My D1 Preseason Team Rankings

[DocWrestling]

The problem is that the money Greendale budgeted each year to the wrestling program is gone now even though I am sure they are pay Whitnall a small fee.

It is so tough to go back and ask them to expand their budget again in these tight times.  It is a very tiny small percentage that go to co-op and actually get program back.

The history given of the situation is really no different than what is going on at 100 other schools in this state

[aggressive]

It was said before that Greendale had more returning wrestlers to their conference tourney lineup than any team in the conference.

Blast Double, you wouldn't happen to be related to the Whitnall coach and that top Greendale wrestler, would you? I'm guessing a person in this situation may have had a giant hand in pushing the Greendale A.D. to do his bidding instead of sticking with his own team. What would someone in this position care about the other teams and the individual Whitnall wrestlers that this decision impacts, right?

The defense people are coming up with now for this co-op is just a big cover-up for their initial intentions.

[Blast Double]

/quote]

I was not implying that the history was different than anyone else's.  I was just heading off the argument that no effort was ever made to try and rebuild the program.

I think where most have a problem with this co-op is that most feel myself included is that a program that has 30plus kids on their team should not be co-op with anybody.I always thought that co-oping was a option for 2 programs with low #s co-op in order to improve overall #s.jmo.

Is this an issue then that needs to be dealt with by the WIAA?  Should there be a rule on the amount of wrestlers you need to be a stand alone program?  If you are in a co op and that number is reached by both schools should you have to go alone?  Also who else would be an option then for Greendale to co op with?  If 30 would be the cutoff how far out can they go, distance wise, before it is a dead issue?  Greenfield is closer by 2 miles but has larger numbers than Whitnall?  Why does everyone argue that Greenfield should have been the obvious choice if the driving force behind the co op is numbers?  IMO it is because people feel that the team would not have been as strong.  For the ones that are arguing about Greenfield being closer what about when Thomas More was the co op partner?  Why was there never a word arguing that they should not have been together?  

[Blast Double]

It was said before that Greendale had more returning wrestlers to their conference tourney lineup than any team in the conference.

Blast Double, you wouldn't happen to be related to the Whitnall coach and that top Greendale wrestler, would you? I'm guessing a person in this situation may have had a giant hand in pushing the Greendale A.D. to do his bidding instead of sticking with his own team. What would someone in this position care about the other teams and the individual Whitnall wrestlers that this decision impacts, right?

The defense people are coming up with now for this co-op is just a big cover-up for their initial intentions.

Aggressive if you remember correctly your numbers on the returning wrestlers were wrong? 

Tosa - 9
Greendale, Pewaukee, Whitnall, and Greenfield - 8
South Milwaukee - 7
Pius - 6
New Berlin - 5
Cudahy - 3

Just because I am related by marriage to a coach does not mean that I had a hand in anything?  I have never had a conversation with our new AD about anything let alone trying to get him to co op with another program.  And I have no idea what you are talking about with why I care about the individual Whitnall wrestlers?  If it is the fact that my son has been friends with some of those boys before this year then yes I care about them.  As I care about his friends that go to other schools such as Pewaukee!!  You are obviously someone who likes to try and stir the pot and only cares about wins and losses.  If you knew anything about me you would quickly realize that I am all for the kids.  All of this nonsense about bashing schools and trying to look for a conspiracy is crazy!! 

[Pheasant 1984]

I thought this was a pre season ranking thread!

[aggressive]

2014 Woodland Conference Tournament:
Greendale
106   Hensley, Nathan   9      
120   Welch, Thomas   11   
132   Jankowski, Chris   11      
138   Tabat, Logan   9      
145   Martinson, Eric   11   
152   Steinberg, Ken   10   
160   Feinas, Jake   11   
170   Kendall, Chase   10   
182   Rohde, Andy   11   

That's 9.  With a little recruiting and a few incoming freshmen, which you have, you had enough for a decent team.

[Blast Double]

2014 Woodland Conference Tournament:
Greendale
106   Hensley, Nathan   9      
120   Welch, Thomas   11   
132   Jankowski, Chris   11      
138   Tabat, Logan   9      
145   Martinson, Eric   11   
152   Steinberg, Ken   10   
160   Feinas, Jake   11   
170   Kendall, Chase   10   
182   Rohde, Andy   11   

That's 9.  With a little recruiting and a few incoming freshmen, which you have, you had enough for a decent team.

In order to be a returning wrestler you have to actually be on the team correct?  Both Logan Tabat and Kennedy Steinberg are not wrestling this year.  So I guess that drops our number down to 7.  Thanks for catching my error!!

[HMsDad]

So about them rankings............

[aggressive]

I can either say "that happens to every team" like one past poster or I can say "that's the impact a co-op has" like another.
You can choose. 

[tom37]

If people are concerned about making sure that a co-op is being done for the long term success of a program and not just a short term fix to make a run for a championship. Then it is a simple solve.  All members of a co-op team can compete for individual titles, but not team championships at conference, regionals, sectionals, and state for the first 2 years of the co-op. If the reason for the co-op is for the good of the kids and program then this restriction shouldn't matter.

[aggressive]

Tom37,  that is BRILLIANT.

[bkraus]

I have been that coach of a struggling program that reached out and made a co-op.  I used to be the head coach at NB Eisenhower and was one of the players in the NB schools deciding to co-op wrestling.  At that time West had a sustainable program. They very well might still on their own.  At Ike, I would get 20+ kids to fat test and come out for the first few weeks.  But they tended to quit for one reason or another, and for the viability of keeping wrestling an option for Ike students, I had to search out a co-op.  I would have 8-10 to end the season, and most would not be varsity caliber.  It just was lucky for me that I was in a two high school district and the school board obviously saw the cost savings of only running one program.  new Berlin instantly became a player in the Woodland after they combined for a year or two.  Now they have a sustainable program and things are good for New Berlin wrestling.  Whether I am for this co-op or not is irrelevant.  But one thing I think people need to stop saying is it had anything to do with a kid wanting to wrestle for his uncle.  He was only a freshmen last year.  if he wanted to wrestle for his uncle, he could have open enrolled and not been penalized for the school switch.  Hopefully this will help Greendale restore numbers.  I hope they wrestle just as many matches, if not more at GHS to promote the program there. 

[Blast Double]

If people are concerned about making sure that a co-op is being done for the long term success of a program and not just a short term fix to make a run for a championship. Then it is a simple solve.  All members of a co-op team can compete for individual titles, but not team championships at conference, regionals, sectionals, and state for the first 2 years of the co-op. If the reason for the co-op is for the good of the kids and program then this restriction shouldn't matter.

I think that would be a good idea for the WIAA to consider putting into the rules of a co op. 

[ElectricGuy]

Rankings - Boyz!  Rankings!



Any surprise teams from this past week?  Maybe we should start a new thread.........

I was impressed with Elkhorn added some new quality kids and saw improvements at some of their existing. IMO

[shouldvewrestled]

If people are concerned about making sure that a co-op is being done for the long term success of a program and not just a short term fix to make a run for a championship. Then it is a simple solve.  All members of a co-op team can compete for individual titles, but not team championships at conference, regionals, sectionals, and state for the first 2 years of the co-op. If the reason for the co-op is for the good of the kids and program then this restriction shouldn't matter.

And when said struggling team can't find a co-op partner because of this reason and we lose programs because of this we could complain about losing more teams? 

To me the gripe sounds like sour grapes that "my team" might now not be able to beat this team now.  Within the rules they co-oped, WIAA didn't stop it.  Have to work harder and beat them now.  Kids open enroll all the time to a "better" team with better coaches and more practice partners.  Why allow that anymore either then.  In the grand scheme of things in D1 this year this co-op won't win a state title anyway but if they do more power to them for knocking off a nationally ranked team.  So a team that was favored to win their region or section now has to work harder to make sure they beat said co-op sounds like creating good competition.  Why sit and complain when you can just go ok the WIAA allowed lets get to work and beat them.