Wisconsin Wrestling Challenge Series 2015

[WINfan]

I took the following from this website.  Please read and then tell me if a wrestler that was one point away from going to the state tournament a year ago should have been wrestling in this series.  This particular wrestler hasnt wrestled all year so im assuming he is coming back from injury or code violation.

Who should be entered in the Wisconsin Wrestling Challenge Series?

Questions have been asked regarding who can or should enter the Wisconsin Wrestling Challenge Series (WWCS).
There will be some gray area and ambiguity involved as it is impossible to set a specific standard or rule that will cover every individual situation.
Here are some thoughts and questions coaches need to ask themselves and think about in deciding whether to enter an individual into the WWCS.

1) Coaches are asked to use discretion and common sense in choosing to enter individuals in this 'sub-varsity' event.
-A coach should be able to say his conscience is clear regarding every wrestler entered in the WWCS from his team.

2) The event is considered 'sub-varsity' level.
-Ask yourself if this wrestler is a 'sub-varsity' level wrestler.
-If the wrestler has been on the varsity or belonged on the varsity this year, should he enter this event?
-A 'varsity' wrestler should not be entered in this tournament.
-This tournament should not be used by a varsity wrestler to fill in for a 'missed' varsity tournament opportunity.
-This event is meant for high school wrestlers who are not regularly varsity wrestlers.

[imnofish]

Hard to tell, because we don't have all the details.  Reportedly, the kid has not wrestled this year, so he's not currently a varsity kid.  We don't know why he didn't wrestle.  Could be something serious like a bad injury, a severe illness, etc., for all we know.  If he hasn't wrestled all year, then it's unlikely that he is wrestling at his best.  I think the point is that the kid's status this year is the determining factor and the coach is entrusted to evaluate that.  Second guessing, on the basis of assumptions, isn't going to solve anything at this point.  If you do have enough information to legitimately question the kid's involvement in the tourney, is this forum really the most appropriate and productive place to bring it up?  Not trying to be mean about it, but your description probably just identified him to a lot of people from your region and cast his involvement in a bad light.  Is that really fair?

[aarons23]

This was one complaint I heard from several coaches.  There needs to be a clear cut rule for who is eligible to compete in this.  I was told one kid competed at cheesehead last year and the JV regional this year.  I know of another that missed two varsity tourneys so they wrestled him in this.  By the current rules they did nothing wrong.... But I don't think it's right.

Talking with one coach on Sunday he was disappointed in that if your wrestler lost first round the best they could do is fifth....thought maybe to many wrestlers created this problem.  He wasn't sure he would support it next year.  I suggested the JV tourney should start in conference as a conference meet and then advance the top two.  Thus could create more local interest and help eliminate some cost and hopefully bring the numbers down at the regional so they could actually wrestle back to second or third.

For the most I heard very posative responses. Great job of getting this together and hopefully we can work to better it in the future.

[joeski]

Like I said last week, I think this is an awesome event for the sub-varsity level wrestlers. I have 2 sons wrestling right now. A freshman, and a junior. First the freshman. He was in a 24 man, unseeded random draw at Sauk. When I saw you had to make the semis to have a chance to advance, I was a little disappointed. He won twice, lost in the quarters to the eventual champ, won two more, and finished 5.5 place, his words.
Because he had reached his max matches, he could not wrestle the placement match. To him, he feels he could have finished second. We will never know. Hopefully the event continues, and someone smarter than me will be able to make the adjustments to make the event even better.
My older son was 19-15 last year on varsity at 106. He fat tested MWW of 115, with permission this year. He has filled in at 132, 126 while the varsity wrestler recovers from injury. And at 120 while the varsity wrestler at that spot was getting down to weight. If he had not still been filling in at 126, he would have been in the reg event on Sat. I'm sure someone would have been upset about that, but the level of sub-varsity is such a wide margin, even from team to team, there will always be some kids that people don't think should be at this event. To me, if your not on varsity, your sub-varsity level.
Tom, I do have some ideas for the future. But being a bad typer, this took me a half hour to type. So you could always message me, and I would send you my phone number if you ever want to talk. Hope any of this made sense.

[WINfan]

OMG Fish!!!! are you serious right now!  I never even used the kids name, I never used the kids team name, heck i didnt even say what sectional he placed in.  This is EXACTLY what the forum is used for, to generate some debate.  I never implied that i agree or disagree, i simply stated the rules that were written and asked a question.   

Sorry if i hurt your feelings.

[missinghome]

I think that this tournament is awesome. What a great step in the right direction to help build wrestling. Who ever has put this all together give yourself a hand. I am sure it has taken a lot of work. My suggestion is this. As far as kids that should or should not wrestle in this. Let that police itself. The more of a big deal you make about it and the more rules you "try" to create, the more it will become watered down, and the more you will turn off the kids who should be wrestling in this. The truth is not ever kid is a state champion type wrestler. No matter what they do. God makes everybody different. So for the kids that aren't, give them there do. They deserve it as well. And for the ones that should not be there, you will never completely stop that. You are always going to have that coach, that parent, that kid. It happens in youth all the time. Are you a beginner, average, good or excellent? I am excited to watch this grow and see the change it will make on WI wrestling.   

[imnofish]

OMG Fish!!!! are you serious right now!  I never even used the kids name, I never used the kids team name, heck i didnt even say what sectional he placed in.  This is EXACTLY what the forum is used for, to generate some debate.  I never implied that i agree or disagree, i simply stated the rules that were written and asked a question.   

Sorry if i hurt your feelings.

You didn't hurt my feelings at all, but (as posters) we do have a responsibility to the kids who wrestle.  My point is that any such issues should be reported to the people running this series, if we feel there is a legitimate issue.  Apparently, I hurt your feelings, though.  Sorry if that is the case. 

[WINfan]

Lol, no you didnt hurt my feelings,  i was just in shock as i when i posted i was trying to avoid that exact issue you mentioned.  A poster a few weeks ago started the thread "what has happen to this forum."  Part of what happen is people are afraid to post something and have people like you come in and try to discredit an honest conversation that had no harmful intent.

Btw, I think activity has been up since that poster made that topic.

[imnofish]

Lol, no you didnt hurt my feelings,  i was just in shock as i when i posted i was trying to avoid that exact issue you mentioned.  A poster a few weeks ago started the thread "what has happen to this forum."  Part of what happen is people are afraid to post something and have people like you come in and try to discredit an honest conversation that had no harmful intent.

Btw, I think activity has been up since that poster made that topic.

Not trying to cause a problem; just concerned about the kids.  Also looking at what might be most effective in addressing such situations.  IMO, going directly to those with the most authority will have the greatest impact.  I do appreciate your concerns, though.

[Troy Grindle]

I was in sauk on Saturday and they did an incredible job hosting it.  I do hope that it truly was a one a done year scenario for other teams competing outside their regional like has been said previously on here.  107 extra kids at the sauk regional from teams that shouldn't have been there.  17 of them took qualifying spots away from kids who were at their correctly assigned regional.  I understand why it happened this way, but it absolutely can't happen in the future under any circumstances.  Every place winner at 113 was from a different school that weren't supposed to be at this regional.  Other than that it was an awesome experience that I know my wrestlers got a lot out of.

As far as not being able to wrestle back to 3rd if you lose early.  Yes that sucks.  Maybe next year have the coaches can rank their kids on a 1-4 scale just to try and separate the better kids.

I really didn't see any "hammers" at sauk on Friday that shouldn't have been there.  I think it helps to have it on a busy weekend of wrestling with both varsity and jv competing because it forces a coaches hand on where to send his varsity starter that missed a couple of tournaments early in the year and could make them up by wrestling in this.

Thanks for the WWCA for making this happen and I hope that it continues in the future.

[MantyWrestler]

I think this is a great idea but it should not be used as a get back in shape tournament. The purpose is to help the sport maintain lesser wrestlers and give them something to train for. Now you may have a stud that never will see the mat because he has a couple great wrestlers in front of him. That to me is fine, get him out there but to send out a varsity wrestler to get back in wrestling shape is not what this is for.

I propose we add a rule that if you compete in the WWCA challenge, you CAN wrestle in regionals and will count toward their team's score if your team needs a wrestler at that weight class but can NOT advance to individual sectionals.

Varsity wrestlers already have their championship series.

[imnofish]

Easy to fix.  If a kid advances to the next level, he/she is disqualified from any individual competition in the WIAA tournament series.  They could still be used in the team tournament series, though.  What do you guys think?

[Ghetto]

Our kid is going to the Challenge Series state, and will wrestle in the regional. He is not our varsity kid, because he fat tested to 120 and can't beat our 120 pounder.

Funny how we complain about too much government but we want rules for everything. Let coaches go at their discretion. Are there instances where there are extremely good kids not wrestling varsity? Yes. There are kids behind state champs. They aren't varsity. They probably could wrestle varsity in other places. They happen to be behind a kid, which makes them not varsity.

[foose4]

Easy to fix.  If a kid advances to the next level, he/she is disqualified from any individual competition in the WIAA tournament series.  They could still be used in the team tournament series, though.  What do you guys think?

If you do this, I would imagine a lot of the better kids may not wrestle in it then.  Injury happens at conference tournament to the kid you back up and wrestle off.....but you can't go because you wrestled in the challenge series.  I don't know if a good kid would think it's worth the risk of having to sit out the tournament to wrestle in this.  Our team had some kids not wrestle in it and take an alternate spot at a varsity tournament instead already.  Too many other JV tournaments out there to go to if you know you give up your chance to go to regionals.  Just my two cents.

Really a mute point though as the WIAA is not going to make any rule like that anyway.

[imnofish]

Ghetto makes a good point.  In some programs, you have next year's state finalist sitting behind this year's state finalist.  Not fair to keep that kid from competing at the JV level, just because he's good.