Any Big Time Individual Matchups at Team Sect Tonight?

[Jim Rockford]

I think you may need glasses!  Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans.  This is about competition.  When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle.  There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches.  50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college.  30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.   

Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose?  No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers. 

Who said anything about entertainment value?  It's about competition.  The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match. 

Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%.  Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury.  If he is fine, let him wrestle. 

I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"

Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers. 

Really?  So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers? 

The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.

Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste.  Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!

That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!

There is no reason to forfeit a match. You are in the sport of wrestling to compete and when your match is up you wrestle.  If I were the coach you should have your wrestler wrestle his match.  This sport is not just for the competition, but as a guidance on how to become a better individual in life.  Your reason about college wrestling is completely irrelevant since college starts in September and gets done when school is out.  High school has weight allowance and college does not.  High school has more competition vs. college wrestling so that is why they have more matches.    

[copper63]

Do I agree with Freedom FF last 3? Hard to say, they accomplished their goal, making it through team sectionals, are they required to entertain the crowd? Do you want to shoot it out with their best Tuesday or Saturday? Is it worth risk of injury when you can't afford to miss this weekend? The only real problem I have with this is the kids from the other team earned the right to wrestle on Tuesday and should have a match even if it was against your JV wrestler. Otherwise I am good with it.

I really agree with the way you put this, FF matches once they have accomplished their goal is not unusual. I keep thinking back to the time I was watching team sectionals and this same thing happened. For 2 seniors on the loosing team this was going to be their final match of their high school careers. For 4 years they had been a part of the team, all the hours in the practice room and long weekends at the tournaments, In my opinion they earned the right to be able to wrestle their last match but ended being told these matches didn't matter. You could tell by their faces these matches mattered to them.

[aarons23]

I think you may need glasses!  Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans.  This is about competition.  When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle.  There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches.  50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college.  30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.   

Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose?  No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers. 

Who said anything about entertainment value?  It's about competition.  The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match. 

Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%.  Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury.  If he is fine, let him wrestle. 

I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"

Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers. 

Really?  So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers? 

The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.

Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste.  Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!

That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!

There is no reason to forfeit a match. You are in the sport of wrestling to compete and when your match is up you wrestle.  If I were the coach you should have your wrestler wrestle his match.  This sport is not just for the competition, but as a guidance on how to become a better individual in life.  Your reason about college wrestling is completely irrelevant since college starts in September and gets done when school is out.  High school has weight allowance and college does not.  High school has more competition vs. college wrestling so that is why they have more matches.    

Again your entitled to your opinion....and I am glad most coaches put there wrestlers best interest before your opinion.

[stbird]

I hate to add any facts to this thread, but in my review of the Burlington Sectional, on average 1 kid in each weight class has a chance to get 50+ matches if he wrestles a couple matches at the state tournament and these are kids from elite programs that are involved in large tournaments in addition to state duals competition.  By my calculation that is about 12% of wrestlers which is a far cry from "most"  wrestlers.  I would characterize that as a small fraction, and yes, it is my opinion that 12% is a small fraction.   

I think you may need glasses!  Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans.  This is about competition.  When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle.  There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches.  50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college.  30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.    

Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose?  No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.  

Who said anything about entertainment value?  It's about competition.  The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.  

Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%.  Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury.  If he is fine, let him wrestle.  

I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"

Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.  

Really?  So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?  

The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.

Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste.  Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!

That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!

Btw...trackwrestling is showing kids from Burlington already have 46 matches....I am not sure that all matches are entered in track so it could be more....by the time individual state and team state is over...they will certainly be over 50 matches.

[WINfan]

Talk about beating a dead horse!!!

Its pretty clear that both sides arent going to budge on their stance.  Just move on.

[Paul Harvey]

Talk about beating a dead horse!!!

Its pretty clear that both sides arent going to budge on their stance.  Just move on.

+1

[aarons23]

I hate to add any facts to this thread, but in my review of the Burlington Sectional, on average 1 kid in each weight class has a chance to get 50+ matches if he wrestles a couple matches at the state tournament and these are kids from elite programs that are involved in large tournaments in addition to state duals competition.  By my calculation that is about 12% of wrestlers which is a far cry from "most"  wrestlers.  I would characterize that as a small fraction, and yes, it is my opinion that 12% is a small fraction.   

I think you may need glasses!  Once again, I didn't say anything about growing wrestling or anything about the fans.  This is about competition.  When competition is standing across the mat from you ready to wrestle, you don't forfeit, you wrestle.  There are a whole lot of high school or college kids that get 50 matches.  50 matches is an anomaly for most kids and most teams whether in high school or college.  30-40 matches is probably about the norm for college and high school.    

Are you trying to confuse the discussion on purpose?  No one is talking about college wrestlers, this is a high school wrestling dual meet discussion, although in reality, many college wrestlers wrestle as many or more matches than high school wrestlers.  

Who said anything about entertainment value?  It's about competition.  The more competition a young wrestler gets, the better he's prepared for the next match.  

Missinghome, you are once again a genius with your argument and I agree 100%.  Skipping matches does not help the wrestler unless he is nursing an injury.  If he is fine, let him wrestle.  

I agree Arron... A coaches priorities should be for his wrestler, but isn't wrestling as much about mental toughness as physical toughness? How is forfeiting a match ever "good for his wrestler"

Again Stbird....it's not about your entertainment value.....there has been enough arguments presented by others to explain this to you.....what's hurting wrestling is lack of numbers.....not a coach making decisions for the best interest of his wrestlers.  

Really?  So why does college wrestlers compete in a lot less matches than high schoolers?  

The only one confused is you..... Making the statement that we need more matches because you don't like the decision of coaches to ff matches at team sectionals because people drove there to see wrestlng has nothing to do with growing wrestling or making them better.

Very few college guys are getting the number of matches that high schoolers ste.  Last year on UW Badgers Jordan had the most with 38..,..high school guys are getting in excess of 50!

That is completely your opinion....your entitled to that...but I am glad most coaches will base their decision on what's best for their wrestler...not your need for competition. Btw...you really need to check your match counts.... From what I see college is around mid thirties and high school is closer to 50.... That's not all but most!

Btw...trackwrestling is showing kids from Burlington already have 46 matches....I am not sure that all matches are entered in track so it could be more....by the time individual state and team state is over...they will certainly be over 50 matches.

I will bet it's much higher than you think because not all matches are posted on track.....I bet most JV matches are not.  Either way......you want everyone to wrestle every match....your opinion.....coaches responsibilities aren't to you or me...it to their wrestlers.

[handsandtoes]

I asked some of our old great Athens teams if Mr Wagner ever had them forfeit a match. They said inappropriate term3 no! he always said we are here to wrestle. The best scouting report you can get is to wrestle he would always say. But what did he know right?

[Dale Einerson]

Did Athens ever win a Team Sectional?

[Dale Einerson]

Further, did Athens ever win a Team Sectional with 14 weight classes?

[boowrestle]

I gots to agree with Aarons on this one,most top kids that will be wrestling at state next week will be awful close to 50 matches after sectionals,mine has 45 in right now,after state tourney last yr was at 54 matches(a lot more matches than colleges kids are wrestling).Had this very conversation with our coaching staff last night if we were wrestling in team sectional dual and dual was basically over(we would forfeit out),why risk injury before ind sectionals.

[foose4]

Did Athens ever win a Team Sectional?

I do believe they did in 92,93,94 and 95, the first 4 years done in a dual format.

[DarkKnight]

this is about Team, not individual... if the Team already won, then they can forfeit to save their guys...not a big deal.

But I can understand some people frustration, but really, if ya wanna wrestle, win in the individual portion of the postseason so you continue your career.

There will never be a rule saying a team cant forfeit a match if the coach so decides to do so in regards to Time and the individual... At Team Sectionals you are wrestling your 1st dual and you have a 2nd dual yet to wrestle, if you have the win locked up you are gonna call it a dual and get ready for the next one. Saves time and energy.

[wrestle84]

Is it commonplace for teams to forfeit if they have the dual locked up at the Clash?

[PH]

Being the coach for Wittenberg-Birnamwood, I have no problem with what Freedom did.  We forfeited two weights against Two Rivers and one weight to Freedom in last years TEAM sectional.  I do have a problem with the "if I were the coach" comments though, because until you are put in that position, you really don't know the situation.  If Freedom would have wrestled the last three and someone of importance did get hurt, we would have another topic to read on how stupid of a decision it was to wrestle those matches when they had the TEAM title locked up.  In our sport, what the Freedom coach did was no different than the Packers sitting Aaron Rodgers with a 20 point lead in the fourth quarter.  All in all, I do understand both sides, but don't knock these coaches.  I know that our wrestlers know exactly what we are going to do going into the TEAM sectional, because they are talked to(coached up) way before the dual even starts.