data you present doesn't touch that issue). If so, that would merely suggest that WI and IL are more like the bride's maid and seldom the bride.

[billymurphy]

The original conclusion is valid. The University of Illinois should be better.
Illinois will have a very good 165 lbs guy this year who will be going for his third title.

And Marko Hunter had a very disappointing Fargo tournament.  Is he a candidate for
another 4 time Wisconsin state champion who cannot succeed at Minnesota?
Minnesota definitely does not lack high school talent but Wisconsin's 14th place finish
at Fargo is now a trend.

[npope]

npope,
You read into the statement way more then I intended it to mean, I tend to agree with your take on it. I was addressing the sarcasm that Illinois should be a power house based on national high school results. I am not a fan of Illinois youth and high school wrestling but it is hard to dispute that they have been one of the top 3 wrestling states in the nation for a long time.   

Okay. I took it as a subtle attempt to get a "get rid of Barry thread" rolling again. Which would be fine IMO if that is what someone wants to talk about, but I just thought that if that were the goal, being more transparent about the intent would be more honest.

Sorry to jump the gun.

[billymurphy]

For sure Wisconsin needs to send a team to the national duals.
Combine the best cadets and Juniors and send one fully loaded junior freestyle team to the national duals.

Ohio did this exact thing a few years back when they had money issues. They just entered the junior freestyle division and
did very well.   I know Wisconsin could send a competitive team to the national duals because we have done it before.
Make sure there are adequate backups to avoid ever having to forfeit.  When Ohio sent their team, they did not even bring
any backups. Just one guy per weight to cut costs to a bare minimum.  I find it hard to believe that we can not at least
send a few extra guys, but to not send a team is unacceptable if you want to prepare our guys for the level of competition
that is at fargo. 14th place is something we can improve on and if I was not a broken down old man, I would offer to lead the team.

[aarons23]

For sure Wisconsin needs to send a team to the national duals.
Combine the best cadets and Juniors and send one fully loaded junior freestyle team to the national duals.

Ohio did this exact thing a few years back when they had money issues. They just entered the junior freestyle division and
did very well.   I know Wisconsin could send a competitive team to the national duals because we have done it before.
Make sure there are adequate backups to avoid ever having to forfeit.  When Ohio sent their team, they did not even bring
any backups. Just one guy per weight to cut costs to a bare minimum.  I find it hard to believe that we can not at least
send a few extra guys, but to not send a team is unacceptable if you want to prepare our guys for the level of competition
that is at fargo. 14th place is something we can improve on and if I was not a broken down old man, I would offer to lead the team.

We need to be sending all teams from schoolboy on up.  With proper planning cost isnt an issue.  Many states send 2 teams, Wisconsin shouldnt be any different.

[kneeslide]

In the cadet freestyle division there are 136 all Americans at Fargo.  Of those 136 all Americans only 52 attended the cadet duals.

In the junior freestyle division there are 120 all Americans at Fargo.   Of those 120 all Americans only 56 attended junior duals.

[Ivan Stankowski]

The original conclusion is valid. The University of Illinois should be better.
Illinois will have a very good 165 lbs guy this year who will be going for his third title.

And Marko Hunter had a very disappointing Fargo tournament.  Is he a candidate for
another 4 time Wisconsin state champion who cannot succeed at Minnesota?
Minnesota definitely does not lack high school talent but Wisconsin's 14th place finish
at Fargo is now a trend.

I think the list of 4 time state champs from any state that do not have success at any given college could be debated. I do not think it has anything to do with a Wisconsin to Minnesota thing,
Also I am sure no one was more disappointed then the young man himself, I would just like to thank him for representing the State of Wisconsin and wish him the best of luck in college.

[madeyson]

Thanks Kneeslide, I was actually wondering what those numbers were...very interesting. I wish there was an easy answer on how to improve our results at Fargo. I heard the interview from one of the AA this weekend from Minnesota, that from his High School team there were 3 cadets and 6 juniors competing at Fargo. Did we have any one school in Wisconsin produce 9 participants in Fargo? Would participation in duals improve that number? Just some more numbers from the bordering states in terms of participation at the Cadet and Junior level:

Minnesota 57 cadets and 67 juniors
Iowa 52 cadets and 57 juniors
Illinois 81 cadets and 82 juniors
Wisconsin 39 cadets and 45 juniors

No wonder we didn't place higher - would we all agree if we increase those numbers we will very likely improve our results? So why are we not getting more participation at Fargo?

[lizard king]

Thanks Kneeslide, I was actually wondering what those numbers were...very interesting. I wish there was an easy answer on how to improve our results at Fargo. I heard the interview from one of the AA this weekend from Minnesota, that from his High School team there were 3 cadets and 6 juniors competing at Fargo. Did we have any one school in Wisconsin produce 9 participants in Fargo? Would participation in duals improve that number? Just some more numbers from the bordering states in terms of participation at the Cadet and Junior level:

Minnesota 57 cadets and 67 juniors
Iowa 52 cadets and 57 juniors
Illinois 81 cadets and 82 juniors
Wisconsin 39 cadets and 45 juniors

No wonder we didn't place higher - would we all agree if we increase those numbers we will very likely improve our results? So why are we not getting more participation at Fargo?

When my kids were wrestling this age I felt there were a lot of politics and favoritism taking place.  Going to Fargo, I had to find out about on my own, work at getting my kids qualified, and then watch them not even be coached at Fargo.  If we really want a good showing, promote it with all of the kids at the state tournament, help them, coach them, and make it obtainable for them all to try.

[foose4]

No wonder we didn't place higher - would we all agree if we increase those numbers we will very likely improve our results? So why are we not getting more participation at Fargo?

Maybe not that many kids want to train all summer for Fargo.   High School season starts in November, but how many start in September getting ready for it.  Then get done at end of February.  For those kids that want to do freestyle and greco you then have to go until May, plus add 2 more months in you want to go to Fargo.   That's 8+ months from start of High School season if you don't practice early in fall.   

I know this may sound odd to some people but maybe not many boys/girls out there that really don't want to wrestle 9 months a year.   There are a lot of options out there for kids to do, wrestling is a great option, but for most it's not the only option of what they want to do.  Plenty of good wrestlers want to do other things like track, football, baseball, cross country and just decided that wrestling isn't their only thing.

[benaskren]

I don't think there are an easy fixes for WI to place higher in the freestyle portion of Fargo, it will take time. 

That being said I think we are on the upswing(and hopefully that upswing will be held.) in addition to 5 cadet AA finishes WI had 5 wrestlers lose in the blood round.  If WI gets a few more wins in that round I think it is a very solid showing. 

IA, MN and IL are among the top tier of wrestling states and for my wrestling lifetime have had more success at this level than WI with the exception of a few years. 

That being said you know we(AWA) will hold up our end of the bargain in trying to prepare WI athletes for success on the brightest stage in HS wrestling.  I'm already looking forward to and preparing for Fargo next year.

[bulldog]

maydeson - If I ran the numbers right and deduped correctly there were 6 competitors from Kaukauana and 6 from Stoughton at Fargo. I am not sure if your competitors numbers are correct. I get 127 Wisconsin competitors at Fargo this year - 56 Cadets and 71 Juniors. I did not go look at other state to see how they compared. And I did not count the Women's competitors - that would probably add another 20-25 Wisconsin competitors.

Did I miscount or did you only count one style?

Also...if my numbers are correct...in 2015 Wisconsin had 117 competitors at Fargo - 57 Cadets and 60 Juniors...

And 72 of the 2016 Fargo Competitors from Wisconsin did not compete at Fargo last year - 46 cadets and 26 Juniors.

Oh...and in 2015 Hudson had 7 competitors at Fargo...Stoughton, Kaukauna and Mukwonago each had 4

Let me know if you see an error in my counts. Thanks

[woody53]

I agree the numbers are lower then what is probably nesseasry for WI to contend with our neighbors, however there were states with less wrestlers then WI and they were more competitive.
I looked up the credentials of the MN coaching staff and they are very impressive. Dan Chandler is a7x USA coach of the year, head coach of the Greco Olympic team in 2000 and the Asst coach in 2012. That may inspire more kids in MN to go out.

Careful Getyour. Sounds like you do not think our Coaches measure up ?