Seeding system has to be broken

[wrastle63]

Simply put, if records or seeding criteria is not correct then that is on the coach.  Problem is sometimes that incorrect information helps their wrestler and sometimes it hurts them so it makes it a concern of all coaches.  There is no way the WIAA can keep track of every individual record like they can team records/results.

AD's, WIAA, and other coaches have to call out those not fulfilling their obligations and they should be reprimanded.

Which of course leads you to the next problem which is you don't want to fire or make it harder on coaches because there are not enough people that want their jobs.

Doc, so in this case it hurts a wrestler but what if in another case (which is detailed above) that a wrestler loses a match and it isn't marked as a varsity.

Maybe we can load in all the matches from the '80's and I will be undefeated

Here are other times it helps. These wrestlers in the girls brackets are undefeated in the seeding criteria due to very few matches marked as varsity. That gives them little to no head-to-head and common opponent data. They get a seed point over almost every wrestler who has not been at state before and is not undefeated. Some earned significantly better seeds.

#7 seed at 235 Alyssa Sagen at (1-4) from Cameron
- She has no prior state experience to earn points as a placer or qualifier.
- Going into track, she was 1-4 prior to sectionals. Those matches were not marked as varsity.
- She is seeded only based off her undefeated 4-0 sectionals record. She goes from likely a #14-16 seed to #7.

#8 seed at 114 Gemma Vaccaro (15-11) Fr. from Milwaukee Ronald Reagan
- She has no prior state experience to earn points as a placer or qualifier.
- She has no matches before sectionals marked as varsity and is also seeded only based off her undefeated 4-0 sectionals record. She goes from likely #14-16 seed to #8.

All Reagan's five qualifiers have zero or only a couple matches marked as varsity before sectionals. Some of their wrestlers like at 145 and 185 would probably be seeded high anyway, but their 114 gets a big boost.

#7 at 107 Greta Rzonca (19-5) from Wilmot Union
- Seeded based off a 6-0 record instead of the 19-5 record.

I agree with the posters above that coaches need to be doing this correctly because it can significantly affect some seeds.

This is awful. If these were boys brackets people would be pissed.

[DocWrestling]

But remember that was not the seeding system's fault.  It was the coaches fault

[wrastle63]

But remember that was not the seeding system's fault.  It was the coaches fault

Which is the fault of the WIAA that it is allowed. Records should be checked. That is unacceptable.

[DocWrestling]

The WIAA don't care.  They don't care if there is seeding at all.  Besides there is no way they can check 520 male wrestlers plus the girls.  Maybe they could but they would probably have to announce brackets Thursday morning.

Imagine them trying to verify all those wrestlers.  How would they even know something is wrong.  Think of the time taken if they did find something wrong and having to go back to the coach and wait for correction and then re-check.

Coaches association really cannot do it either and they are the lead on this seeding.

I do think there needs to be consequences for coaches.  How about any coach that is shown to submit inaccurate info is not allowed on the floor at state.

 

[Dale Einerson]

49 of 56 top 4 seeds in semis in d1.
87% accuracy.
Looks like it worked really well to me.

Wouldn't it have to be compared to prior non-seeded seasons to verify if it works or doesn't work?

[crossface21]

In D1, all #1 seeds made it to the finals, and by my count 10 of the #2 seeds made it.

[Big House]

Rapids

[Big House]

Rapids

[PAUL]

I would say the seeding works great - of course with hundreds of kids it won't be perfect, but it seems pretty darn good.  And it sounds like it would be even better if every team or program was 100% accurate and perfect with their record keeping and data entry.  I'd say there will probably always be a few issues with that, but I think it will improve once folks realize what a big deal it can be.  The Finals tonight should be pretty sensational with for the most part the top 2 wrestlers facing off in the pinnacle of the sport in our state at this level.  Enjoy the show!! 

[npope]

I would say the seeding works great - of course with hundreds of kids it won't be perfect, but it seems pretty darn good.  And it sounds like it would be even better if every team or program was 100% accurate and perfect with their record keeping and data entry.  I'd say there will probably always be a few issues with that, but I think it will improve once folks realize what a big deal it can be.  The Finals tonight should be pretty sensational with for the most part the top 2 wrestlers facing off in the pinnacle of the sport in our state at this level.  Enjoy the show!! 

Indeed, a quick scan of the seeds for the folks in the semi-finals suggests that the seeding was fairly accurate. If anything, this year's results would seem to suggest that the seeding system used was very accurate.

[factfinder]

I would say the seeding works great - of course with hundreds of kids it won't be perfect, but it seems pretty darn good.  And it sounds like it would be even better if every team or program was 100% accurate and perfect with their record keeping and data entry.  I'd say there will probably always be a few issues with that, but I think it will improve once folks realize what a big deal it can be.  The Finals tonight should be pretty sensational with for the most part the top 2 wrestlers facing off in the pinnacle of the sport in our state at this level.  Enjoy the show!!

Indeed, a quick scan of the seeds for the folks in the semi-finals suggests that the seeding was fairly accurate. If anything, this year's results would seem to suggest that the seeding system used was very accurate.


I agree 100%
After looking at the results it was as spot on as you could get in D1, with a couple questionable 2 seeds over 3 seeds and that took care of it self last night.
I try to never complement the WIAA for obvious reasons but I will acknowledge that they have put in a solid solution to the seeding issue.
Now they need to work on a new weight decent plan (worst in the nation) the new season starts tomorrow!

[Ghetto]

It's not a decent descent plan?

[imwi]

It's not a decent descent plan?

I thought his descent plan was a pretty decent plan though

[MarkK]

For years many of the best match ups were on Friday night.  Not a lot of people liked it.  But you had to wrestle who ever was put in front of you and if you won you moved on.  Not everyone gets the results they wanted.  Last nights matches were much more reflective of a desire of many.  Better reporting from coaches can make it better. True enough.  Still only one person wins every match at state.  Will there be some "I didn't see that coming?"    Of course.   That's why they wrestle the matches.  Win or lose you face whomever is out in front of you.  A full double elimination might, might fix some scenarios but probably not a whole lot if everyone reports correctly. 

The whole MFF thing had me mystified.  I wondered a few times when I saw someone MFF to s superior wrestler and the wrestle later.  I wasn't there so I don't know but it seemed to happen a few times.  I've never liked ducking an opponent regardless of how it impacts future match ups.  If you are moving wrestlers around in a dual in order to give yourself a better chance to win.  No problem.   But in the middle of a tournament MFF for future placements seems to be against the very nature of wrestling. 

[DocWrestling]

In D1 the seeding worked well.  #1 seed won 11 of the 13 weight classes.  The #2 seed won the other two weight classes.

A few kids wrestled above their seed on the back side which always happens.

Overall lots of dominating wrestlers winning title and not to many upsets