Post Season

[panther93]

SMAC/WIAA allowed limited football season with no state tournament. I would assume the perceived close contact of wrestling is similar to football in their eyes. WWF can run seeded state tournament in 1 day. Kids can do virtual learning for 2 weeks after tournament if school district is concerned about Covid. Would schools/WIAA allow for continued training at school for WWF event? Seems like this would possible since you can do 2 non-school events.

there was a state tournament, just not a championship because time constraints. week 9 of the FB season was the same week as a normal level 5 state championship week. WFCA decided it was more important to have 7 game reg season than figure out how to have a four game reg season and a true 5 week playoffs.

While this is true, I believe that they pushed the start date back a couple of weeks and the "Culminating Events" were only two weeks, so basically the regional.  I think they were afraid of going across the state to play games. 

I am just fearful that there are going to continue to label wrestling as a HIGH RISK sport and limit the overall contact between areas.  Our northern DII sectional takes up a really large geographical area.  They may deem that exposure to be too great.  I hope not, but I can see it.

[Tims]

If the hang up is being able to complete the State tournament in 1 day.  Then this is obtainable. I am originally from Indiana and our state tournament has been run like that for years.  Two different versions still wrestling less than 5 matches a day. We had an old system that was follow the leader after the 1st round.  Lose first round and you are done. Place top 8.  New system has wrestle backs to 5th place, semis are your top 4.  Still only wrestle 4 matches.  16 kids to state means something to a lot of kids.  If the other hang up is fans I am not sure why this is even a question.  If it's kids or fans it's simple no fans.  Would rather see more kids have an opportunity than parents be able to attend when they can watch via live stream.

Tim Spray

[DarkKnight]

Teams are battling each other from all over the state. so dont worry about them canceling the postseason.

Though, you do need to accept that it won't be what we want... and there isn't a way at this time to get what you want.

It's too late in the game, and if you want to cuss and cry, you will only potentially cause the WIAA to shut it all down because you guys can't accept. 

While it isn't fair to the 2nd placers at the D1 sectionals, or the 3rd placers at d2 and d3 sectionals, you're not going to change a thing for this month. Many wise people have already attempted to influence the WIAA in the past few months, so you need to stop thinking your crying will cause some type of miracle outcome.

[Hayward]

It is not to late for change.  It is attitudes like that which will ever prevent change for the better

The WIAA works for the school districts and the districts work for the students and taxpayers.  If enough people and schools demand something different it can happen. 

[MatScoutWillie]

If the hang up is being able to complete the State tournament in 1 day.  Then this is obtainable. I am originally from Indiana and our state tournament has been run like that for years.  Two different versions still wrestling less than 5 matches a day. We had an old system that was follow the leader after the 1st round.  Lose first round and you are done. Place top 8.  New system has wrestle backs to 5th place, semis are your top 4.  Still only wrestle 4 matches.  16 kids to state means something to a lot of kids.  If the other hang up is fans I am not sure why this is even a question.  If it's kids or fans it's simple no fans.  Would rather see more kids have an opportunity than parents be able to attend when they can watch via live stream.

Tim Spray

Too reasonable.  Never going to happen with the current leadership.

[DocWrestling]

It is not to late for change.  It is attitudes like that which will ever prevent change for the better

The WIAA works for the school districts and the districts work for the students and taxpayers.  If enough people and schools demand something different it can happen.

My impression is that AD's, parents, and coaches are all pushing for a normal like state tournament.  But your statement is true in that the WIAA works for the "school districts".  Knowing that let's look at school districts.  How many D1 schools are there in the state that are going to school full time?  We are going two days a week and almost every other school in the Fox Valley and Green Bay are worse than that being all virtual.  Truth is that these districts and these school boards are the ones preventing things from happening.  They are preventing their schools from hosting regionals or sectionals.

I am beyond frustrated but this issue really goes beyond wrestling and the WIAA and into the districts and their school boards and their county health boards.  Many schools in the state have not wrestled at all and it has nothing to do with the WIAA yet they still are members and have voices.

[4myboys]

Blows my mind that WWF/USA Wrestling can host an event with 588 high school wrestlers (not counting the second chance brackets they did) in one day.  Actually in roughly 9 hours!  Not really many spectators were in attendance (compared to what would have been).  Maybe someone from the WIAA should have attended to see how safe those tournaments and wrestling really is.   At this point, most of us have had it, been in contact with it or are just over it! 

I think it can be done safely and effectively in one day, very sad that the message is "this is how it's going to be".  I would love to see the WWF/USA wrestling do something - maybe a 2nd Chance State!! 

[bigoil]

SMAC/WIAA allowed limited football season with no state tournament. I would assume the perceived close contact of wrestling is similar to football in their eyes. WWF can run seeded state tournament in 1 day. Kids can do virtual learning for 2 weeks after tournament if school district is concerned about Covid. Would schools/WIAA allow for continued training at school for WWF event? Seems like this would possible since you can do 2 non-school events.

there was a state tournament, just not a championship because time constraints. week 9 of the FB season was the same week as a normal level 5 state championship week. WFCA decided it was more important to have 7 game reg season than figure out how to have a four game reg season and a true 5 week playoffs.

While this is true, I believe that they pushed the start date back a couple of weeks and the "Culminating Events" were only two weeks, so basically the regional.  I think they were afraid of going across the state to play games. 

I am just fearful that there are going to continue to label wrestling as a HIGH RISK sport and limit the overall contact between areas.  Our northern DII sectional takes up a really large geographical area.  They may deem that exposure to be too great.  I hope not, but I can see it.

The next Monday winter sports started and then you have field conditions. Week 13 and Week 14 are usually on turf.

[DocWrestling]

I also think that as wrestlers we always feel like we are getting the shaft since wrestling is not as popular as other sports.

While I think that happens a lot, I don't think this is happening in this instance.  Every fall sport state tournament had numbers reduced in participants and fans with different locations and dates used for each division.

With that said wrestling does have its own issues directly affecting it now
1) Labeled a high risk sport
2) Indoor sport
3) Large volume of competitors.  D1 individual tennis state usually has 64 players but only had 40.  Even with only 8 wrestlers per bracket, D1 wrestling would have 112 competitors.
4) Large volume of teams and this lots of coaches.  Of those 112 competitors, I would guess maybe it is 40-60 teams?
5) Lack of facilities willing to host and manage an individual tournament.  Much easier to host  four teams in other sports with less than 50 athletes and only coaches for 4 teams
6) Shortage of referees. 

I am in the camp that it can be done with same brackets and competitors as always and it has even been proven by WWF.  I am willing to admit that hosting an event like that certainly will have some Covid spread.  That still can't be a reason to hide behind some sort of liability or self righteousness that cutting competitors in half is somehow going to change or alter the course of the Covid-19 pandemic.

[ChargerDad]

I also think that as wrestlers we always feel like we are getting the shaft since wrestling is not as popular as other sports.

While I think that happens a lot, I don't think this is happening in this instance.  Every fall sport state tournament had numbers reduced in participants and fans with different locations and dates used for each division.

With that said wrestling does have its own issues directly affecting it now
1) Labeled a high risk sport
2) Indoor sport
3) Large volume of competitors.  D1 individual tennis state usually has 64 players but only had 40.  Even with only 8 wrestlers per bracket, D1 wrestling would have 112 competitors.
4) Large volume of teams and this lots of coaches.  Of those 112 competitors, I would guess maybe it is 40-60 teams?
5) Lack of facilities willing to host and manage an individual tournament.  Much easier to host  four teams in other sports with less than 50 athletes and only coaches for 4 teams
6) Shortage of referees. 

I am in the camp that it can be done with same brackets and competitors as always and it has even been proven by WWF.  I am willing to admit that hosting an event like that certainly will have some Covid spread.  That still can't be a reason to hide behind some sort of liability or self righteousness that cutting competitors in half is somehow going to change or alter the course of the Covid-19 pandemic.

USA Wrestling sent out a survey by email a couple hours ago as a 7 day follow up after that even asking about COVID symptoms.  I would be curious what the results of that survey are if they are shared with the general public.   Wondering if they are sending out one after 14 days too.  Obviously, the tournament wouldn't be the only place respondents would have been exposed, but a low number of symptomatic athletes and attendees would obviously be good data..

[Ernie1964]

Folks,
   I was told last night that the WIAA is going to cancel the tournament series for wrestling if we don't come up with regional and sectional hosts.  As frustrating as everything is, we need to focus on what we can do right now.  If your team is in a regional or sectional that does not have a host, be proactive and talk to your school. We have to get this done.

[Tims]

Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans.  If information  I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.

If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost.  It's about the kids is it not?  It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.

Tim Spray

[DocWrestling]

Unfortunately we were one of the sites scheduled to host a regional and had to withdraw from hosting due to school board policies. 
If you look at the D1 Southeast area they do not have either regional hosts or a sectional host.  They need to find 3 hosts.

Madison area D1 sectional has a sectional host but is missing both regional hosts.

At D1 at least it sure seems like they need to maybe just try to find 8 sectional hosts and get rid of regionals.

I am guessing the WIAA with a school host will not entertain hosting an event outside of a school?

[bulldog]

Someone will need to explain to me how the WIAA thinks 8 kids per bracket per weight while each participant having 2-4 fans in attendance is somehow medically acceptable in these times rather than having 16 per weight and no fans.  If information  I received about the reasoning for having the fans offset the cost of the 8 participants then that is a shame.

If it is about the cost then we need to find a way to offset that cost.  It's about the kids is it not?  It's the reason why schools offer sports and the sole reason the WIAA exists.

Tim Spray

Come on Tim...you have been around long enough to know the WIAA could never and will never explain their "logic" behind anything.

Here are what I think the hangups are and the possible solution:

1 - location. No schools want to host the even. That isn't completley true...time to call some schools and get them on board. Rhinelander had stepped up. But if schools can't do it it seems like the Dells facilities don't have a problem running tournaments.

2 - cost. Time to ante up. Dang close to every school has a booster club. Those booster clubs have $$. Want to have a tournament? Maybe this is the year those funds go to the bigger opportunity instead of new warm-ups for the school. Ante up some money and it will cover the costs of the tournament.

3 - Time - Maybe my numbers are off but it looks like 560 wrestlers competed in the 2020 state tournament over the course of 3 days. Why couldn't the WIAA have a one day tournament and get it done? Nuway ran a tournament in the Dells in December with 677 athletes registered and hammered it out in one day.

The first objection I have seen to this is the 45 minute rule. Do the math...State tournament - 6 mats, 826 matches (based on the 2020 state bracket sizes). So then we figure 15 minutes per match (that is liberal) - 4 bouts per hour per mat. You could bang through 52 bouts in 9 hours. Start at 10:00 am and done by 7:00 at night. Start at 9:00 am and give an hour lunch break. And we all know the dome in the Dells can handle more than 6 mats.

Second objection is the 5 matches per day rule. The WIAA is willing to change the rules this year by only allowing the champions to go to state. Only one time will there be more than 6 matches in a 16 person bracket...if you lose the first match and then wrestle back to 3rd. Otherwise the rule doesn't come into effect. And I believe this is only for D1 at State. So...either change the rule to allow 6 matches in a day or first round loss ends the tournament.

So the answers are possible. Probably the biggest hangup is locations. The Dome in the Dells alone could host a couple regionals/sectionals. Would the universities be willing to host? It would probably cost $$ but maybe worth asking?? Just some thoughts.

[lowsingle103]

We offered to host regionals and sectionals...still not on any of the assignments...our sectional is missing a regional and a sectional host.  Coaches talk to your admins about hosting.  D1 has 8 regionals and 4 sectionals yet that are open.