Foxcatcher

[whatever]

While Steve Carrell does a great job playing John du Pont as a deranged man and Channing Tatum does a good job portraying a wrestler, the story is not a good story...at least for a movie.

If you are a wrestling fan, wrestling isn't protrayed very favorably in the movie.  The only conclusion one can draw is that Du Pont was molesting/asaulting Schultz and being that Schultz was physically superior, it leaves that question of "why?" unanswered.

There were numerous points during the movie when Dave Schultz asks Mark what is going on between him and Du Pont....but Mark never answers.

Knowing that Dave Schultz gets murdered, you end up waiting for some dramatic build-up to that final confrontation but it more less just happens towards the end.....and then it shows Mark Schultz entering a MMA fight and then the movie just stops.

I'm probably not doing a good job of articulating my disappointment with the movie but while the movie was probably very accurate as to the specific events that happened, it was not a good movie to watch.

[imnofish]

Ok, whatever, thanks for elaborating.  I still intend to see it, in some fashion, but it's good to have more info. going into the experience. 

[bigG]

Interesting review....and noteworthy that the person said it could be a better wrestling movie than "VisionQuest" or "Reversal"....

I guess I'll be willing to debate that after I see it.

I thought Reversal was disturbing and sickening.

[whatever]

While I'm sure Mark Schultz could explain the rationale in a book, it's glossed over in the movie AND there is a pretty disturbing scene which implies there was something perverted going on....

Again, it's pretty obvious that Du Pont is mentally unstable but the movie also shows Mark Schultz as being depressed/frustrated but the movie never really explains why....so you're left to conjecture that he's messed up because of what is going on with him and Du Pont.

While Tom may not have a high opinion of "VisionQuest", I don't think "Foxcatcher" is anywhere close to being as good of a movie as VQ.....sorry, Tom

[bigG]

I think you were just enamored with the wardrobe selection for the head coach in VQ, which earns it a few more stars on the Whatever ratings index.

My parents decided to see Foxcatcher. Said I shouldn't take my 14 year old to see it. I'll take their advice.

I just thought Reversal was stinkin' weird.

That leaves me with VisionQuest. Lauden Swain finds his lady...and his destiny!

[neutral]

I saw the movie last Friday night at the Oriental 3 in Milwaukee - and agree that it's not a great movie ... but worth seeing.

I have not read the book - but from what I remember about the details at the time ... it seems reputable.

Spoiler Alert!

While it doesn't go into great detail about Mark's emotional history ... he is (obviously) not terribly stable before even being introduced to DuPont - likely the by-product of a very unstable chidhood ... and reliance on older brother Dave (happily mariied with kids by the time the movie picks up their story).  As we see time-and-time again with sexual abuse - lack of self-confidence/self-esteem is what allows those situations to develop ... not physical dominance - (and Mark was, obviosly, very insecure without Dave).  DuPont initially gave Mark a feeling oif his own self-worth ... built on rewards DuPont could control (money & praise, initially).

What I have more difficulty understanding than Mark falling under the influence of DuPont - is Dave & the U.S. Wrestling committee falling into his trap ... Dave especially.  I think that speaks volumes to the degree that wrestling was desperate for support - since DuPont's quirkiness was certainly on display for them.  I am truly surprised that Dave stayed after realizing (at least) the drug aspect of what DuPont had done to Mark.  He (at least) had a respectable job, a seemingly great family, & friends.  The DuPont offer was definitely utopia - but at what price.  It seems that would have been obvious to him.  

I agree that it portrays wrestling in anything but a good light ... and shows nothing of the true training & dedication required to be a world class wrestler (or any wrestler ... for that matter).  It is not really a wrestling movie.  It is a true story of a sick man, an emotionally weak person (who happens to be a wrestler), and the circumstances that allowed a desperate situation (US wrestling at that time) to be preyed upon.

The one redeeming thing is that Mark is eventually able to recognize that he needs to leave the complex (& Dave) - although, it would seem, not to as successful a life as you would hope for him.  Does the book go into more detail about his life after the point at which the movie ends?

[roughandtough]

Lauden also writes a great article about a female body part that one of classmates showed to her mother!

[TomM]

While I'm sure Mark Schultz could explain the rationale in a book, it's glossed over in the movie AND there is a pretty disturbing scene which implies there was something perverted going on....

Again, it's pretty obvious that Du Pont is mentally unstable but the movie also shows Mark Schultz as being depressed/frustrated but the movie never really explains why....so you're left to conjecture that he's messed up because of what is going on with him and Du Pont.

While Tom may not have a high opinion of "VisionQuest", I don't think "Foxcatcher" is anywhere close to being as good of a movie as VQ.....sorry, Tom

Hey, 'Mr. Spoiler'  ... how about a SPOILER alert for those who haven't seen it?   
Now, why do you think I don't care for Visionquest?  I liked it a lot.  I do remember making some comment about it a while back (did I?)... that was tongue in cheek.
I am always concerned when movies come out somehow depicting wrestling.  Has there been or can there ever be a wrestling movie that will actually be a wrestling movie...?
Perhaps not.  I think if I was a basketball person I would think no movie really does basketball any justice either.  Maybe we are just all too close to the sport to like any movie about it very much.

[woody53]

Deep Breath Tom, Deep Breath!

[Hungus]

I enjoyed the movie, but it went in with the mind set that this was not a "wrestling" movie. If that is what you are expecting, don't go.
This is a movie about a sick and twisted man, and wrestling happens to be apart of it.
Vision a Quest is a wrestling movie, this is not.

But see for yourself, my brother loves The Godfather, I personally hate it, to each their own.

[littleguy301]

VisionQuest just simply rocks!!!!!

I thought Win/Win was just an awful story line with some good actors in it but I liked the wrestling in Win/Win.

[Ghetto]

VisionQuest just simply rocks!!!!!

I thought Win/Win was just an awful story line with some good actors in it but I liked the wrestling in Win/Win.

I actually thought it was a good movie. I like Paul Giamatti though. The kid was a former wrestler who had a serious injury and couldnt keep wrestling.

[npope]

A few years back, e.g. maybe three or four, Mark Schultz was a regular on The Mat.Com forum. His commentary and interaction with the posters was pretty open and transparent (although nobody was asking about his experience at Foxcatcher). He actually was openly looking for employment - in whatever capacity he might find. Things looked pretty rough for him. A couple of other posters went after him personally (evidently they had issues with him or possibly were just trolls) and drove him off that forum.

One can only imagine the psychological damage that resulted from his experiences at Foxcatcher. Harsh stuff.

[littleguy301]

VisionQuest just simply rocks!!!!!

I thought Win/Win was just an awful story line with some good actors in it but I liked the wrestling in Win/Win.

I actually thought it was a good movie. I like Paul Giamatti though. The kid was a former wrestler who had a serious injury and couldnt keep wrestling.

I liked the wrestling, liked the actors but the idea of putting a guy in a nursing home to cash a check and the mom and such. Sure life aint fair but didnt like the story line. With that said I did like the movie because the actors were pretty good at their roles.

Alex Shafer was the kid. State champ in New Jersey and he had only one request that the movie would not interfer with his wrestling. They shot the movie during the spring and fall of his sophmore and Jr years of high school. He then had to do some reshoots at the start of his jr year of wrestling and that is when he broke some bones and ended his wrestling career at that point. He did wrestle at beat the streets in 2012? I believe for his youth wrestling club. Has had a minor role in a movie since, maybe more.

[whatever]

While I'm sure Mark Schultz could explain the rationale in a book, it's glossed over in the movie AND there is a pretty disturbing scene which implies there was something perverted going on....

Again, it's pretty obvious that Du Pont is mentally unstable but the movie also shows Mark Schultz as being depressed/frustrated but the movie never really explains why....so you're left to conjecture that he's messed up because of what is going on with him and Du Pont.

While Tom may not have a high opinion of "VisionQuest", I don't think "Foxcatcher" is anywhere close to being as good of a movie as VQ.....sorry, Tom

Hey, 'Mr. Spoiler'  ... how about a SPOILER alert for those who haven't seen it?   
Now, why do you think I don't care for Visionquest?  I liked it a lot.  I do remember making some comment about it a while back (did I?)... that was tongue in cheek.
I am always concerned when movies come out somehow depicting wrestling.  Has there been or can there ever be a wrestling movie that will actually be a wrestling movie...?
Perhaps not.  I think if I was a basketball person I would think no movie really does basketball any justice either.  Maybe we are just all too close to the sport to like any movie about it very much.

Sorry Tom!

I think you hit it right on the head with being close to the sport to like any movie about it very much.

...But I am partial to VQ as it came out in 1985.....and my older brothers took me to see it the week before the State tourney that year so....