Reduction of weights argument

[Ghetto]

I show up at kids club. I will also start help coaching at the middle school on days I don't have my own kids. Luke Davey, my young assistant, is our middle school coach. Billy Kraus, my other assistant, works in the high school.

I am also going to start lifting in the weight room at Bay after school, and offer our equipment to football players so they can work out with our implements from Hades (kettle bells, sandbags, russian bags, etc.) again, on days I don't have my own kids.

I know there is more I can do. We are going to change the way our kids club is run, and I am going to get more involved in that too as a coach when I can.

[aarons23]

Do you think your numbers will keep improving like they have the last three years!

[Ghetto]

I didn't see them dropping like they did. For my sanity they need to improve. We have had 20 something in the room for the past few years.

[littleguy301]

Lets use common sense.  There is no way the average wrestling roster in Wisconsin amongst all divisions is 22.

What do you feel it is?

[Say-Say]

I show up at kids club. I will also start help coaching at the middle school on days I don't have my own kids. Luke Davey, my young assistant, is our middle school coach. Billy Kraus, my other assistant, works in the high school.

I am also going to start lifting in the weight room at Bay after school, and offer our equipment to football players so they can work out with our implements from Hades (kettle bells, sandbags, russian bags, etc.) again, on days I don't have my own kids.

I know there is more I can do. We are going to change the way our kids club is run, and I am going to get more involved in that too as a coach when I can.

I think this is a key component to recruitment. Getting the youth kids out to watch and support the high school team, and getting some of the high school kids and coaches to engage with the youth, with emphasis on the middle school aged kids. It's great to have kids wrestling in youth, but if they aren't hanging in and wrestling in high school, that's a problem.

[DocWrestling]

Lets use common sense.  There is no way the average wrestling roster in Wisconsin amongst all divisions is 22.

What do you feel it is?

My impression is that there is a small percentage of teams (less than 10%) that end the season with more than 30 kids in the room and quite a few with less than 20 and even less.  22 seemed like a lot and now that I think about it, it is probably close as I would probably put the average at about 18.  many of these D2 and D3 schools are going to destroy that average.

I do think wrestling coaches need to look at all the Saturdays they spend.  Most wrestlers are not excited for all those early mornings and long days and neither are there parents.  I don't think wrestling gets much support at home from parents when "Jimmy" says he wants to quit.  Parents are not there to push them back because of all the weekends and health issues also.  Coaches would probably enjoy more weekends off and it would be better for their families also but they all feel pressure to do the max by the rules or to keep up with what other coaches do.

Time to for some coaches to stop following and just doing the same as other coaches or what they did in their day.  It is about teaching and then preparing wrestlers for success.  Wrestling 10 less matches each year is not going to make your wrestler worse.  Break the stereotypes just like many sports physiologists will tell you that running is not appropriate/efficient training for wrestling other than for weight loss.

[Quack]

Lets use common sense.  There is no way the average wrestling roster in Wisconsin amongst all divisions is 22.

What do you feel it is?

My impression is that there is a small percentage of teams (less than 10%) that end the season with more than 30 kids in the room and quite a few with less than 20 and even less.  22 seemed like a lot and now that I think about it, it is probably close as I would probably put the average at about 18.  many of these D2 and D3 schools are going to destroy that average.

I do think wrestling coaches need to look at all the Saturdays they spend.  Most wrestlers are not excited for all those early mornings and long days and neither are there parents.  I don't think wrestling gets much support at home from parents when "Jimmy" says he wants to quit.  Parents are not there to push them back because of all the weekends and health issues also.  Coaches would probably enjoy more weekends off and it would be better for their families also but they all feel pressure to do the max by the rules or to keep up with what other coaches do.

Time to for some coaches to stop following and just doing the same as other coaches or what they did in their day.  It is about teaching and then preparing wrestlers for success.  Wrestling 10 less matches each year is not going to make your wrestler worse.  Break the stereotypes just like many sports physiologists will tell you that running is not appropriate/efficient training for wrestling other than for weight loss.

We missed a Saturday tourney and had other kids not make some due to ACT testing and being sick or what not. Missing those sure didn't help our team. My son and daughter had a total around 25 matches on the year. The most of any on our team was around 30. But we didn't advance even one kid to Sectionals. So having a lack of matches, didn't really help our team either. I know there has to be a fine balance. Some kids love the tourneys, some kids only like duals, some kids want to only wrestle JV and some only Varsity. We even had one kid that just wanted to come out to practice, and not do any meets.

So I think a coach needs to look at his team and figure out what is best for them. Unfortunately, it is had to predict what will be the best for an upcoming team, unless you have a lot of returning kids. It is kinda like making every kid in the room work on low singles. Most heavy weights, don't shoot low singles, so what is the importance of them practicing them to the extent that the 160 and below do?

[Roo]

Lets use common sense.  There is no way the average wrestling roster in Wisconsin amongst all divisions is 22.

What do you feel it is?

My impression is that there is a small percentage of teams (less than 10%) that end the season with more than 30 kids in the room and quite a few with less than 20 and even less.  22 seemed like a lot and now that I think about it, it is probably close as I would probably put the average at about 18.  many of these D2 and D3 schools are going to destroy that average.

I do think wrestling coaches need to look at all the Saturdays they spend.  Most wrestlers are not excited for all those early mornings and long days and neither are there parents.  I don't think wrestling gets much support at home from parents when "Jimmy" says he wants to quit.  Parents are not there to push them back because of all the weekends and health issues also.  Coaches would probably enjoy more weekends off and it would be better for their families also but they all feel pressure to do the max by the rules or to keep up with what other coaches do.

Time to for some coaches to stop following and just doing the same as other coaches or what they did in their day.  It is about teaching and then preparing wrestlers for success.  Wrestling 10 less matches each year is not going to make your wrestler worse.  Break the stereotypes just like many sports physiologists will tell you that running is not appropriate/efficient training for wrestling other than for weight loss.

I agree 100%....in my unofficial analysis of kids that wrestled in youth or MS and not in high school, or High Schooler's that quit...the number one reason they say is the amount(and length) of Saturday tournaments.  I'm sorry, but you can't tell me that missing one or two tournaments during the season makes one bit of difference.  For most wrestlers (and Coaches) the season is simply too long and arduous, we should start it later (after Thanksgiving) and reduce the number of Saturdays...I bet you would actually see the level of wrestling get better at the Tournaments that were attended.

[beastmode]

What I see and hear in my area, most of the highly successful high school teams have a awesome youth program with great numbers. The high school coaches get involved in the youth program and keep it fun. They not only get the kids hooked but also make the parents of those youth participating feel like they belong, even if they don't come from a wrestling background.

[jaguarwrestler]

What I see and hear in my area, most of the highly successful high school teams have a awesome youth program with great numbers. The high school coaches get involved in the youth program and keep it fun. They not only get the kids hooked but also make the parents of those youth participating feel like they belong, even if they don't come from a wrestling background.

that seems to be true in any sport... if a school has success in softball or football or whatever you can generally bet they have a good youth program in place. At the same time plenty of football teams and softball teams etc. are perennial doormats yet we don't talk about cutting the number of players to try and make them stronger. Cutting 2 weights doesn't make your youth program better or coaches better, the bottom 50% will still be the bottom 50% until they change the program. Instead of focusing on how to trim weights we should focus on how to increase participation.... imo that doesn't come from trimming weights but from building programs and promoting the sport with some of the suggestions I made.

[boowrestle]

Beastmode you hit it right on the head!!!If you have a good feeder program and get the parents on board it all pays off in the long run.Coaches at all 3 levels(youth,middle school and high school)need to be on same page.

[beastmode]

What I see and hear in my area, most of the highly successful high school teams have a awesome youth program with great numbers. The high school coaches get involved in the youth program and keep it fun. They not only get the kids hooked but also make the parents of those youth participating feel like they belong, even if they don't come from a wrestling background.

that seems to be true in any sport... if a school has success in softball or football or whatever you can generally bet they have a good youth program in place. At the same time plenty of football teams and softball teams etc. are perennial doormats yet we don't talk about cutting the number of players to try and make them stronger. Cutting 2 weights doesn't make your youth program better or coaches better, the bottom 50% will still be the bottom 50% until they change the program. Instead of focusing on how to trim weights we should focus on how to increase participation.... imo that doesn't come from trimming weights but from building programs and promoting the sport with some of the suggestions I made.

I agree 100%. My point is that recruiting the halls of the high school today is a short term fix. You can still do that for now but don't think that that is going to solve the problem. You need to build on the youth and JH programs. If you look around my area, West Central Wisconsin, we have some great programs that are perfect examples... Amery, Ellsworth, Spring Valley/Elmwood and Boyceville.

[neutral]

from Doc:
Time to for some coaches to stop following and just doing the same as other coaches or what they did in their day.  It is about teaching and then preparing wrestlers for success.  Wrestling 10 less matches each year is not going to make your wrestler worse.  Break the stereotypes just like many sports physiologists will tell you that running is not appropriate/efficient training for wrestling other than for weight loss.

from Quack:
We missed a Saturday tourney and had other kids not make some due to ACT testing and being sick or what not. Missing those sure didn't help our team. My son and daughter had a total around 25 matches on the year. The most of any on our team was around 30. But we didn't advance even one kid to Sectionals. So having a lack of matches, didn't really help our team either. I know there has to be a fine balance. Some kids love the tourneys, some kids only like duals, some kids want to only wrestle JV and some only Varsity. We even had one kid that just wanted to come out to practice, and not do any meets.
So I think a coach needs to look at his team and figure out what is best for them. Unfortunately, it is had to predict what will be the best for an upcoming team, unless you have a lot of returning kids. It is kinda like making every kid in the room work on low singles. Most heavy weights, don't shoot low singles, so what is the importance of them practicing them to the extent that the 160 and below do?

from me:
Agreed that weekend activity could be cut back.  Again - this isn't football or basketball ... (not all day and, depending on travel, often well into the evening).
Agreed that just running doesn't do much for endurance - but depending upon when & how much ... it's certainly a practical element of conditioning.  Starting practice with a short run gets the heart pumping & blood flowing.  Ending practice with a run (1 mile), then jog, then stretch ... following a series of some "30 secong goes" ... does a good deal for endurance.  Muscle fatigue resistance requires wrestling.  Mental fatigue resistance & breathing require cardio training - for which running is the only exercise available to the team simultaniously ... unless you've got a lot of eliptical machines in your training room.
Agreed - coaches have to be the ones to be bold enough to scale back competiton while retaining or improving a minimum level of quality of competition (geared to the level of his team) - which may require more year-to-year change in routine schedules than we are familiar with - but which challenges the team to improve ... with over-challenging them (too much).  I think most of us can think of at least 1 tournament our favorite team goes to that it would be no worse for the wear it it did not participate there.

[imnofish]

Years ago, when I was trying to build our middle school numbers, our conference had a schedule in which meets were every Tues. and Thurs., with practices on Mon. and Wed.  Schools didn't practice on Fri., because there was no activity buses running that day and we are all pretty spread out (rural).  With Wed. P.M. Confirmation classes, that left kids with only one or two practices per week.
I broke the mold (and made some folks upset) by refusing to schedule any Tues. meets and offering an optional Fri. practice for those with transportation available.  My logic was that we, as coaches, are teachers of the sport.  In our classrooms, do we give a test after every lesson?  That's essentially what our conference schedule was forcing us to do to wrestlers.  Within a couple of years, our numbers jumped from less than 20 kids to about 80 (6th, 7th, and 8th graders).  We had only 2 coaches, but several high school kids also volunteered to help at practice (which really improved their technique, too.  One wrestler (Steve Schaaf) served as an unpaid assistant for all 4 years and became an excellent high school coach (Chetek-Prairie Farm).  We also got 2 Sat. buses per season and focused on taking our kids on long trips to tournaments that offered a team trophy.  This minimized kids riding home with parents and promoted team bonding.  With more practices than competitions, we focused on basic skills, position, conditioning, responsibility, team loyalty, etc. and made up games and drills that made it fun, too.  Kids stayed with the program and wrestled well in competition.  Over time, I noticed a decrease in numbers, as the following occurred: 1) Kids started wrestling multiple weekend tournaments (some went on Fri., Sat., Sun.).  2) We had large numbers of kids participating in State Freestyle and Folkstyle tournaments (repeat placewinners started dropping out in 7th or 8th grade).  3) All youth sports programs started competing aggressively for the same kids; starting younger, increasing competitive events, extending the season length, etc.  
4) Our school district enrollment dropped dramatically.

Before I quit coaching, our numbers were about 30 kids per year, with about 2/3 of them sticking with it in high school.  Seldom got a new kid out in middle school, anymore.  

[1Iota]

This is an issue being faced by coaches in every sport.  Kids today have more options than in the past, Rugby, Lacrosse, Soccer, ski team, ect.  Combine that with the fact that less kids are multiple sport athletes, & you can see why every sport is fighting to keep kids.  I have spoken to our football coach who has pleaded with me to speak with a few of our year round wrestlers, that in their youth were stud football players & he is certain would be again at the HS level.  25 years ago it would have been a no brainer that these kids would play football.  Now they travel across the country all spring, summer, & into the fall participating in wresting tournaments.  It will never be the same as it was in the past no matter what changes are made.