Support for JH inclusion?

MNbadger · January 21, 2014, 09:37:40 PM

195 pounds
1. Gable Steveson, Apple Valley (3) 8
2. Rylee Streifel, Prior Lake (2) 11
3. Justin Cumberbatch, Alexandria (8) 11
4. Jacob Briggs, Saint Michael-Albertville (7) 11
5. Nick Pegelow, Eastview (3) 12
6. Tristyn Hanson, Lakeville North (2) 11
7. Glenn Meyers, Blaine (7) 12
8. Dakota Johnson, Cambridge-Isanti (7) 12
9. Daryale Harris, Hastings (1) 12
10. Julius Ogunti, Park Center (5) 12

Should this 8th grader be wrestling middle schoolers? (he is wrestling up a weight too as he can't beat his brother)

littleguy301 · January 21, 2014, 09:43:50 PM

He should probably not be wrestling in JR high. This kid is very very good to say the least. Cannt beat his brother but I would beat it wouldnt be that bad of a match. I would take a guess and say that families house probably has some broken chairs

Where did they transfer from?

MNbadger · January 21, 2014, 09:58:57 PM

I thnk it was Indiana but don't remember off the top of my head.

Chedd · January 21, 2014, 10:05:37 PM

Plenty of high schoolers have proven they can compete with collegiate wrestlers. Is that support for HS inclusion in college wrestling?

Harris · January 21, 2014, 10:13:14 PM

Quote from: Chedd on January 21, 2014, 10:05:37 PM
Plenty of high schoolers have proven they can compete with collegiate wrestlers. Is that support for HS inclusion in college wrestling?

Touche'

MNbadger · January 21, 2014, 10:40:22 PM

Not really a touche'.
Until recently many opens allowed this. I assume it stopped partly as it was tough on some egos.
You also are comparing two different situations.... one involves mostly adults mixing in competition with minors, the other doesn't.

bigoil · January 22, 2014, 07:26:04 AM

Quote from: Chedd on January 21, 2014, 10:05:37 PM
Plenty of high schoolers have proven they can compete with collegiate wrestlers. Is that support for HS inclusion in college wrestling?
[/quote
Heck we didn't use to allow freshman in college to compete. Now we want 7th graders?

I see an abuse of inexperienced freshman and sophomores filling spots.

MNbadger · January 22, 2014, 10:46:01 AM

Yes, I know this and that is my point.

MNbadger · January 22, 2014, 10:46:17 AM

Howavi, where do you see this abuse? I see it with juniors and seniors some places but I don't see it as abuse.
Should we hold wrestlers out until we think they can win their weight class at state? It is up the the coach to determine what is ok.
I had a ninth grader once who started the season 2-0 and he went with no more wins the rest of the season. I asked him every week if he was still happy wrestling varsity. He was and stuck it out. It is an individual thing.
would you have thought it good for Schlatter or Dake to not wrestle as freshman? Even when red shirting they compete with all the other wrestlers.
When you have 7-8 inclusion everyone ends up in the right place competition-wise. I really don't think it is good for anyone to have an advanced 7th or 8th grader crushing all his junior high opponents. It doesn't help him and it doesn't really help his opponents.
Earlier many were complaining about forfeits and how it doesn't hurt a wrestler to get crushed by let's say a returning state champ.
Again, it is always up to the coach and the wrestler.
You can look to the west and you don't see any death and destruction of 7th and 8th grade wrestlers in MN.

ramjet · January 22, 2014, 11:20:29 AM

Here is the thing that everyone seems to forget; AGE

He may be........ from an age standpoint, a freshman?

Look at the number of State Champions or even Top 5 in Wisconsin that are actually 19......

Any teacher will tell you most 8th graders leave for the summer and when they come back you may not even recognize them because the physical changes the exception is the kids help back and are older.

We had two one year that were both just under the cut off for 19 to be able to wrestle the difference in physical maturity was very evident. Both placed at State but were a full two years older than anyone in the room that year.

MNbadger · January 22, 2014, 11:47:09 AM

Yep, and some are young for their grade too, my kids were/are. My kids were a year younger than most the others they competed with.

bigoil · January 22, 2014, 11:50:29 AM

Quote from: MNbadger on January 22, 2014, 10:46:17 AM
Howavi, where do you see this abuse? I see it with juniors and seniors some places but I don't see it as abuse.
Should we hold wrestlers out until we think they can win their weight class at state? It is up the the coach to determine what is ok.
I had a ninth grader once who started the season 2-0 and he went with no more wins the rest of the season. I asked him every week if he was still happy wrestling varsity. He was and stuck it out. It is an individual thing.
would you have thought it good for Schlatter or Dake to not wrestle as freshman? Even when red shirting they compete with all the other wrestlers.
When you have 7-8 inclusion everyone ends up in the right place competition-wise. I really don't think it is good for anyone to have an advanced 7th or 8th grader crushing all his junior high opponents. It doesn't help him and it doesn't really help his opponents.
Earlier many were complaining about forfeits and how it doesn't hurt a wrestler to get crushed by let's say a returning state champ.
Again, it is always up to the coach and the wrestler.
You can look to the west and you don't see any death and destruction of 7th and 8th grade wrestlers in MN.

Kids that would have been on a freshmen or jv squad when we were in HS are now filling a spot on varsity because they are the right size.

MNbadger · January 22, 2014, 12:34:02 PM

This has happened forever. It happened when was in high school (early to mid 70s) and before and since. It isn't just freshman and sophomores. I had years where I coached and we weren't as tough as other years. Some pretty inexperienced juniors and seniors end up in the same situation.

bigoil · January 22, 2014, 12:37:14 PM

Quote from: MNbadger on January 22, 2014, 12:34:02 PM
This has happened forever. It happened when was in high school (early to mid 70s) and before and since. It isn't just freshman and sophomores. I had years where I coached and we weren't as tough as other years. Some pretty inexperienced juniors and seniors end up in the same situation.

I agree but you aren't going to lose them because of maturity, you will lose them because they are going to graduate. throwing a 12 year old out there to the wolves is bad for the sport.

Now I realize not all coaches will do that but more often than not, I see it. There are many kids that could compete, obviously they do in MN. Dennis Hall could have competed in 5th grade and he weighed about 70#.

aarons23 · January 22, 2014, 12:58:45 PM

It would be a very rare occasion that it would include a 12 yr old....more like 14 and 15 year olds with some 13.... But either way...it's not a mandate to wrestle them on high school but nation that should be in the parents and coaches hands. I have three boys that wrestle...my oldest would have been very competitive as an eighth grader....but now my middle, I doubt I would allow him to wrestle high school as an eight grader.