Reducing Weight Classes

imnofish · May 30, 2019, 03:27:23 PM

Quote from: padre on May 30, 2019, 01:54:22 PM
Quote from: imnofish on May 30, 2019, 01:20:48 PM
Quote from: Ghetto on May 30, 2019, 11:42:39 AM
To be clear, a losing record at the Wisconsin state tournament is very rare. In other states, it is very common.

In SOME other states. Not common in Iowa or Illinois, for sure.

Not COMMON in ANY states besides those that have very low numbers statewide and have to travel just to get meets. I knew a family in a southern state recently that only had one youth tournament in their entire state each weekend....so no its not common in places where wrestling has any type of numbers. Remember also in these states there isn't even a sectional because of numbers...it goes regionals to state....if that happened here there would be a lot of kids with losing records also.

Yes, in those cases BOTH 106 pounders get to go to state.

padre · May 30, 2019, 04:00:05 PM

Lots of peculiar things about Georgia. Number 1 they have four divisions. Number 2 there are a lot of kids with less than 10 matches. I'm not sure exactly why that is but if you look at their regionals many classes have kids with no record.

padre · May 30, 2019, 04:05:24 PM

Missouri also has four divisions and 16 kids per division.

Alabama with seven divisions and just a regional.

Numbers can always be skewed for one reason or another.

asdfg · May 30, 2019, 04:29:28 PM

A stats teacher told me this story---During WWII, the US gov't spent countless hours and dollars (and lives) trying to reduce planes getting shot down. They had the best and brightest recording where bullets were hitting planes that came back after dogfights and missions. They then reinforced those areas in the hopes of saving lives. Unfortunately the results were an increase in downed planes. Finally, someone spoke up and offered the suggestion of recording where the planes did NOT get shot, as obviously the planes were still flying, so why record what is NOT causing the planes to crash. The results were immediate.

My point is--Even by his own mission, Ghetto is cherry picking and these whole Georgia postings are perfect example of how numbers can actually mean nothing. Hopefully the decision makers in WI are not making plans based off flawed #'s or what other states are doing. PA is apples to oranges to WI (as is GA, or MO).

imnofish · May 30, 2019, 09:18:53 PM

Quote from: padre on May 30, 2019, 04:00:05 PM
Lots of peculiar things about Georgia. Number 1 they have four divisions. Number 2 there are a lot of kids with less than 10 matches. I'm not sure exactly why that is but if you look at their regionals many classes have kids with no record.

Could it be that records don't follow wrestlers into a new weight class? If kids move to a new weight late in the season, that could eliminate most of their matches from their records.

Ghetto · May 30, 2019, 10:48:44 PM

Wisconsin will go with whatever the national federation does.

ramjet · May 31, 2019, 06:45:48 AM

Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

MNbadger · May 31, 2019, 09:44:08 AM

Over what period of time?
Is this a kid who has never lifted or has?
Wrestlers cut weight because it works. Being close to as lean as possible makes a wrestler more competitive. No one cuts weight for fun.

Quote from: ramjet on May 31, 2019, 06:45:48 AM
Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

bulldog · May 31, 2019, 10:19:19 AM

Okay...I am catching up...let's see if I got this. We are saying Wisconsin is dropping participation in the sport of wrestling in high school. Some feel the answer is to reduce weight classes. Some say Georgia is a bad example. But has more opportunity for a kid (even with a poor record) to get to state. Georgia's participation numbers in the sport of wrestling has increased over the years according to a flowrestling report.

Could there be a connection? More opportunity = more participation? Some may say this waters down the state tournament. I would ask what is the goal? Increase numbers participating or creating an elite only state tournament?

padre · May 31, 2019, 10:38:29 AM

Quote from: bulldog on May 31, 2019, 10:19:19 AM
Okay...I am catching up...let's see if I got this. We are saying Wisconsin is dropping participation in the sport of wrestling in high school. Some feel the answer is to reduce weight classes. Some say Georgia is a bad example. But has more opportunity for a kid (even with a poor record) to get to state. Georgia's participation numbers in the sport of wrestling has increased over the years according to a flowrestling report.

Could there be a connection? More opportunity = more participation? Some may say this waters down the state tournament. I would ask what is the goal? Increase numbers participating or creating an elite only state tournament?

Plus 100000

padre · May 31, 2019, 10:41:14 AM

Quote from: MNbadger on May 31, 2019, 09:44:08 AM
Over what period of time?
Is this a kid who has never lifted or has?
Wrestlers cut weight because it works. Being close to as lean as possible makes a wrestler more competitive. No one cuts weight for fun.
Quote from: ramjet on May 31, 2019, 06:45:48 AM
Give me a 95 lb kid and with proper diet and training you can put 10# of lean muscle on them.

We put too much emphasis on cutting thinking it puts kids in better position s to win....

Some are ready to put on mass and some are not. My oldest could have by 5th grade put on muscle had he chosen to. My middle lifted and lifted and his body type did not allow him to until after his sophomore year.

If their body type(which many 95 lbers are) are skinny and lean there is not a lot you can do but tone.

Tims · May 31, 2019, 11:17:04 AM

My youngest son weighed 83 pounds as an 8th grader which should of been his freshman year. The thought that you can take the everyday 95 pound kid and say i know for a fact i can put 10 pounds on him/her is laughable. You are not putting 10 pounds of lean muscle on kids bodies who have not yet matured and ready for it. I'm not a know it all but i have coached high school wrestling for 23 years and my experience says otherwise.

Ghetto · May 31, 2019, 01:00:40 PM

Quote from: bulldog on May 31, 2019, 10:19:19 AM
Okay...I am catching up...let's see if I got this. We are saying Wisconsin is dropping participation in the sport of wrestling in high school. Some feel the answer is to reduce weight classes. Some say Georgia is a bad example. But has more opportunity for a kid (even with a poor record) to get to state. Georgia's participation numbers in the sport of wrestling has increased over the years according to a flowrestling report.

Could there be a connection? More opportunity = more participation? Some may say this waters down the state tournament. I would ask what is the goal? Increase numbers participating or creating an elite only state tournament?

It's an interesting premise.

I'll look into other states.

I am for sending more than one entrant per school to regionals in a weight. There are kids who are stuck behind a better kid that are good enough to make it to state.

Handles II · May 31, 2019, 01:09:28 PM

Quote from: bulldog on May 31, 2019, 10:19:19 AM
Okay...I am catching up...let's see if I got this. We are saying Wisconsin is dropping participation in the sport of wrestling in high school. Some feel the answer is to reduce weight classes. Some say Georgia is a bad example. But has more opportunity for a kid (even with a poor record) to get to state. Georgia's participation numbers in the sport of wrestling has increased over the years according to a flowrestling report.

Could there be a connection? More opportunity = more participation? Some may say this waters down the state tournament. I would ask what is the goal? Increase numbers participating or creating an elite only state tournament?

Most certainly to some, having the best, THE champ, is the most important. These are fervent fans/parents typically, with a few really competitive kids wanting this. However, I don't see that creating many divisions or state champions is the actual answer to the decline in wrestling. There are states that have more divisions than ours that are suffering losses in participation too. Some states, like Georgia, wrestling is sort of a "new" thing and that is probably more of a driving force than how many kids are state qualifiers.

DocWrestling · May 31, 2019, 02:32:46 PM

There is very little wrong with our state tournament or individual tournament series other than some format issues that many of us would like to see changed like maybe double elimination and eliminating regionals weekend. I don't think the individual tournament has any affect on participation in a bad way. It is possible that if we doubled the number of kids that wrestled at state it might increase overall participation but still not sure I would support that.

The problem recognized in Pennsylvania, Minnesota, Iowa, etc is the duals and the team aspect. If duals did not exist I don't think anyone would be recommending changes.

Discussing state tournaments is pointless. The individual aspect of wrestling is doing fine. The team aspect is suffering greatly and some like me believe that improving the team aspect will have a positive affect on participation numbers especially if it was improved at the JV and middle school level.