Support for JH inclusion?

[Handles II]

boo, LG,  if there are MS programs with only 10 kids, why not just blend them in with the HS? In my school there is no MS program. Ditto almost all of the A and AA schools (Div 2 and 3 to you) and quite a few AAA (big) schools. No MS program is needed, the guys who would be coaching MS are with the JV/V as are the kids.  This simply streamlines everything. Everyone rides the same bus to the same dual that creates a bond. Anyone not on Var wrestles JV. All coaches are careful matching them up so beginners don't get completely discouraged by a loss, I have the older JV kids help out a beginner after a match. That creates a bond.
Parents can all come to one location and watch everyone on the team wrestle, not just 9-12 or 6-7. I think this is important. The older parents see and comment on the younger kids to their parents and vice versa. That helps create a bond.
If anything, from a coaching standpoint, that's what I see with JHI. We have more kids, parents, and coaches all having the opportunity to be together and get to know each other for a longer period of time without some sort of artificial barrier (MS Program) blocking all of that unity.
Are MN teams and wrestlers better? Debatable, I think the elite kids are pretty darn even. I think some programs are pretty darn even. But I would say if you take the top 10 teams from each division and wrestled them, MN would come out on top in the number of wins in each division. I also belive you could extend that down to the next 30 teams in each division and there would be similar results. Some of those wins would be MN 7th and 8th graders beating WI 9-12th graders, while the best WI 7th-8th graders, who could make a difference, only got to sit and watch.

If I was a coach in Wi right now and it was logistically possible in my school district, I would have as many if not all, the MS kids practicing with us at least 3x per week. If you aren't, and especially if you are a struggling program, you are missing the boat on a great opportunity for you and your kids.

[littleguy301]

your booing me Handles?

Just stating if you take X amount of kids and put them into the high school what do you do with the other kids maybe 10 of them.

Not sure as to where your from but I know in my area you get 15 kids in a wrestling room and that is about it for the room. Some of the wrestling rooms are very, very small to say the least.

Just talking space as to where we could put the wrestlers.

In our school if you combine the middle and high school we would have close to 50 of them and I know there wouldnt be much room at all for all of them.

[bigoil]

That's funny LG, pretty sure that he was addressing boowrestle and you.

[imnofish]

your booing me Handles?

Just stating if you take X amount of kids and put them into the high school what do you do with the other kids maybe 10 of them.

Not sure as to where your from but I know in my area you get 15 kids in a wrestling room and that is about it for the room. Some of the wrestling rooms are very, very small to say the least.

Just talking space as to where we could put the wrestlers.

In our school if you combine the middle and high school we would have close to 50 of them and I know there wouldnt be much room at all for all of them.

I'm sure the basketball team will trade places, in order to accommodate your needs.   

[Handles II]

That's a good problem to have LG. Coaches in MN have the same issues. Be creative. Or use your size limitations issue to try to get a new wrestling room built. I often have to laugh when the number of kids out for the program is used as a reason to not have JHI. What if the 9-12 program got hot and there were an equal number of HS kids? Would the coach say "no, we can't practice because there are too many of you?

[littleguy301]

Handles, I have no idea were you are from. I have stated I am not against JHI but I am pointing out issues that need to be address and talked about with schools, WIAA officials and in this day and age building a new wrestling room on the school budgets, in Wisconsin? I think you would know that answer.

What does Minnesota do with the kids that are k-6th grade? Does the school have a program for those kids also? What do they do in that program.

[Handles II]

Here's the deal LG. In MN each school can decide for themselves what they want to do with JHI. How's that for being able to solve problems? Some just bring up a few 8th graders, some ditch their middle school program, some don't have room so they do split practices or create groups.And remember, it isn't just wrestling that works out it's own methods for JHI, it's all sports so let's not simply focus on wrestling.
The point is that it's ok to do, and that gives each program options that fit them the best.

As for youth programs most go k-6, though 7-8 can join them after the regular season to compete in youth regionals and state. If a 7th or 8th does compete in a youth tournament during the regular season, those matches count towards their 36 match limit for JV/Var.

[littleguy301]

How many states have JHI?

[Jimmy]

Minnesota, Kentucky , South Dakota , I'm guessing there is more but those are the three I know of for sure.

[Handles II]

add North Dakota and New York. Other states are looking into it, or at least coaches/fans are.
Nationwide we are seeing club teams taking over and school programs failing especially at the youth/ms levels because parents feel the workouts, workout partners, and competition is better for little johnny or susie. JHI allows those young elites to compete against kids older and possibly better. It also allows them to stay with their school and peer group. win/win.

[imnofish]

Sounds like American amateur athletics is moving gradually closer to the European model.  I wonder how long it will take for us to end up there.

[MNbadger]

I agree Fish, I have said the same thing for years.  In fact, at lunch today three of us were discussing this very subject.
We are adding back middle school sports in my junior high (out of retirement to coaching again!).  They are bringing back wrestling, track, soccer, and tennis.  The others like BB and VB tended to have the kids opt for the club teams instead.

[2pointTakedown]

I grew up in MN in the 80's and the most competitive spot on the team was always 98 varsity. We would have 7-8 kids in our town of 1500 compete for that spot. I earned that spot in 8th grade and although I was only 20-12 on the year, it gave me some groundwork to get better and we were stronger as a team from 7th-12th all working together.

I see now many schools in MN have k-6 team tourneys and learn teamwork a young age. I don't see that often in Wisconsin.

I really see that MN has improved greatly. I believe it has alot to do with the two different youth state progams they run too also and that they start in November in the youth ages.

[imnofish]

I agree Fish, I have said the same thing for years.  In fact, at lunch today three of us were discussing this very subject.
We are adding back middle school sports in my junior high (out of retirement to coaching again!).  They are bringing back wrestling, track, soccer, and tennis.  The others like BB and VB tended to have the kids opt for the club teams instead.

Congrats on getting "back in the saddle again!"    I remember you mentioning that at the Wisconsin vs Minnesota meet. 

[MNbadger]

Yes, It will be fun coaching MS again.  The thing I like about it most is that they grow the most and learn the most during MS.  I'll be coaching girl's soccer and possibly boy's tennis too.