Reducing Weight Classes

[ChargerDad]

There is very little wrong with our state tournament or individual tournament series other than some format issues that many of us would like to see changed like maybe double elimination and eliminating regionals weekend.  I don't think the individual tournament has any affect on participation in a bad way.  It is possible that if we doubled the number of kids that wrestled at state it might increase overall participation but still not sure I would support that.

The problem recognized in Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Iowa, etc is the duals and the team aspect.  If duals did not exist I don't think anyone would be recommending changes.

Discussing state tournaments is pointless.  The individual aspect of wrestling is doing fine.  The team aspect is suffering greatly and some like me believe that improving the team aspect will have a positive affect on participation numbers especially if it was improved at the JV and middle school level.

How do you propose adjusting weight classes for duals, but not for individual without creating a weight management nightmare where say a kid is wrestling 142 (made up number) but needs to weigh in at 138.4 so he can make 138 in 3 days for a tournament???  If you keep overlapping weight classes the same, but just cut a couple out, well then you might as well just cut them from individual too..   and evenif you figure out a way, it's going to mean a lot fewer matches and experience for some weight classes going into the state series.  To me, separate classes for duals and individual tournament just makes no sense at all.

[DocWrestling]

There is no rule that a wrestler must weigh 141.9 if he wants to wrestle 142.  We need to stop worrying about every ounce.  Kids may be able to fit into weight classes where they don't have to cut weight for duals. Manage your weight for whatever works the best for that wrestler at the time

In your scenario if a wrestler is managing to wrestle 138 in an individual tournament there is no reason he can't weigh 138 and wrestle 142 at a dual.

[ramjet]

Over what period of time?
Is this a kid who has never lifted or has?
Wrestlers cut weight because it works.  Being close to as lean as possible makes a wrestler more competitive.  No one cuts weight for fun. 

Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

What age are most of these male wrestlers?
Would you agree most of them are growing and not done growing until they are in there 20s?
So a young wrestler and most of them in this weight classes are younger (the stats back that up) comes into HS or even Jr High they are in those weight classes you can be assured they are not generally muscled up in any way. Some are of course because they know the significant of a good strength and conditioning program. So they are at age where they are growing you can put the weight on them. Good strength program with proper nutrition and you can optimize the individual for peek strength and endurance. One of the big issue is I have seen in Wisconsin wrestling is the concept you have to cut to be stronger than your opponent. If a kid is close to the fat % cuts hard they are cutting water and in many cases muscle. They are doing this because of this ridiculous concept of cutting=wins.....I have better idea; learn technique and get a good strength and conditioning program going in the program. Sure weights are ok but functional training far exceeds the results for muscular endurance, flexibility and useable strength and speed. By the way we Have done this. We have put good lean muscle on athletes over the summer and fall. The bigger the athlete the more we can accomplish. We also through hard work and a specific program have made the muscle they have more efficient. 

Again cutting weight classes is one way to improve quality of wrestling but it's not required if coaches would "wrestle the matches" and put more emphasis on the entire program and well being of their athletes. You know the good programs year after year they have the emphasis in the right places.

After all wrestling is the vehicle in which coaches teach; work ethic, sacrifice, team work, self worth, worm equals reward and it should include good health and fitness. Think about that statement next time a kid asks if they are close to 7% and want to cut more weight because they are ducking an opponent or challenge.......

[Fish]

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.change.org%2Fp%2Fnfhs-nfhs-wrestling-weigh-classes-all-sizes-matter&h=AT1mmtF-QuqPPhmcESobQHuu5bLaVmNWQjG3Eu5lUnhmDU0NRnQVgAu6RGVssdJNoj-M-dAYb3r0kUepzUInqelRbWVPhjg3aC6FMkSAabOOQzjK3my9C9_


looks like people in Pennsylvania aren’t too happy about the weight changes.  They are sending around a petition to not let it happen.  These changes would kill the sport!

[MNbadger]

Too often on this site and other places individuals will throw out a statement how a wrestler should just "bulk up to the next weight".  They seem to think you can add muscle mass easily.   It is easy to put on weight but not so with muscle mass.   How much muscle mass do you think human beings can put on per week/per month/etc.?   I think if you do some research you'd be surprised.   

Over what period of time?
Is this a kid who has never lifted or has?
Wrestlers cut weight because it works.  Being close to as lean as possible makes a wrestler more competitive.  No one cuts weight for fun. 

Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

What age are most of these male wrestlers?
Would you agree most of them are growing and not done growing until they are in there 20s?
So a young wrestler and most of them in this weight classes are younger (the stats back that up) comes into HS or even Jr High they are in those weight classes you can be assured they are not generally muscled up in any way. Some are of course because they know the significant of a good strength and conditioning program. So they are at age where they are growing you can put the weight on them. Good strength program with proper nutrition and you can optimize the individual for peek strength and endurance. One of the big issue is I have seen in Wisconsin wrestling is the concept you have to cut to be stronger than your opponent. If a kid is close to the fat % cuts hard they are cutting water and in many cases muscle. They are doing this because of this ridiculous concept of cutting=wins.....I have better idea; learn technique and get a good strength and conditioning program going in the program. Sure weights are ok but functional training far exceeds the results for muscular endurance, flexibility and useable strength and speed. By the way we Have done this. We have put good lean muscle on athletes over the summer and fall. The bigger the athlete the more we can accomplish. We also through hard work and a specific program have made the muscle they have more efficient. 

Again cutting weight classes is one way to improve quality of wrestling but it's not required if coaches would "wrestle the matches" and put more emphasis on the entire program and well being of their athletes. You know the good programs year after year they have the emphasis in the right places.

After all wrestling is the vehicle in which coaches teach; work ethic, sacrifice, team work, self worth, worm equals reward and it should include good health and fitness. Think about that statement next time a kid asks if they are close to 7% and want to cut more weight because they are ducking an opponent or challenge.......

[ramjet]

Too often on this site and other places individuals will throw out a statement how a wrestler should just "bulk up to the next weight".  They seem to think you can add muscle mass easily.   It is easy to put on weight but not so with muscle mass.   How much muscle mass do you think human beings can put on per week/per month/etc.?   I think if you do some research you'd be surprised.   

Over what period of time?
Is this a kid who has never lifted or has?
Wrestlers cut weight because it works.  Being close to as lean as possible makes a wrestler more competitive.  No one cuts weight for fun. 

Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

What age are most of these male wrestlers?
Would you agree most of them are growing and not done growing until they are in there 20s?
So a young wrestler and most of them in this weight classes are younger (the stats back that up) comes into HS or even Jr High they are in those weight classes you can be assured they are not generally muscled up in any way. Some are of course because they know the significant of a good strength and conditioning program. So they are at age where they are growing you can put the weight on them. Good strength program with proper nutrition and you can optimize the individual for peek strength and endurance. One of the big issue is I have seen in Wisconsin wrestling is the concept you have to cut to be stronger than your opponent. If a kid is close to the fat % cuts hard they are cutting water and in many cases muscle. They are doing this because of this ridiculous concept of cutting=wins.....I have better idea; learn technique and get a good strength and conditioning program going in the program. Sure weights are ok but functional training far exceeds the results for muscular endurance, flexibility and useable strength and speed. By the way we Have done this. We have put good lean muscle on athletes over the summer and fall. The bigger the athlete the more we can accomplish. We also through hard work and a specific program have made the muscle they have more efficient. 

Again cutting weight classes is one way to improve quality of wrestling but it's not required if coaches would "wrestle the matches" and put more emphasis on the entire program and well being of their athletes. You know the good programs year after year they have the emphasis in the right places.

After all wrestling is the vehicle in which coaches teach; work ethic, sacrifice, team work, self worth, worm equals reward and it should include good health and fitness. Think about that statement next time a kid asks if they are close to 7% and want to cut more weight because they are ducking an opponent or challenge.......

Umm you just disagree with anything I post however contrary to your belief I do not just post,  I have done it we have done this many times with fantastic results in almost all cases the athlete moved up in weight and had fantastic success.  Your ignorance really bores me...

[MNbadger]

Actually most wrestlers drop weight to success.  Yes, you might post a few who went up with success (Dake and others but they are the exception not the rule).  Additionally, they are very, very elite.  Again, most wrestlers cut close to their 7% for most success.
How many pounds of muscle mass can a human being gain per week/per month/etc.?

Too often on this site and other places individuals will throw out a statement how a wrestler should just "bulk up to the next weight".  They seem to think you can add muscle mass easily.   It is easy to put on weight but not so with muscle mass.   How much muscle mass do you think human beings can put on per week/per month/etc.?   I think if you do some research you'd be surprised.   

Over what period of time?
Is this a kid who has never lifted or has?
Wrestlers cut weight because it works.  Being close to as lean as possible makes a wrestler more competitive.  No one cuts weight for fun. 

Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

What age are most of these male wrestlers?
Would you agree most of them are growing and not done growing until they are in there 20s?
So a young wrestler and most of them in this weight classes are younger (the stats back that up) comes into HS or even Jr High they are in those weight classes you can be assured they are not generally muscled up in any way. Some are of course because they know the significant of a good strength and conditioning program. So they are at age where they are growing you can put the weight on them. Good strength program with proper nutrition and you can optimize the individual for peek strength and endurance. One of the big issue is I have seen in Wisconsin wrestling is the concept you have to cut to be stronger than your opponent. If a kid is close to the fat % cuts hard they are cutting water and in many cases muscle. They are doing this because of this ridiculous concept of cutting=wins.....I have better idea; learn technique and get a good strength and conditioning program going in the program. Sure weights are ok but functional training far exceeds the results for muscular endurance, flexibility and useable strength and speed. By the way we Have done this. We have put good lean muscle on athletes over the summer and fall. The bigger the athlete the more we can accomplish. We also through hard work and a specific program have made the muscle they have more efficient. 

Again cutting weight classes is one way to improve quality of wrestling but it's not required if coaches would "wrestle the matches" and put more emphasis on the entire program and well being of their athletes. You know the good programs year after year they have the emphasis in the right places.

After all wrestling is the vehicle in which coaches teach; work ethic, sacrifice, team work, self worth, worm equals reward and it should include good health and fitness. Think about that statement next time a kid asks if they are close to 7% and want to cut more weight because they are ducking an opponent or challenge.......

Umm you just disagree with anything I post however contrary to your belief I do not just post,  I have done it we have done this many times with fantastic results in almost all cases the athlete moved up in weight and had fantastic success.  Your ignorance really bores me...

[Jimmy]

Mnbadger, if you gain ten percent body weight in one yr. which you agreed is doable. And you couple that with good nutrition and weightlifting. Throw in a dose of puberty ,which pretty much all males do. Granted not at the same time. Then maintain 7% at 110 pounds and also at 121 pounds would that not be almost all muscle added?

[Tims]

You guys getting on here talking about kids are going to grow when they hit puberty and they will put on 10 pounds of lean mass.  The key word is "WHEN" they hit puberty.  I'm sorry not every kid that wrestled 106 is an early bloomer and lets no insult people who disagree with you as though you are a some strength condition expert that is just going to rush each kids puberty cycle along because you say it's so to make your argument valid.

[wrastle63]

You guys getting on here talking about kids are going to grow when they hit puberty and they will put on 10 pounds of lean mass.  The key word is "WHEN" they hit puberty.  I'm sorry not every kid that wrestled 106 is an early bloomer and lets no insult people who disagree with you as though you are a some strength condition expert that is just going to rush each kids puberty cycle along because you say it's so to make your argument valid.

+100 hard to gain significant muscle mass before puberty in a short amount of time.

[ramjet]

You guys getting on here talking about kids are going to grow when they hit puberty and they will put on 10 pounds of lean mass.  The key word is "WHEN" they hit puberty.  I'm sorry not every kid that wrestled 106 is an early bloomer and lets no insult people who disagree with you as though you are a some strength condition expert that is just going to rush each kids puberty cycle along because you say it's so to make your argument valid.

+100 hard to gain significant muscle mass before puberty.

Well maybe you should do some research. Sure puberty has an impact and in some cases significant but you may be surprised. Plus functional training is more than just putting on muscle. It is taking muscle you have and making it more efficient.

[ChargerDad]

There is no rule that a wrestler must weigh 141.9 if he wants to wrestle 142.  We need to stop worrying about every ounce.  Kids may be able to fit into weight classes where they don't have to cut weight for duals. Manage your weight for whatever works the best for that wrestler at the time

In your scenario if a wrestler is managing to wrestle 138 in an individual tournament there is no reason he can't weigh 138 and wrestle 142 at a dual.

If they are cutting for tourney weight classes, they would have to continue to cut for a dual even though they could make that weight without cutting because if they didn't it would reset their descent plan and they couldn't make their tourney weight for the next tournament.   That's my point.. You'd have to make 138.4 even though you would be wrestling 142.  Obviously I understand you can weigh less than the weight class, that is central to my point.  This is what makes different weight classes impractical.  Kids would be making their tourney weight at a dual, or within a few .1's anyway, so why even bother with the different weight classes.

[wrastle63]

You guys getting on here talking about kids are going to grow when they hit puberty and they will put on 10 pounds of lean mass.  The key word is "WHEN" they hit puberty.  I'm sorry not every kid that wrestled 106 is an early bloomer and lets no insult people who disagree with you as though you are a some strength condition expert that is just going to rush each kids puberty cycle along because you say it's so to make your argument valid.

+100 hard to gain significant muscle mass before puberty.

Well maybe you should do some research. Sure puberty has an impact and in some cases significant but you may be surprised. Plus functional training is more than just putting on muscle. It is taking muscle you have and making it more efficient.

So.... you agree to what I said lol 

[Tims]

Yea that 90-95 Functional muscle bound kid is going to have a field day with that 110 pounder. (Sarcasm)

[ramjet]

You folks are loosing the context of my post.

I see kids every year going in thinking if they cut weight they are better wrestler or have better chance of winning.

That total BS it takes so much more including great technique and a solid strength and strength and conditioning program.

Diet and hard work can put muscle on a wrestler. Getting into deep water and not run out of gas is very important to success. I am saying cutting weight classes is NOT the end of wrestling and could have some positive impact if folks would keep an open mind. Will it increase participation? Heck I don't know but surely Board shorts didn't but many said it would.

Weight cutting is not always weight optimization there is a huge difference.