Seeding system has to be broken

[firemanscarry]

Way more upsets in the girls' brackets, but it's kind of to be expected. It's a rapidly growing sport without a ton of historical data to feed to the computer. Plus, some programs don't get nearly as many matches for their girls as others. In some cases, they mainly wrestled boys all season.

I think that in a few years, the girls' brackets will "settle down" and become more predictable, and you won't see as many returning champions getting knocked off. Going to take a bit yet, though.

[Numbers]

Way more upsets in the girls' brackets, but it's kind of to be expected. It's a rapidly growing sport without a ton of historical data to feed to the computer. Plus, some programs don't get nearly as many matches for their girls as others. In some cases, they mainly wrestled boys all season.

I think that in a few years, the girls' brackets will "settle down" and become more predictable, and you won't see as many returning champions getting knocked off. Going to take a bit yet, though.

The returning state qualifier seeding criteria elimination would also help girls.

[hornbuckleb]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

[wrastle63]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

I would love double elimination, but think it will be easier to go to balanced divisions and run the 16 man bracket like D1 and girls. With competitive balance it would make it easier for the fans, coaches, etc.

[Numbers]

12 weights.  2-2-2.

[hornbuckleb]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

I would love double elimination, but think it will be easier to go to balanced divisions and run the 16 man bracket like D1 and girls. With competitive balance it would make it easier for the fans, coaches, etc.

Your right.  Competitive balance adds another dynamic.  Does it ever transistion into individual success?  How about girls wrestling, will we ever see multiple divisions?

Not that this ever happens, but would love to see a 40-man bracket, double elimination place top 12.  Qualify everything the same, 16,12 and 12 all into one bracket.  Wow!

[rankwizard]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

wrong- the third problem -- several weights had guys seeded lower than the provided data suggested. these guys pulled "upsets". there is an easy fix to it- just have a committee vote on it. a computer alone doesn't get the whole job done.  the criteria is great and does a great job at getting a baseline down, but there a few more steps to improve the system further.

[hornbuckleb]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

wrong- the third problem -- several weights had guys seeded lower than the provided data suggested. these guys pulled "upsets". there is an easy fix to it- just have a committee vote on it. a computer alone doesn't get the whole job done.  the criteria is great and does a great job at getting a baseline down, but there a few more steps to improve the system further.

What range of seeds?  I would argue if the top 4 are close to being correct then there is no problem.  Last thing you need is a committee debating over seeds 4 or 5, 6 or 7.

[Ghetto]

This is probably a hi-jack of this thread, but the team state seeding is jacked.

Homestead beat Hartford in a dual, beat them in the conference tournament, and scored more points at individual state. Still seeded below them.

I'm not smart enough to understand why.

[wrastle63]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

wrong- the third problem -- several weights had guys seeded lower than the provided data suggested. these guys pulled "upsets". there is an easy fix to it- just have a committee vote on it. a computer alone doesn't get the whole job done.  the criteria is great and does a great job at getting a baseline down, but there a few more steps to improve the system further.

What range of seeds?  I would argue if the top 4 are close to being correct then there is no problem.  Last thing you need is a committee debating over seeds 4 or 5, 6 or 7.

Seeds 5-7 are super important in D2/D3. You lose round 1 and you are done. If all the brackets were the same we would all understand the importance and value the same things. 

[hornbuckleb]

The only two problems with the current seeding system are inaccurate/missing data, and no double elimination.  Both are easily resolved.

Track could produce a report containing the records for each qualifier broken down by team.  Coaches would have until Monday at noon to certify the records.

Double elimination can happen.  Start the entire tournament (all divisions) at 10:00 on Thursday.

wrong- the third problem -- several weights had guys seeded lower than the provided data suggested. these guys pulled "upsets". there is an easy fix to it- just have a committee vote on it. a computer alone doesn't get the whole job done.  the criteria is great and does a great job at getting a baseline down, but there a few more steps to improve the system further.

What range of seeds?  I would argue if the top 4 are close to being correct then there is no problem.  Last thing you need is a committee debating over seeds 4 or 5, 6 or 7.

Seeds 5-7 are super important in D2/D3. You lose round 1 and you are done. If all the brackets were the same we would all understand the importance and value the same things. 

I understand what you are saying, but not buying it.  Double elimination fixes that problem regardless of division or seed.

[rankwizard]

The weights I had slight disagreements with were:

 D1: 132 and 150

 D2: 106, 120, 132, 138, 150

D3: 113, 132, 144

It all worked out okay, I just thought a couple kids got rougher draws than they deserved. I also got to keep in mind that life is not fair and this stuff happens.

[Houndhead]

Are you talking true double elimination? The loser bracket winner has to double dip the king seat?

[bigoil]

Are you talking true double elimination? The loser bracket winner has to double dip the king seat?

We are going to go back to good points and bad points, need two X's in your row.

[DocWrestling]

That brings back memories of monster brackets and avoiding the two X's!  Someone needs to bring those back.  Not sure anyone fully understood those brackets