I think it's time...

[Ghetto]

Anyone that thinks the WWF does not do what's best for kids is mistaken. If you don't agree with it, get involved. Bottom line, we all have to work within the systems and rules we have. From there we have to continually make improvements. Change is tough with so many strong minded people. Other states wish they had the Wisconsin system.

Honest questions - is it safe to assume that the majority of coaches don't believe JHI is in the best interest of the kids?  Or is JHI not even a topic of discussion?

Thanks.

I think we are slow to change. Would JHI help? I'm not sure. Minnesota has it and they still struggle to fill weights.

I really don't get the resistance to going to 12 weights. We don't fill 14 weights for the majority of teams. It's that simple. I think it's the same thing. Coaches don't want to change.

[Barou]

Anyone that thinks the WWF does not do what's best for kids is mistaken. If you don't agree with it, get involved. Bottom line, we all have to work within the systems and rules we have. From there we have to continually make improvements. Change is tough with so many strong minded people. Other states wish they had the Wisconsin system.

Honest questions - is it safe to assume that the majority of coaches don't believe JHI is in the best interest of the kids?  Or is JHI not even a topic of discussion?

Thanks.

I don't think JHI inclusion is a necessity. For some kids they could for sure handle varsity wrestling but then you have a bunch that couldn't.  I feel like we are alright without JHI, but would like there to be a better more consistent MS season across the state.

To be clear though JHI isn't just a "varsity" thing. 

[aarons23]

I really don't get the resistance to going to 12 weights. We don't fill 14 weights for the majority of teams. It's that simple. I think it's the same thing. Coaches don't want to change.
[/quote]

Let me help you with this.....cutting weight classes causes a bigger discrepancies in weights, causing even more weight cutting.  More weight cutting is bad anyway you look at it.  You do realize in the past kids have died cutting weight.  A person I know a person in WIAA that says for that reason alone it will never happen.  Besides the fact that unless your team gets really lucky and are spread out enough in weight to not also knock someone out of your line up....it may hurt you more than help you.  It's sad we spend so many pages on how to reduce the sport instead of how to grow the sport.

[wrastle63]

Completely agree with aarons. I don't even think it would help the bottom teams be more competitive because they would just wrestle against even tougher kids. Some of the weaker kids would get bumped out. It also reduces opportunities for our kids. According to Ghetto there were 332 teams so if you cut 2 weight classes that is possibly 664 kids who wouldn't have a spot. Obviously some of those are open weight classes, but just think if even half are filled. 332 kids lose an opportunity!!!

[Ghetto]

I really don't get the resistance to going to 12 weights. We don't fill 14 weights for the majority of teams. It's that simple. I think it's the same thing. Coaches don't want to change.

Let me help you with this.....cutting weight classes causes a bigger discrepancies in weights, causing even more weight cutting.  More weight cutting is bad anyway you look at it.  You do realize in the past kids have died cutting weight.  A person I know a person in WIAA that says for that reason alone it will never happen.  Besides the fact that unless your team gets really lucky and are spread out enough in weight to not also knock someone out of your line up....it may hurt you more than help you.  It's sad we spend so many pages on how to reduce the sport instead of how to grow the sport.
[/quote]

1. The weights are arbitrary and do not follow what the majority of kids wrestling weigh.
2. It's not necessarily true that more kids would have to cut weight
3. If the national federation changes, the WIAA will jump right on board
4. It may hurt in some years
5. Reducing weight classes doesn't reduce our sport. We had 12 and our sport had far more participation

[Ghetto]

Completely agree with aarons. I don't even think it would help the bottom teams be more competitive because they would just wrestle against even tougher kids. Some of the weaker kids would get bumped out. It also reduces opportunities for our kids. According to Ghetto there were 332 teams so if you cut 2 weight classes that is possibly 664 kids who wouldn't have a spot. Obviously some of those are open weight classes, but just think if even half are filled. 332 kids lose an opportunity!!!

I agree that the bottom teams wouldn't be helped. I'll do some more research on how many kids were on each regional roster in 2017.

If all 332 teams had 14 kids, I wouldn't be advocating for reducing weights.

[Barou]

Completely agree with aarons. I don't even think it would help the bottom teams be more competitive because they would just wrestle against even tougher kids. Some of the weaker kids would get bumped out. It also reduces opportunities for our kids. According to Ghetto there were 332 teams so if you cut 2 weight classes that is possibly 664 kids who wouldn't have a spot. Obviously some of those are open weight classes, but just think if even half are filled. 332 kids lose an opportunity!!!

So you're concerned with reducing opportunities but not in favor of JHI?

[Ghetto]

More numbers:

7737 kids bodyfatted before the season
If we would have had 12 weights this year, 179 kids wouldn't have had a spot at regionals. 91 in D1, 54 in D2, and 34 in D3. That means that 2.3% of the wrestlers in Wisconsin would be effected.

In 2017, if there were 12 weights, on straight numbers, double the amount of teams would have had a full lineup.

37 teams in D1 had 14 kids     17 had 13
21 teams in D2 had 14 kids     12 had 13
12 teams in D3 had 14 kids     10 had 13

[aarons23]

More numbers:

7737 kids bodyfatted before the season
If we would have had 12 weights this year, 179 kids wouldn't have had a spot at regionals. 91 in D1, 54 in D2, and 34 in D3. That means that 2.3% of the wrestlers in Wisconsin would be effected.

In 2017, if there were 12 weights, on straight numbers, double the amount of teams would have had a full lineup.

37 teams in D1 had 14 kids     17 had 13
21 teams in D2 had 14 kids     12 had 13
12 teams in D3 had 14 kids     10 had 13

Now your just throwing numbers out there to try to weight your arguement even though your numbers are basically a guess....your numbers don't take into account those who would be to small to go up, too big to down and those teams that are bunched up around same weight.....your 2.3% is probably pretty low.  Even if it was close....your still punishing those teams who can fill the classes, spreading the weights across more and creating more weight cutting ( don't fool yourself in thinking that it won't) 

[Coach V]

JHI is not being discussed. If it doesn't align with the national federation we will not do it. WIAA wants a vote on national issues. that's why we have 1.5% now.

[Barou]

JHI is not being discussed. If it doesn't align with the national federation we will not do it. WIAA wants a vote on national issues. that's why we have 1.5% now.

From what I understand states like MN, the Dakotas, NY (8TH), etc that have JHI are in alignment with the national federation.  We know the WIAA doesn't pivot from the national federation with anything.  The last I understand it JHI will not be in violation with the national federation.  In '07 the Minnesota Wrestling Coaches Association came up with a proposal to go from 14 to 12 weight classes which would not align with the national federation (Minnesota wrestling is very forward thinking).  When I was following the story at the time I don't recall where there was a concern with the proposal's position with the national federation.  I find it hard to believe there would be such a concern if there was already a violation with JHI.  

Here's an article from '07.  Fits into this thread pretty well.

http://www.southernminn.com/northfield_news/archives/article_f4521a29-e88e-5385-b61a-14e179b1f024.html

[Ghetto]

Those aren't guesses. I went through every regional in the state and looked at how many kids each team had at regionals. I also do know for fact that there were 7737 kids who fatted.


This formatting will come out jacked up, but here is how it matches up.

                D1     D2     D3
14 kids       37     21      12
13 kids       17     12      9
12 kids       14      8       9
11 kids       12     11      8
10 kids       14     15      10
9 kids          8       7       12
8 kids          7       6       7
7 kids          5      11      10
6 kids          5       4       10
5 kids          3       2        4
4 kids          0       2        5
3 kids          2       2        3
2 kids          1       0        3
1 kid           0       0        0

The only way that there would be more weight cutting would mean that the 7% bodyfat test is being cheated. Does it happen, of course it does.

[aarons23]

JHI has nothing to do with the national federation.

[aarons23]

Those aren't guesses. I went through every regional in the state and looked at how many kids each team had at regionals. I also do know for fact that there were 7737 kids who fatted.


This formatting will come out jacked up, but here is how it matches up.

                D1     D2     D3
14 kids       37     21      12
13 kids       17     12      9
12 kids       14      8       9
11 kids       12     11      8
10 kids       14     15      10
9 kids          8       7       12
8 kids          7       6       7
7 kids          5      11      10
6 kids          5       4       10
5 kids          3       2        4
4 kids          0       2        5
3 kids          2       2        3
2 kids          1       0        3
1 kid           0       0        0

The only way that there would be more weight cutting would mean that the 7% bodyfat test is being cheated. Does it happen, of course it does.

they are guesses because you have no idea how it will effect each individual team and can not determine how many can go , up down or get eliminated. Again your fooling yourself if you think spreading weight classes will not create more weight cutting.

[wrastle63]

I think it is a horrible idea. Just for fun though what would your weight classes be?