Rules to help keep kids enjoying and involved in wrestling?

[Handles II]

Again, I never meant for anything to be against your profession. As you admit, there are comparisons and that is what I did, made a comparison. I apologize if you took it as an insult against your job. I'm a big fan of counselors and feel there should be at maximum a 1:100 counselor/student ratio in our schools.

You did I am skewed against throws. Not true in the least.

Other posters brought up the headsteal and it isn't about getting my way, unless that means we can reverse this downward trend.
I could care less what type of change actually occurs, but it should be obvious to all that something, maybe quite a few things, needs changing.

But are we willing to do anything? Anything at all?  Often it seems not.  Why? Well because some kids stay in the sport and succeed so maybe we think that's ok. The others we never hear from again so they don't matter to us. Parents don't come on here and talk about why their kids quit.  And the few that do, even if it's a reason brought up over and over, we don't change anything. That's a problem.  All we do is say coaches need to recruit more, and get brand-new kids to come out in high school.  

[bigG]

Good points. I'll agree to agree.  I guess I've just heard so many youth parents and coaches complain about the one move, I got a little ticked and felt :"Jeez, this move is so dang easy to stop and turn into two, even more if you leg turk to finish the hip heist." When reffing the little guys, I hear how parents gripe when it's done to their kid, as if it's cheap.

Either way, we both want to improve wrestling. Hope your kids kick butt.

[ramjet]

The issue is the refs cannot even stay on top of the choke how do you expect them to stay on top of outlawing one move at certain ages?

[bigG]

That's why we try to find more experienced refs. Ex wrestlers (not kids) who've been around. They've reffed (big) kids in practice, so they're ready for the tikes and up. Good to have that base of former wrestlers, and, if a HS kid does ref, have the old man in the corner and tell them to stop when they see a move evolve into a more dangerous level.

But I have to side with Ram on this.  Outlawing a move might not do much. But, if a great majority of wrestling smart folks think it will help, can't hurt too bad to try. can alsways go GR.

[bigoil]

Youth tournaments have done these for a long time:Shorter matches, Some takedowns only
Changes I have seen over time: Started the 4 man bracket (3 matches for everyone, no two and done).
Bracket to ability, no weighins, no set weight.

[ramjet]

I said early on legislating success never works long term.

Wrestling is tough sport we water it down?

Nope we do way to much of that today as it is. Wrestling can be a very unforgiving sport yes it can be tough as heck. So some think watering it down will fix participation issues?

Nope it's a society/ culture issue that's why we are where are today.

[ramjet]

Here all go awesome stuff 

https://www.facebook.com/FloWrestling/videos/1671993102854518/

[imnofish]

I will ad this those kids who practice throws also know how to "roll with the throw" less likey to be injured from one.

I think the declining numbers or "fun" factor are created by the culture in "the room" and on "the mat" and by those who run those rooms. I have seen the Club my son works at take those kids to pool and have an absolute riot and so much fun it's crazy to watch. They make fun in the practice room. They make something that kids want to join with many activities. They show kids how to be successful and how to loose with dignity. The adults understand that poor behaviour is not tolerated that wrestling is not sprint it is journey with hills and pot holes.

Absolutely agree!  We always worked hard in my practice room, but we found ways to make it fun, too. 

[Handles II]

Youth tournaments have done these for a long time:Shorter matches, Some takedowns only
Changes I have seen over time: Started the 4 man bracket (3 matches for everyone, no two and done).
Bracket to ability, no weighins, no set weight.

Good post Oil, some of these things that are related to the structure of the tournament, less so the actual match other than amount of time and some takedown-only or start in standing position tournaments. You state these have been in youth wrestling for a long time. Have we found them to be beneficial to the individuals and the sport as a whole? 

Other than these couple of things and sometimes a warning for locked hands, is there anything different than HS/College for our future? Should there be?

[Handles II]

I said early on legislating success never works long term.

Wrestling is tough sport we water it down?

Nope we do way to much of that today as it is. Wrestling can be a very unforgiving sport yes it can be tough as heck. So some think watering it down will fix participation issues?

Nope it's a society/ culture issue that's why we are where are today.

When we had 16,000 HS wrestlers, did we have as many kids starting at PreK-2 levels? If not, then yes, the demographic has changed. Wouldn't it be wise to focus on that changing demographic? Isn't that what any business (which clubs are) should do?
Would a business attempt to change their focus to keep more returning customers while adding new ones?
Why shouldn't wrestling?
Because wrestling is a very physically and demanding sport, there is nothing that can be changed to help these youngest participants move towards HS wrestling? How would keeping more kids in the sport equate to "watering it down"?

[littleguy301]

I will ad this those kids who practice throws also know how to "roll with the throw" less likey to be injured from one.

I think the declining numbers or "fun" factor are created by the culture in "the room" and on "the mat" and by those who run those rooms. I have seen the Club my son works at take those kids to pool and have an absolute riot and so much fun it's crazy to watch. They make fun in the practice room. They make something that kids want to join with many activities. They show kids how to be successful and how to loose with dignity. The adults understand that poor behaviour is not tolerated that wrestling is not sprint it is journey with hills and pot holes.

I think the fun factor is missing in several sports not just wrestling.

I ask people to take a look at their own high school and the demands each sport has for their respective sports.

football, training year around, camps, drills, 7 on 7 during the summer
basketball, same as above
baseball, batting practice basically year around, weight lifting, club ball, fall ball spring ball, dome ball
wrestling, camps, weight lifting, drilling in the summer and so on

also then take alook at what those kids that are in those sports do outside of sports
church takes a day or 2 during the week
study hours after school
play practice
band
after school clubs
work

just talked with a high school kid and he told me what he did that day
weight room at 6:45 am
school until 3:17
baseball practice until 6 pm
supper and school work until 8 pm
hung out with his girlfriend until 10
then repeat.

I am sure that 100% wasnt given to everything during the day but how many of us adults want to put in a 13 hour shift of work. just isnt fun.

until we realize that expectation of teenage kids are not the same as us coaches and parents that are several years older, we are going to continue to lose kids because of the fun factor!

[bigoil]

I said early on legislating success never works long term.

Wrestling is tough sport we water it down?

Nope we do way to much of that today as it is. Wrestling can be a very unforgiving sport yes it can be tough as heck. So some think watering it down will fix participation issues?

Nope it's a society/ culture issue that's why we are where are today.

When we had 16,000 HS wrestlers, did we have as many kids starting at PreK-2 levels? If not, then yes, the demographic has changed. Wouldn't it be wise to focus on that changing demographic? Isn't that what any business (which clubs are) should do?
Would a business attempt to change their focus to keep more returning customers while adding new ones?
Why shouldn't wrestling?
Because wrestling is a very physically and demanding sport, there is nothing that can be changed to help these youngest participants move towards HS wrestling? How would keeping more kids in the sport equate to "watering it down"?

I think the beginning of this is where the problem lies. Was there K wrestling in the 70's, I don't think so. In fact the Y led many communities wrestling kids programs turned over to the MS.

I don't find anything wrong with the K start but personally did not push my kid into it, I was a little nervous that it took him until 6th grade to join wrestling. When you start is definitely a factor, how much you do when you start and at what age is as big or bigger of a factor.

Your other question to me on what is different, the bracketing is definitely different and I believe that helps keep kids around. Getting smacked around and wrestling 2 matches is not going to keep a kid in, when he can wrestle kids of the same ability that allows him to possibly stay long enough to show improvement.

Not weighing in keeps parents wanting to keep their kid in.

[Coach V]

We used to have 10 seconds on headlocks for k-2. Then put the guy on his back on bottom and wrestle. Maybe we will again if we keep the K-2 division. Headlocks are not the problem. Amount of competition and how parents handle it are a couple factors. Kids cry just as much from a half nelson or arm bar. Short practices and fun for k-2 is important. Its ok for your kid to want to wrestle more and you say no. Keep them hungry. I think scrimmages or 2-4 team duals are the best.

[ramjet]

I did not say nothing could be done.

I am saying I agree on age for the high level competition should be above k-2.

Like many make wrestling fun. I remember our youth football one of the fun things we do d was a bowling and pizza party the kids absolutely loved that party. Many clubs do tumbling at young ages and make the event fun.

I really like the idea of more duals.

Fun=Greco and freestyle... why? More relaxed setting and allot more fun sure Greco no worry about leg attacks my son loved it. Sure it was tough and physical but he liked the atmosphere the fellowship and it showed he had fun. Like BigOil my son started later in life. He did not suffer burnout like so many pushed so hard so soon. But wrestling must be preserved as the sport it is. What the heck is wrong at youth to have a pizza party or ice cream party the pool fun at State Greco and FS = Fun above all make it fun!!!

[Handles II]

Here is a list of possible/potential things that could be done or were suggested in this thread that may be helpful in keeping kids in the sport.

1. Parents in stands (or very limited on floor)
2. Starting kids later in the sport/No tournaments except possibly duals k-2
3. No weigh-ins at least for certain level/grade/ages
4. No head steals k-2 and perhaps up to 3-4
5. Making practices more "fun" (not sure how that could be implemented). 
6. "Beginner" brackets with possibly some modified rules for new kids 3-4/5-6

Let's pretend that we are a proactive group, looking for ways to keep kids involved in the sport into and perhaps beyond HS. Would these work?
What I mean by that is; Are there any of these 5 things (as well as some other ideas) that almost certainly would cause more kids to quit than already do?

If we really don't think that these things would cause more kids to quit, and maybe they would prevent some kids from quitting, then WHY aren't we, or why don't we, start implementing them?
What causes us to keep doing the same exact things that we know are hurting the sport?