Support for JH inclusion?

[littleguy301]

Does MN have JH inclusion for all sports?

Pretty sure they do.

[Handles II]

Does MN have JH inclusion for all sports?

Pretty sure they do.

Yes. MN for all sports. Not every school uses JHI though. Their option.

[cooch]

Still vote 8th grade only. For all sports.

I do like this addition to the inclusion rule.  Not saying it would be a deal breaker for me.

In a sport where your school has a Freshman team an eight grader must make JV or Varsity you can not take a Freshman's spot on the Freshman team.

[MNbadger]

"In a sport where your school has a Freshman team an eight grader must make JV or Varsity you can not take a Freshman's spot on the Freshman team."

There are many schools that do this.  Others let the chips fall where they may. 

The fears about 7th and 8th graders and inclusion are unfounded.  I don't understand the problem with those who don't want this.
the ones who aren't ready stay in their middle school/junior high program.  Those that can and want to compete at the high school level can. 
All the worries that people express on here are nearly non-existent in MN.  There are just as many inexperienced upper classmen on the mat as 7th and 8th graders.  In fact, I would argue more as most often a 7th or 8th grader is a kid who has been wrestling which is why they are good enough.

[Mat Warrior]

I just read earlier this week of a 9 year old girl that is averaging over 14 points a game on the high school team. She put up 63 points on her boys AAU team.

Found it. http://msn.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/jaden-newman-9-years-old-girls-varsity-basketball-star-orlando-63-points-one-game-15-points-average-012014

[imnofish]

If a kid is good enough, he/she can outperform a competitor who is significantly older.  Several decades ago, I remember watching my brother win a city wrestling championship as a 1st grader, by defeating a 6th grader in the finals.  I also remember watching a 4th grader from my father's program dominate a regional bracket of 8th graders.  When our daughter was in 4th grade, I watched her dominate an 8th grade male track star in a mile race.  Some kids are just ready earlier than others.

[FinalWord]

I have rarely, if ever, noticed a 7th or 8th grader, that competes in MN with a losing record. Most are upper level competitors. High end, Outstanding individuals. That would not be the case in WI. Far too many coaches would "fill" their line up with MS wrestlers whether to actually compete or merely take a forfeit. In other sports; ie GBB, the athlete must be obviously better than her fellow upper-class team mates in order to play art a varsity level. Coming from Ellsworth I can honestly say that in 40+ years we have had no more than 1 or 2 MS age wrestlers that could have contributed on the varsity level .

[imnofish]

I have rarely, if ever, noticed a 7th or 8th grader, that competes in MN with a losing record. Most are upper level competitors. High end, Outstanding individuals. That would not be the case in WI. Far too many coaches would "fill" their line up with MS wrestlers whether to actually compete or merely take a forfeit. In other sports; ie GBB, the athlete must be obviously better than her fellow upper-class team mates in order to play art a varsity level. Coming from Ellsworth I can honestly say that in 40+ years we have had no more than 1 or 2 MS age wrestlers that could have contributed on the varsity level .

I get your point.  I wonder how it went in Minnesota, when this was first adopted.  That might give us some guidance in how to successfully implement it in a way that actually benefits the kids.

[MNbadger]

You could say that far too many coaches fill their line up with upper classmen who fulfill the same end.  
The concern is the same but overlooked when it is a 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th grade wrestler.
We "fill" our lineups with differing levels of ability all the time. 

[cooch]

"In a sport where your school has a Freshman team an eight grader must make JV or Varsity you can not take a Freshman's spot on the Freshman team."

There are many schools that do this.  Others let the chips fall where they may. 

The fears about 7th and 8th graders and inclusion are unfounded.  I don't understand the problem with those who don't want this.
the ones who aren't ready stay in their middle school/junior high program.  Those that can and want to compete at the high school level can. 
All the worries that people express on here are nearly non-existent in MN.  There are just as many inexperienced upper classmen on the mat as 7th and 8th graders.  In fact, I would argue more as most often a 7th or 8th grader is a kid who has been wrestling which is why they are good enough.

In my opinion the fear is it will empty out the middle school programs and everyone will just bump there kids to high school. 

I am starting to feel it will do the opposite and allow the inexperienced middle school kids gain experience against like opponents and the excellent kids will move up and not be bored with middle school.

[bigoil]

I have rarely, if ever, noticed a 7th or 8th grader, that competes in MN with a losing record. Most are upper level competitors. High end, Outstanding individuals. That would not be the case in WI. Far too many coaches would "fill" their line up with MS wrestlers whether to actually compete or merely take a forfeit. In other sports; ie GBB, the athlete must be obviously better than her fellow upper-class team mates in order to play art a varsity level. Coming from Ellsworth I can honestly say that in 40+ years we have had no more than 1 or 2 MS age wrestlers that could have contributed on the varsity level .

I think there are plenty of talented kids that can fill roles and just like the 4th grader there are exceptions beyond HS at all levels, maybe not in Ellsworth or Rapids but I think there is a better chance of abuse. I could be wrong as it does seem to work at our neighbor to the West.

MNBadger, there is a difference between throwing a Junior to the wolves than a freshman or 7th grader.

[MNbadger]

"I am starting to feel it will do the opposite and allow the inexperienced middle school kids gain experience against like opponents and the excellent kids will move up and not be bored with middle school."

Yes!  It makes it better for EVERYONE.

[Handles II]

I have rarely, if ever, noticed a 7th or 8th grader, that competes in MN with a losing record. Most are upper level competitors. High end, Outstanding individuals. That would not be the case in WI. Far too many coaches would "fill" their line up with MS wrestlers whether to actually compete or merely take a forfeit. In other sports; ie GBB, the athlete must be obviously better than her fellow upper-class team mates in order to play art a varsity level. Coming from Ellsworth I can honestly say that in 40+ years we have had no more than 1 or 2 MS age wrestlers that could have contributed on the varsity level .

I disagree, there are plenty of kids in Mn that have losing records, grades 7-12. I've worked at k-8 tournaments in WI and have seen plenty of 7-8 kids that could contribute and win in WI. I do fear that the emphasis on losing and winning is the issue when it shouldn't be. I have a 12th grader that has wrestled since kindergarten and he has 5 wins on the year and he is a stud in practice and summer camps. Mentally it isn't there for him. I'm noticing it is affecting him in other ways beyond the mat. I brought it up to his parents, we have decided to hold him out of competition for awhile. He is ok with the decision, somewhat relieved.
JHI or not, wins or losses, Coaches and parents need to pay attention to their wrestlers and do what is best for them.
In the end however JHI can add so much more than just some kids in a varsity line up.

[FinalWord]

I disagree, there are plenty of kids in Mn that have losing records, grades 7-12

Perhaps you missed one of my points. I should have underlined 7th and 8th graders that participate at the varsity level in wrestling that seldom have, or almost never have a losing record. If they're not exceptional they don't participate.

[littleguy301]

I disagree, there are plenty of kids in Mn that have losing records, grades 7-12

Perhaps you missed one of my points. I should have underlined 7th and 8th graders that participate at the varsity level in wrestling that seldom have, or almost never have a losing record. If they're not exceptional they don't participate.

I was looking at your post times and werent you suppose to be working at the middle school tournments?

In Minnesota I have seen quite afew 7th and 8th graders that do NOT make the varisity and compete in the middle school.

I will also say that those that do compete in high school as a middle schooler are probably some serious studs to say the least. Men amoung  boys would be my saying.

In the past decade I have seen some middle schoolers that would compete well at the high school level but also most of them would be in the lighter weights. I have seen a couple of heavier weigh guys that could have competed but being 500 would be the extent of it.

I think Ellsworth has had a few more than just 1 or 2 but I also will not say more than a half dozen. You should ask you buddy the legendary middle school coach that now hides his ID as a ref I think he would know some stuff also.