WWCA looking for head coaches' opinions

[woody53]

I know that Handles true agenda is to get JHI, which I support 100%. Where we part in our opinions is cutting, I am against it with ever fiber of my body.
So it's time to ask Woody with the WIAA why no JHI like 40% of the nation has gone to.
Woody what is the main logistical issue with JHI in WI?

I can not answer that as I am a Subcontractor to the WIAA for the State Tournaments.

[littleguy301]

I know that Handles true agenda is to get JHI, which I support 100%. Where we part in our opinions is cutting, I am against it with ever fiber of my body.
So it's time to ask Woody with the WIAA why no JHI like 40% of the nation has gone to.
Woody what is the main logistical issue with JHI in WI?

I didnt realize it was 40% of the other states. I cannt find a link to show those 40% of states, do you have it so I can look please.

Thanks

[littleguy301]

Whats really sad is we have coaches here in Wisconsin wasting 7 pages of why we should cut weight classes and not a single one of them has started a thread about what we can do to attract and keep more wrestlers to the sport....not a single thread about what are the successful schools doing to be successful...not a single thread about how to get administrations to get on board and buy into your programs, not a single thread about building of good middle school programs and the things Kuakauna, LC, Coleman and others are doing to change middle school wrestling.....I guess its just easier to cut weight classes and hope we can field a team...its pretty sad.  I spent the weekend with a bunch of Illinois wrestling families...Illinios is miles ahead of us right now...not one of them and many are coaches thought cutting weight classes was a good idea.  States like Tennessee, Georgia Texas and Maryland are passing us up because we are more interested in cutting weight classes than actually doing things that will grow the sport.  Again Sad!!!

What are some of your ideas in making the sport grow?

Please start a thread with some ideas to incourage kids to come out for wrestling. Take the lead on this, please!

[aarons23]

Whats really sad is we have coaches here in Wisconsin wasting 7 pages of why we should cut weight classes and not a single one of them has started a thread about what we can do to attract and keep more wrestlers to the sport....not a single thread about what are the successful schools doing to be successful...not a single thread about how to get administrations to get on board and buy into your programs, not a single thread about building of good middle school programs and the things Kuakauna, LC, Coleman and others are doing to change middle school wrestling.....I guess its just easier to cut weight classes and hope we can field a team...its pretty sad.  I spent the weekend with a bunch of Illinois wrestling families...Illinios is miles ahead of us right now...not one of them and many are coaches thought cutting weight classes was a good idea.  States like Tennessee, Georgia Texas and Maryland are passing us up because we are more interested in cutting weight classes than actually doing things that will grow the sport.  Again Sad!!!

What are some of your ideas in making the sport grow?

Please start a thread with some ideas to incourage kids to come out for wrestling. Take the lead on this, please!

Nah...its just easier to cut weight classes.  Just follow this thread.

[Ghetto]

What would be the strategy behind reducing weight classes? To have less forfeits??

YES

What would happen to overall wrestling numbers if you reduce weight classes? Anyone disagree the participation numbers would go down?

THERE'S NO WAY OF KNOWING UNTIL WE TRY. THERE WERE 12 WEIGHTS IN 1988 AND THERE WERE MORE PARTICIPANTS THEN.

What would happen if participation numbers go down? Would all of those athletes go out for another sport?

THEY ARE ALREADY GOING DOWN, AND FAST. 900 LESS KIDS BODYFAT TESTED THIS YEAR THAN IN 2012

Are we looking for better competition? Let's admit the elite wrestlers are getting the better competition at Fargo not their individual state tournament.

AT LEAST FOR ME, I'M LOOKING AT WRESTLING AS A WHOLE. THE ELITE WILL STILL BE THE ELITE.

My two points:
1) This is high school sports - shouldn't we be more concerned with participation and getting kids involved then making for better dual meets?
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT BETTER DUAL MEETS WOULD GET MORE KIDS INVOLVED?
2) More participants = higher probability of improving the sport. Let's focus on improving the sport and attracting more people to it.
AGREED. MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP BLAMING COACHES FOR WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING. MAYBE THEY ARE. MAYBE THE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?

As a parent of a small kid I definitely have skin in this game - so don't want to hide that.
SAME HERE

Respectfully - what would we get out of fewer weight classes? I am not trying to be a jerk...I just don't understand the WHY???

POSSIBLY BETTER DUAL MEETS, WHICH COULD LEAD TO PEOPLE GETTING EXCITED ABOUT THE SPORT IN THEIR SCHOOL AND MORE KIDS COMING OUT. MORE MARQUEE MATCHES, WHERE KIDS HAVE TO WRESTLE OTHER GREAT KIDS, WHICH MIGHT BRING BUTTS TO SEATS, WHICH MIGHT PUT MORE KIDS IN THE ROOM. MORE MATCHES AT KIDS LEVELS, SO SOME TRULY JV KIDS CAN WRESTLE AT THEIR LEVEL AND POSSIBLY NOT QUIT.

[Ghetto]

How can anyone possibly look past the huge reduction in numbers and not want to try to change the system? I'll never apologize for thinking we have too many weights. Again, we had 8946 body fat test in 2012. 8007 this year, and the trend is on the way down.

Do we need to recruit better? Yes. As a sport we need to do a better job. We need to start right now.

Citing specific examples of schools isn't indicative of the entire state. There are some schools that do an amazing job of keeping tradition alive. I think that's awesome. Good for you. How about, instead of putting coaches down, you tell us what it is that you do, and possibly go to the WWCA and do a "professional development" on how you do things? Has anyone ever done that? I am pretty sure it hasn't been done. If you really care about wrestling, more than the program you work for, you'd help do something about the huge decline in numbers, instead of saying that others are inferior.

[littleguy301]

Whats really sad is we have coaches here in Wisconsin wasting 7 pages of why we should cut weight classes and not a single one of them has started a thread about what we can do to attract and keep more wrestlers to the sport....not a single thread about what are the successful schools doing to be successful...not a single thread about how to get administrations to get on board and buy into your programs, not a single thread about building of good middle school programs and the things Kuakauna, LC, Coleman and others are doing to change middle school wrestling.....I guess its just easier to cut weight classes and hope we can field a team...its pretty sad.  I spent the weekend with a bunch of Illinois wrestling families...Illinios is miles ahead of us right now...not one of them and many are coaches thought cutting weight classes was a good idea.  States like Tennessee, Georgia Texas and Maryland are passing us up because we are more interested in cutting weight classes than actually doing things that will grow the sport.  Again Sad!!!

What are some of your ideas in making the sport grow?

Please start a thread with some ideas to incourage kids to come out for wrestling. Take the lead on this, please!

Nah...its just easier to cut weight classes.  Just follow this thread.

I am asking an honest question. Yes there is to much talk on cutting weights and since you are against it and very open, I am taking the time to ask you what you think would work to get the sport growing? Seriously I bet you have some good ideas that maybe someone on here might use to get more kids out in their respective area.

[littleguy301]

Ghetto,
1. Get kids out early, basketball starts at age 5.
2. Get the parents bought in, traveling tournaments and social events. The coaches have to be there to hang with the young family's.

3. High school kids need to help recruit at the youth level, get the varsity guys to coach in the corners the kids eat it up.
4. Organize trips to the NCAA and the Olympic trials.
5. Get your top middle schoolers in the varsity practice a couple times a week.
6. Get on social media with all your wrestlers, watch them and befriend them and mom and dad.
7. Partner with a privet club, go help during GR/FS.
8. Go with to Fargo.
9. Create a great wrestling booster club.
10. If your to old to do that stuff, quit and find a cool young coach and numbers will go up.

1. I think most school clubs do get kids to start at around age 5
2. Great idea and should be done more. Getting the family additude when the kids are young and building relationships with parents that are positive.
3. That is another great idea. I will say though, that getting the high school kids there becomes tricky. Some dont have liscense to drive and others have jobs or after the high school season some are in other sports or their club freestyle/greco are at the same time
4. Well I am down with that but for the trials it is only every 4 years. NCAA, the cost could be out of the question for parents and coaches. Maybe watching on TV in a home as a group!
5. Another top flight idea though some school do have rules about middle school age kids being in the rule with the high schools and does the WIAA allow that?
6. Maybe not with the actually wrestlers but with parents. being an adult coach friending a teenager could be high on the creepy level plus really dont want to know what that student is up to unless it is your own child.
7. Another awesome idea. Cost could be an issue and location of clubs in certain areas could also be a problem. Though working with another school is high on the list if possible.
8. Well cost is another thing here. Unless your a Wisconsin coach, your not going to do much for that wrestler. That is a lot to ask of a coach that has family that may have other plans. Great idea and would be awesome but realisticly it could be a money situation.
9. Alot of schools have booster club. Be involved with those clubs as much as you can be and that will help out alot!
10. Problem is your probably right but finding that younger coach is an issue also. Many people that want to coach also hold outside jobs and usually those outside jobs kind of dictate when you can come and go and if your not going to be able to get to the school until late into the evening that could be a the kiss of death for the program. Sometimes you may have a coach that doesnt go above and beyound but they are still better than not having a coach.

Lots of great idea though I have to add that some maybe in the unicorn area but if you want to have sucess many of these ideas should be in place.

[madeyson]

What would happen to overall wrestling numbers if you reduce weight classes? Anyone disagree the participation numbers would go down?

THERE'S NO WAY OF KNOWING UNTIL WE TRY. THERE WERE 12 WEIGHTS IN 1988 AND THERE WERE MORE PARTICIPANTS THEN.

The generational differences between our youth in 1988 and today has a lot more to do with this then the # of weight classes. Wasn't the lowest class then 98#?


AGREED. MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP BLAMING COACHES FOR WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING. MAYBE THEY ARE. MAYBE THE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?
I hope my comments were not viewed as blaming coaches! Quite frankly we as parents and supporters of the sport need to be much more part of the solution then coaches. Yes we need to make changes to the system - I just can't think how less weight classes improves the sport.

Also - if WI has different weight classes then the rest of the country - how does a tournament like the Cheesehead work? Seems like it would create a lot of complexity. I think that tournament by itself has been one of the best things to happen to WI wrestling over the past 10+ years.

[Barou]

Barou, You aren't getting it. The WIAA will not approve JHI for wrestling.
It would need to have coaches from all sports to the A.D.'s and the A.D.'s pushing for it.
And...Apparently, the WWCA either understands this process, or simply decided that they didn't want to include it (or double elim) into the survey.

I think you're right that I'm not getting it.  Common sense legislation and evidence based rules and regulations make too much sense to me and I forget how some people refuse to consider that.  The WIAA has always been an anchor to wrestling and they are a closed-minded, arrogant group that would rather seek recognition to being national pioneers on a sportsmanship issue that didn't exist.  That's where their priorities begin.  JHI is about OPPORTUNITY for student athletes that is being executed successfully in other states.  Not like anyone is asking the WIAA to reinvent the wheel.  There would be new logistics to figure out so more work, it's called doing your job.  I thought the backlash would be the reality check they needed and they would become a more humble and open group (as they are supposed to be anyway).  They're not. 

As for the WWCA don't back down to those narcissists.  If you don't believe in the JHI opportunities, so be it, continue to slow down progress and don't bring it up since it's "not worth it".  If you do believe, be vocal and present the case.

[Ghetto]

What would happen to overall wrestling numbers if you reduce weight classes? Anyone disagree the participation numbers would go down?

THERE'S NO WAY OF KNOWING UNTIL WE TRY. THERE WERE 12 WEIGHTS IN 1988 AND THERE WERE MORE PARTICIPANTS THEN.

The generational differences between our youth in 1988 and today has a lot more to do with this then the # of weight classes. Wasn't the lowest class then 98#?


AGREED. MAYBE WE SHOULD STOP BLAMING COACHES FOR WHAT THEY AREN'T DOING. MAYBE THEY ARE. MAYBE THE SYSTEM IS FLAWED?
I hope my comments were not viewed as blaming coaches! Quite frankly we as parents and supporters of the sport need to be much more part of the solution then coaches. Yes we need to make changes to the system - I just can't think how less weight classes improves the sport.

Also - if WI has different weight classes then the rest of the country - how does a tournament like the Cheesehead work? Seems like it would create a lot of complexity. I think that tournament by itself has been one of the best things to happen to WI wrestling over the past 10+ years.

Agreed that there is a generational difference. There are tons more opportunities now than there were in 1988, yet we added more weights to fill.

I was not referring to you when I mentioned that there should be less blame, and more information.

I believe that more exciting duals, and allowing kids to wrestle JV when that is where they belong, will help retain and build numbers. Dropping weight classes does that IMO.

[Handles II]

I don't have any doubts that if WI would drop weights and adjust them to best fit the student population that we are working with, that other states would follow suit, or at least pressure the NFHS to do the same. The numbers have been posted to show that we aren't the only state struggling to fill weights. AZ certainly is struggling more than WI for numbers of participants and programs so while those individuals might not think WI is a top state, A. maybe we never really were B. Maybe their perception is flawed. Many of our D3 college wrestlers could perform at the D2 and even lower caliber D1 programs.

But facts do remain that we have a huge problem with K-8 kids dropping this sport like a bad transmission.

[littleguy301]

While many are for dropping weights and some are not for dropping weights. Quite a range, but I would like to give those that are not for dropping weights a little inside on what some coaches and such are dealing with from the schools.

1. When an AD that is not a wrestling person goes to a wrestling dual and sees their school team forfeiting 4-5 weights that is not a good sign. Money to that sport starts to dwindle and not good either. Most AD goes under that field a team aspect like baseball and football. If you cannt put out 5 kids in basketball or 11 kids in football then there is a serious problem.

2. look at football now, is it going to be next year that the WIAA offically has 9 man as part of the 2 day state championships. If not next year it will be the year after. In order to continue football at certain school they lessen the number that play so that the majority can continue to play.

3. Numbers are declining in ALL sports. Well the sports that have become part of the WIAA over the past couple of years like bowling and such are seeing some good numbers but they are new also. There is a culture change going on in youth sports and high school sports that kids are not going out for these sports like they did in the past.

4. I dont think any one that is looking for less weight classes wants to cut out chances for for ANYONE to be able to do that sport. I think it is a direct counter to the AD are seeing a team not filling out the classes and they only way to defend to a school AD that doesnt understand what is going on.

5. Also many do believe that cutting a couple of chances is way better than cutting everyones chances.

I am one that would love to see wrestling grow like mad but in certain areas it is not and this day and age of watching budgets and how school need every last penny, it have become difficult to sell a sport that doesnt field a full lineup to the administration and school board.

Any ideas as to make wrestling grow would be appriecated because I believe that some coaches and schools have exshauted most ideas.

[Handles II]

Parkside is pretty much WI kids correct? So therefore Wi kids can compete at the D2 level. Some of the Parkside kids could compete at a D1 level depending on the program and conference. Just as some of our D3 kids could also compete at a D2 or D1 level. That's the point I was making. But if your (pointless) argument is if a D3 team could beat Parkside, well,UWW did in '14 and '15.  

[Handles II]

Points,

If I'm not mistaken, you have taken your kids out of certain clubs and put them in others right? Privit clubs as you often endorse You think this is the best thing for them though you can't be 100% sure if this is true, since we can't live in two parallel universes at the same time and we can't predict the future.

According to the survey, it sounds like the majority of  head coaches have looked at the information that they have access to and believe that reducing the number of weights will in theory be better for their wrestlers and wrestling in general in this state. So are you going to tell those coaches that they can't have that opinion? That they shouldn't do what they believe would be best for their teams and the sport that they love and want to help succeed? I don't believe WI head coaches had a say in going to 14 weights. I believe that was a change done by the NFHS and the WIAA adopted it without any real input. So now, after 15 years of having 14 weights, perhaps these coaches should have a say and be listened to. They are the ones in the trenches, recruiting, etc. Right?