Seeding system has to be broken

[bud]

I remember those State Freestyle brackets well. Once you had 2 black X's you were done. If you had no X's and all 4"s for each round then you were the man!! The brackets were split, and the top 2 advanced. 1 vs2, 2 vs 1. You could potentially wrestle the same kid twice if your half of the bracket was loaded!!

[hornbuckleb]

Are you talking true double elimination? The loser bracket winner has to double dip the king seat?

We are going to go back to good points and bad points, need two X's in your row.

Then top 4 round robin

[bigoil]

Are you talking true double elimination? The loser bracket winner has to double dip the king seat?

We are going to go back to good points and bad points, need two X's in your row.

Then top 4 round robin

And then A bracket vs B bracket. I have some of those crazy brackets, 40-60 kids split up into top and bottom. There were no 4 man round robins back then. You could have easily 10 matches in a day.

[DocWrestling]

I only remember those brackets at state and nationals.  Did other local tournaments ever use them?  I need to dig in my parents basement to see if any of those brackets exist.

Does any organization across the country still use them?  I am thinking they must because when I register our HS tournament on trackwrestling and you go through selections for settings, that bracket style is still an option.

[hornbuckleb]

AAU and USWF

[bigoil]

I only remember those brackets at state and nationals.  Did other local tournaments ever use them?  I need to dig in my parents basement to see if any of those brackets exist.

Does any organization across the country still use them?  I am thinking they must because when I register our HS tournament on trackwrestling and you go through selections for settings, that bracket style is still an option.

In Freestyle there were many others. I recall specifically Sheboygan having a bracket with two wall charts 22-23 on each.

Definitely uswf, aau, regional nationals as well.

Doc - you are a couple of years younger than me, I also recall when I was younger, many of the freestyle tournaments were bad points and as years went on switched to good points. Whatever- you may recall this better than I since you are a couple of years older.

[Houndhead]

I had forgotten all about the brackets with 2 X's. Anyone know where I could find more info on how those worked?

[DocWrestling]

It is called "vertical pairing".  Trackwrestling still allows you to use these style brackets but I have not seen them in use in a long time.

As I remember it
1) Wrestlers were placed in either the top half or bottom half
2) Might be 20+ guys in each half.  You wrestled guys in your half until enough were eliminated with 2 losses.  Losses gave you an "X" and after two X's you got the dreaded thick black line meaning you were done.
3) That half of the bracket wrestled until their were only 3 guys left
4) Those 3 moved on to a round robin against each other.  They did not have to wrestle the same guy again as I remember it.  The earlier result carried over
5) Based on results of round robin matches and points you determined 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for that half of the bracket. 4th place was the next last guy eliminated that had the most points.  I think you got 3 points for a decision and 4 points for a tech fall, and 5 for a pin.
6) Then you had the final placement matches that crossed over with the other half of bracket.  Both kids that took 1st in their half of bracket wrestled for 1st place, 2nd place guys wrestled for 3rd, 3rd place guys wrestled for 5th, and 4th place guys wrestled for 7th.

Is that how others remember it?  For some reason as a wrestler on one of the lines on the bracket you never knew who you were going to wrestle the next match because sometimes it would be a guy above you and other times it would be a guy below you.  I think the system tried to match up guys that won with guys that lost to try and eliminate wrestlers as fast as possible.

I remember theses brackets at Rapids for state and then at nationals. I don't think there were any "regionals" at that time to qualify for state so it was not unusual for their to be 60-70 kids in your bracket since you did not have to qualify.  Those were the days when rubber suits were everywhere and kids laying on mats under heat blankets to cut the last few ounces.  Things are much better today in that instance.  For the younger folks, the only state tournaments were in freestyle one day and then greco the next day.  There was no state tournament for folkstyle but all the local tournaments were folkstyle as I remember

[hornbuckleb]

It is called "vertical pairing".  Trackwrestling still allows you to use these style brackets but I have not seen them in use in a long time.

As I remember it
1) Wrestlers were placed in either the top half or bottom half
2) Might be 20+ guys in each half.  You wrestled guys in your half until enough were eliminated with 2 losses.  Losses gave you an "X" and after two X's you got the dreaded thick black line meaning you were done.
3) That half of the bracket wrestled until their were only 3 guys left
4) Those 3 moved on to a round robin against each other.  They did not have to wrestle the same guy again as I remember it.  The earlier result carried over
5) Based on results of round robin matches and points you determined 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for that half of the bracket. 4th place was the next last guy eliminated that had the most points.  I think you got 3 points for a decision and 4 points for a tech fall, and 5 for a pin.
6) Then you had the final placement matches that crossed over with the other half of bracket.  Both kids that took 1st in their half of bracket wrestled for 1st place, 2nd place guys wrestled for 3rd, 3rd place guys wrestled for 5th, and 4th place guys wrestled for 7th.

Is that how others remember it?  For some reason as a wrestler on one of the lines on the bracket you never knew who you were going to wrestle the next match because sometimes it would be a guy above you and other times it would be a guy below you.  I think the system tried to match up guys that won with guys that lost to try and eliminate wrestlers as fast as possible.

I remember theses brackets at Rapids for state and then at nationals. I don't think there were any "regionals" at that time to qualify for state so it was not unusual for their to be 60-70 kids in your bracket since you did not have to qualify.  Those were the days when rubber suits were everywhere and kids laying on mats under heat blankets to cut the last few ounces.  Things are much better today in that instance.  For the younger folks, the only state tournaments were in freestyle one day and then greco the next day.  There was no state tournament for folkstyle but all the local tournaments were folkstyle as I remember

Pretty much spot on.  They did run a qualifier, but I can not remeber if that was for AAU or UWSF.  I believe it was USWF.  Mineral Point and Lodi hosted and then onto state at either Rapids or River Falls.

[harley25]

Are you talking about Brackets Like this?

https://www.trackwrestling.com/freestyletournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&loadBalanced=true&TIM=1709570672025&pageName=%2Ffreestyletournaments%2FBracketViewer.jsp&twSessionId=hwoqgmlhgk

[bud]

I'm trying to post an image of a USA Freestyle bracket from the Northern Plains 1993. this is the type of wallchart bracket we are talking about here, but can't figure out how to post the bracket image!!

[rankwizard]

I like these bracket ideas.

I do think the seeding works great, i was just thinking where it can be improved.