Reducing Weight Classes

[crossface21]

Per Willie Saylor(Flowrestling) on Twitter: Was told by sources that NFHS was having a meeting and moving in the direction of reducing weights. That meeting was about a month ago and PIAA just said they want to go 12 with or without NFHS adopting.

[dad 2 5]

what are they thinking for the weights?

[downtown]

It would be a shame if they eliminated weight classes.  I used to be in the camp to bring it down to 12 weight classes because that is what the regional numbers showed.  But after closely watching the top teams and the bottom teams in the state for many years it became apparent that no matter how many fewer weight classes you have the bottom teams won't be any better.  Consequently you will now punish the best teams in the state that have the best top to bottom lineup/kids in the state and take away varsity spots for those kids.  That would be a shame to take away a varsity spot from a Stoughton, Mukwonago, Ellsworth, Freedom, Stratford, Fennimore.  Just so a lesser team can feel better about themselves because with only 12 weight classes they are now only forfeiting 2 classes instead of 4 and can be more competitive in duals. Meanwhile a very talented kid (from a top ranked team) who has been in the sport probably his whole life is now without a varsity spot because his spot has been eliminated.  Promote the sport, work harder to recruit kids.  It is not the top teams fault that certain programs fail.  Chad Steldt built a powerhouse within a couple of years and has maintained it in middle of nowhere Fennimore.  If it can be done there it can be done anywhere.  You just need to find the right coach and find the right people to help you build it.  Stop taking away from the programs that work the hardest.

[ramjet]

Opportunity is not lost or does not have to be lost.

12 top wrestlers for varsity. Competition is a good thing.

Increase JV opportunities and development.

Competition breeds perfection.

Development results better technique and increased experience at a pace that guarantees higher quality.

Participation trophies ruin the sport.

[downtown]

Opportunity is not lost or does not have to be lost.

12 top wrestlers for varsity. Competition is a good thing.

Increase JV opportunities and development.

Competition breeds perfection.

Development results better technique and increased experience at a pace that guarantees higher quality.

Participation trophies ruin the sport.

You are completely wrong. Denying kids who their whole life have put the time and the work in to earn a varsity spot for a high level team is wrong.  Just so teams who don't work as hard don't have to look foolish in a dual???  It has nothing to do with a participation trophy. If anything the lesser teams are the ones that are putting in the effort that would earn them a participation trophy.  I am sure the two kids on the Mukwonago team who were former state qualifiers who couldn't crack the lineup this year had no problems with their technique and their development was just fine over the years.  Now take two more kids out of that lineup and show me how that is more equitable and creating wrestling opportunities.  Those kids don't need to be jv. What needs to happen is that teams that can't field a full lineup need to quit complaining and get working.  Call it what it is.

[Numbers]

How would wrestling survive with only 12 weights?

I am wondering how basketball can still be played with only 5 players on the court at a time?  There are kids that have been working hard their whole life and some "varsity" kids play only a few minutes a game.  Basketball has full JV and freshman (or JV2) teams too.

Part of the issue in wrestling is we do not have JV teams.  So in wrestling it is varsity or bust.  Few, if any, JV dual tournaments because few teams can field a varsity team much less a JV team.  In many communities a JV wrestler is viewed as a non-varsity wrestler.  A sophomore starter on the JV basketball team is viewed as a future varsity player.  Not that I am in favor of reducing to 10 weights, but without that, how does JV team wrestling in Wisconsin ever happen?

[wrestlersdad]

Just so teams who don't work as hard don't have to look foolish in a dual???

I hope this was not meant to sound the way it came across.  Just because a team is not filling all weight classes doesn't mean they don't work just as hard as a team that does.

[Ghetto]

Opportunity is not lost or does not have to be lost.

12 top wrestlers for varsity. Competition is a good thing.

Increase JV opportunities and development.

Competition breeds perfection.

Development results better technique and increased experience at a pace that guarantees higher quality.

Participation trophies ruin the sport.

You are completely wrong. Denying kids who their whole life have put the time and the work in to earn a varsity spot for a high level team is wrong.  Just so teams who don't work as hard don't have to look foolish in a dual???  It has nothing to do with a participation trophy. If anything the lesser teams are the ones that are putting in the effort that would earn them a participation trophy.  I am sure the two kids on the Mukwonago team who were former state qualifiers who couldn't crack the lineup this year had no problems with their technique and their development was just fine over the years.  Now take two more kids out of that lineup and show me how that is more equitable and creating wrestling opportunities.  Those kids don't need to be jv. What needs to happen is that teams that can't field a full lineup need to quit complaining and get working.  Call it what it is.

I can tell you with 100% confidence that there are kids in the Mukwonago room who are wrestling JV who would be varsity on probably 90% of the teams in the state. Let's say 80% to be fair. They seem to survive. They also don't quit. I am always in awe of what their program does. That said, it's about more than just that one team. Someone did this on Twitter with the "which of these hammers shouldn't be a state champion" argument.

It takes a village. Mukwonago has coaches at every level committed to sticking with the program years after their kids are gone. Some didn't even have kids in the program. That is a rare group of men they have there.

If the argument is that teams just aren't working hard, then 60% of the teams in D1 are not. Almost 80% of the D3 teams. Do we really think that? We think that 80% of the coaches in D3 aren't working hard?

[Ghetto]

When this happens, remember who keeps bringing it up year after year. 

[MNbadger]

You are dead on.  There are places where even Dan Gable could not build a winning program (that is if you measure winning by duals).  There are many different ways to measure success.

Just so teams who don't work as hard don't have to look foolish in a dual???

I hope this was not meant to sound the way it came across.  Just because a team is not filling all weight classes doesn't mean they don't work just as hard as a team that does.

[Handles II]

Opportunity is not lost or does not have to be lost.

12 top wrestlers for varsity. Competition is a good thing.

Increase JV opportunities and development.

Competition breeds perfection.

Development results better technique and increased experience at a pace that guarantees higher quality.

Participation trophies ruin the sport.

You are completely wrong. Denying kids who their whole life have put the time and the work in to earn a varsity spot for a high level team is wrong.  Just so teams who don't work as hard don't have to look foolish in a dual???  It has nothing to do with a participation trophy. If anything the lesser teams are the ones that are putting in the effort that would earn them a participation trophy.  I am sure the two kids on the Mukwonago team who were former state qualifiers who couldn't crack the lineup this year had no problems with their technique and their development was just fine over the years.  Now take two more kids out of that lineup and show me how that is more equitable and creating wrestling opportunities.  Those kids don't need to be jv. What needs to happen is that teams that can't field a full lineup need to quit complaining and get working.  Call it what it is.

I guess we should have made a weight class for every kid who ever worked hard but couldn't beat the varsity guy?  Your admission that this could help TEAMS be more competitive shows you know that this is actually a good thing for the sport. The problem is you are concerned more about a few individuals (who still have the opportunity to wrestle for their team) than the overall health and competitiveness of teams.

You mentioned some specific examples.  Now... we know that sometimes, in some sports, certain schools due to their past performances get kids who transfer in, and the home-town, hard-worker, gets bumped out of the line up. I haven't ever heard any sympathy for that kid other than "don't like it? work harder, get better, and earn your spot back" . So what's up with the concern with different weight classes?

And, what about this posibility...  Kids who transfer to struggling teams? Kids who say, "I want to wrestle varsity and the neighboring team has a weight class I could fit in."  Not many people bad-mouth a kid going to a strong program or the strong program from accepting kids (I won't say recruiting but some people might be thinking that), but now, we might have a reverse trend. One that could really benefit programs with fewer kids. One that could breathe some new life into small schools. Is this a bad thing? Will we say that small program shouldn't have those kids? Or will we embrace it as a possible way that reducing weight classes actually helps a struggling program work it's way up the ladder as we have watched happen with larger programs?  Success can breed success.

[Flates]

If they reduce the weight classes then the kids to suffer the most will be the smallest. You can teach technique and strength but you cannot teach a kid to grow.  Weight training only can give so much.  Also the number of kids being held back will increase.

[Handles II]

If they reduce the weight classes then the kids to suffer the most will be the smallest. You can teach technique and strength but you cannot teach a kid to grow.  Weight training only can give so much.  Also the number of kids being held back will increase.

So the kids in the lowest weight class will suffer the most? I'm not sure if I follow. Or are you saying that our lower weight classes will be cut?  Well, that is a possibility, as it could be for a higher weight class.  For sure this could create more competition among various teams.  Some schools seem to always be loaded at the bottom. Some loaded at the top. Some in the middle and are weaker at bottom and top.

[Flates]

They always look to cut the lowest.  The 106 and 113 pounders will now be folded into 108.  Kids who struggle to reach 106 now have to go to 108 with 113 pounders.  I know of sophomores and juniors who are below 106.  Why not get rid of 220 and decrease heavyweight ceiling.

[ramjet]

Opportunity is not lost or does not have to be lost.

12 top wrestlers for varsity. Competition is a good thing.

Increase JV opportunities and development.

Competition breeds perfection.

Development results better technique and increased experience at a pace that guarantees higher quality.

Participation trophies ruin the sport.

You are completely wrong. Denying kids who their whole life have put the time and the work in to earn a varsity spot for a high level team is wrong.  Just so teams who don't work as hard don't have to look foolish in a dual???  It has nothing to do with a participation trophy. If anything the lesser teams are the ones that are putting in the effort that would earn them a participation trophy.  I am sure the two kids on the Mukwonago team who were former state qualifiers who couldn't crack the lineup this year had no problems with their technique and their development was just fine over the years.  Now take two more kids out of that lineup and show me how that is more equitable and creating wrestling opportunities.  Those kids don't need to be jv. What needs to happen is that teams that can't field a full lineup need to quit complaining and get working.  Call it what it is.

Nobody would be denied an opportunity they have the same opportunity as anyone else on the roster.

Yes teams need to recruit better.