Badgers at NCAAs

[The Legend]

Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history

Yeah and that "bag of milk" will do anything to make sure that none of them will attend UW. If he held the program in contempt before when Davis was there, he absolutely hates it now after his RTC falling out with Bono. Do not wonder why the coaching staff may well look further than the state's border for recruits as much as we want the state's top wrestlers in Madison because there's a powerful counterforce against it.

Maybe if you knew why they had a falling out your love affair with Bono would be over. 

[jdwrestle]

love to hear why....please share.

[wrestlemania]

"Maybe if you knew why they had a falling out your love affair with Bono would be over. "

My love affair? Geez, I hope my wife doesn't find out.  ,

If this is about McDonough, while I don't like how it went down the bottom line is Bono as head coach is entitled to having the people he wants on HIS coaching staff like it or not because he is in charge. If it reflects poorly on him, well then he has to live with the consequences, which in this case involves a grudge from a "legendary" vendetta holder.

If its something else, well indeed do tell.

[MNbadger]

Time to stop this one, far afield even for me.

[whatever]

.....I was just getting ready to make some popcorn and sit back and watch.

[Gutwrench]

I too would like to hear "the scoop" of Bono v. Askren.

With that said, there are many different factors that go into a kid's decision for what school they want to attend.  The fact is that you can't sign all the Wisconsin kids.  As someone else mentioned Pennsylvania native Spencer Lee chose Iowa over Penn St.  What the heck Cael?  Additionally did anybody predict the level of success from Buchanan, Keckeisen, and Mocco?  Not all the "studs" coming out of high school pan out.  In fact very few do, and that goes for every state and every program.

I want Wisconsin to be where Penn State is just as much as the next guy, but I also want to recognize and appreciate the kids do we have in the program. I have enjoyed watching them compete this season, and look forward to next season.

[Vir Fortis]

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.

For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.

Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.

There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.

What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?

Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.

There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this POST.

Who has said they would rather have had Buchanan over Amos? I don't believe anyone said that.

2-Sure. Keegan could have gone anywhere and is an incredible talent. And? How does that mean you shouldn't make getting in-state talent a priority? What's the "revisionism" going on there? Did anyone say he wasn't a top recruit and a generational talent? His College success thus far is...pretty similar to that of Parker's but Parker was in a tougher weight this year. But fine, Hopke and Milard and Sinclair are 3 guys who ABSOLUTELY have enormous Collegiate Potential. Hopke's coming off a triple crown and the other two are at LEAST on that same level.

3-Yeah...lots goes into a decision about where to go to College. That's not new information.

4-I don't think anyone said we need to keep every single Wisconsin kid who looks like he could be a good College Wrestler...but outside of the absolute top recruits, very few Wrestlers are getting a full scholarship. But if you're asking if we should give the top kids in the state full scholarships? Sure...

5-Lastly...please look at what the kids who are coming up through Wisconsin are doing Nationally right now?
Rivera dominated the #1 ranked recruit at the Cheesehead...on his way to winning one of those tournaments. And...the Badgers got him!


I'm genuinely confused why it's such a controversial take to say that...in order for the Badgers to take that next step, they need to keep the BEST Wrestlers from Wisconsin IN WISCONSIN. Especially as we're in the midst of some of the best in-state Wrestling talent we've ever seen(For what it's worth, Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history...so with respect, I don't care if Koy Hopke Wrestles at the Ironman, we've seen him wrestle the best in the Country.                                                                           

How do you go about keeping them in state if they don't want to wrestle for Madison? How do you keep them out of the Miss. pipeline or UNI, or Wyoming or Iowa?

People get what recruitment is, right? Getting in on these kids early is a good start. From the sound of it, UNI was in on Keckisen before the Badgers.

You sell the school. How does ANY school get ANY recruits? How did they get Rivera? Grayson Clark? Barnett?

This started off with someone saying for the Badgers to get to the next level, they need to keep the top kids in state. Now I assume that was statement was made because we're seeing Wisconsin kids thrive...and we know we've got a ton of talent coming up the pipeline.

You aggressively recruit them, you make them a priority, you offer them early...do the things that are pretty common knowledge when it comes to recruiting. I'm not sure how else to answer this.

[Vir Fortis]

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.

For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.

Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.

There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.

What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?

Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.

There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this POST.

Who has said they would rather have had Buchanan over Amos? I don't believe anyone said that.

2-Sure. Keegan could have gone anywhere and is an incredible talent. And? How does that mean you shouldn't make getting in-state talent a priority? What's the "revisionism" going on there? Did anyone say he wasn't a top recruit and a generational talent? His College success thus far is...pretty similar to that of Parker's but Parker was in a tougher weight this year. But fine, Hopke and Milard and Sinclair are 3 guys who ABSOLUTELY have enormous Collegiate Potential. Hopke's coming off a triple crown and the other two are at LEAST on that same level.

3-Yeah...lots goes into a decision about where to go to College. That's not new information.

4-I don't think anyone said we need to keep every single Wisconsin kid who looks like he could be a good College Wrestler...but outside of the absolute top recruits, very few Wrestlers are getting a full scholarship. But if you're asking if we should give the top kids in the state full scholarships? Sure...

5-Lastly...please look at what the kids who are coming up through Wisconsin are doing Nationally right now?
Rivera dominated the #1 ranked recruit at the Cheesehead...on his way to winning one of those tournaments. And...the Badgers got him!


I'm genuinely confused why it's such a controversial take to say that...in order for the Badgers to take that next step, they need to keep the BEST Wrestlers from Wisconsin IN WISCONSIN. Especially as we're in the midst of some of the best in-state Wrestling talent we've ever seen(For what it's worth, Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history...so with respect, I don't care if Koy Hopke Wrestles at the Ironman, we've seen him wrestle the best in the Country.                                                                           

How do you go about keeping them in state if they don't want to wrestle for Madison? How do you keep them out of the Miss. pipeline or UNI, or Wyoming or Iowa?

People get what recruitment is, right? Getting in on these kids early is a good start. From the sound of it, UNI was in on Keckisen before the Badgers.

You sell the school. How does ANY school get ANY recruits? How did they get Rivera? Grayson Clark? Barnett?

This started off with someone saying for the Badgers to get to the next level, they need to keep the top kids in state. Now I assume that was statement was made because we're seeing Wisconsin kids thrive...and we know we've got a ton of talent coming up the pipeline.

You aggressively recruit them, you make them a priority, you offer them early...do the things that are pretty common knowledge when it comes to recruiting. I'm not sure how else to answer this.

Trust me I know we'll about the recruitment process. Been there done that with 2 of my children. My point is everyone saying you have to keep top Wisconsin talent at UW. AGAIN the UW is not for everyone. The top clubs are not pushing the Badgers, you don't find that concerning. My point is you can do all the stuff you listed but UW is not for everyone. But thanks for the recruitment lesson. By the way the recruiting part for these young athletes isn't always as glamorous as some think. Pretty stressful stuff!!

You ask a stupid question and then you get annoyed when you get a stupid answer?

Now, let me try and take notes because this type of insight is INCREDIBLE. Madison not for everyone. Wow...got it! That's only been uttered about 19 times in this thread that started with really just about the most simplistic and benign observation you could come up with. It seems like it's overwhelmingly "for" the best Football prospects from the state, but got it. Not-For-Everyone. Next you'll try and tell me something crazy like you don't always know how a kid will develop at the next level. Something that EVERYONE'S totally not agreed with already in this thread, right?

Welp...I guess you DON'T recruit the top kids in the state then? Don't try. Hey, Bono should just be a extra nice guy and help these kids move to Columbia or Cedar Falls...because Wisconsin's not for everyone, but Northern Iowa is

Also never said recruiting was glamorous, I said it required the Badgers making an effort and prioritizing them...though it IS pretty fun when a school asks you to come for a visit and you get to hang out with the team, etc...and you don't need to be Cary Kolat to understand or have experienced that.



Ok though...this Horse seems to be rotting and the bone is turning to dust we've kicked it so much. In the future, I will DEFINITELY not agree with someone who says we should try and recruit the top Wisconsin kids when they're the best in the Country because that is just...WAAAY too controversial!

[bigoil]

University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.


Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32

NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.

[CLC FAN]

Just trying to pre-process my emotions lol... I feel like

5 AAs or up likely means 50 points or up means I'm feeling fantastic about the Badgers.

4 AAs could mean anything from mid 30s to mid 40s for points means I'm more happy with the direction of the program than with the outcome of this year's NCAAs and I'm still hungry to see us take a big step forward.

3 AAs.... if they are really high AAs this could have quite a sheen to it and get a lot of people excited... but I still think I'll be somewhere between meh and grrr about the program.  To get to the level of that annual Top 10 status (gotta be Missouri before you can dream about being Iowa/Penn St) we need those blood round wins and multiple semifinalists/finalsits...

Anything under 3 AAs has me wishing for a baseball season to focus on.

Definitely more meh than grrr for me.  Our 3 AAs all had bloodround matches that felt like toss-ups and the kids went 3-0!  This definitely could have been a catastrophic NCAAs but instead it was just a tail of what might have been. 
I'm still hungry to see us take that next big step forward.  I think it's coming.

[MNbadger]

What I found (from 2020)
Acceptance rate/Average ACT
UW Madison: 57.2/27-32
UNI: 78.9/20-26
U of MN: 69.6/25-31
U of MI.  : 26.1/31-35
Northwestern: 9.3/33-35
Stanford: 5.2/31-35
U of Iowa: 84.3/22-29
I think big oil, you pointed out in a thread many years ago that some schools make exceptions for athletes that others do not.  We know it happens in football nationwide. It gives schools a way to pretend they are valuing academics while making bucks with FB and BB.  I know the Gophers have lost recruits due to academics like many others.
I think that alll three DI institutions in Iowa decided to stop using the ACT for admissions(actually this year I think).  This is a national trend as well.

University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.


Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32

NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.

[littleguy301]

What I found (from 2020)
Acceptance rate/Average ACT
UW Madison: 57.2/27-32
UNI: 78.9/20-26
U of MN: 69.6/25-31
U of MI.  : 26.1/31-35
Northwestern: 9.3/33-35
Stanford: 5.2/31-35
U of Iowa: 84.3/22-29
I think big oil, you pointed out in a thread many years ago that some schools make exceptions for athletes that others do not.  We know it happens in football nationwide. It gives schools a way to pretend they are valuing academics while making bucks with FB and BB.  I know the Gophers have lost recruits due to academics like many others.
I think that alll three DI institutions in Iowa decided to stop using the ACT for admissions(actually this year I think).  This is a national trend as well.

University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.


Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32

NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.

ACT have become kind of a back burner test at this point though it will come back I believe. Covid situation there.

[vsmf2010]

As far as the "athlete exception" I had that discussion a while back with a Badger wrestling assistant coach at that time and he explained that to me in this way.

He said the admission standard was the same for all students regardless if they were athletes or not and at the time it was a 3.8 GPA and a 28 ACT (I think that is right). If you had really high ACT they gave you some room on the GPA but if you were under 28 it was going to be a long shot.

He said they were able to appeal to get athletes in who were below this and you could get some of them in. If the "athlete exceptions" graduated your future requests were generally looked on favorably but if they did not it became harder and harder to get the wrestlers who were below the line excepted. He said at that present time (this was a few years back) they had had some exceptions drop out and/or not graduate and that they were not able to get anyone in who fell below the standard admission standards.

I have no idea if the same rules apply for all sports, if anything has changed or what they do at the other schools but this is first hand knowledge from a Badger assistant back when Barry was the head coach.

[Handles II]

As far as the "athlete exception" I had that discussion a while back with a Badger wrestling assistant coach at that time and he explained that to me in this way.

He said the admission standard was the same for all students regardless if they were athletes or not and at the time it was a 3.8 GPA and a 28 ACT (I think that is right). If you had really high ACT they gave you some room on the GPA but if you were under 28 it was going to be a long shot.

He said they were able to appeal to get athletes in who were below this and you could get some of them in. If the "athlete exceptions" graduated your future requests were generally looked on favorably but if they did not it became harder and harder to get the wrestlers who were below the line excepted. He said at that present time (this was a few years back) they had had some exceptions drop out and/or not graduate and that they were not able to get anyone in who fell below the standard admission standards.

I have no idea if the same rules apply for all sports, if anything has changed or what they do at the other schools but this is first hand knowledge from a Badger assistant back when Barry was the head coach.

That sounds about right from things directly from Bono. He has repeatedly said at some meet/greet events that there are some athletes he wants to recruit, but the UW simply will not let him and that's almost 100% related to grades/testing. I'm not saying some of of our in-state talent weren't making the grades, maybe/maybe not. But it's a factor that is in place and will remain in place. The UW is about student retention and graduation. This is why our basketball team isn't Kentucky, where attending for one year to be NBA eligible, then dropping out is an acceptable part of their student admission.

[npope]

I know my experience at the UW as a wrestler comes from a long-time back, and things have almost certainly changed since then, but I can say with absolute confidence that there was a time when grades did NOT matter if the person was an athlete and the coach wanted him in school. The freshman wrestlers roomed together at the time and my roommate was functionally illiterate. He was on a full ride and he even lasted two years before he quit/forced out. Case in point, one night the head coach came knocking on our apartment door, all lathered-up and mad at my roomie. My roomie was a student in the PE course the coach was teaching and my roomie had failed an exam. While chewing on my roomie, the coach said (and I saw/heard this with my own eyes/ears), "How could you possibly fail that test?! I gave you the exam to study a day in advance!!" My roommate's embarrassed response, I kid you not, was, "Sorry coach, but I couldn't read it."  My roomie lasted a whole 'nother year till he finally quit (or the school finally booted him out).

Maybe that's just the "good old days," though. I have no idea how that world operates these days.