Poll
Question:
Where do you think the Badgers land at the end NCAAs?
Option 1: 5 or more AAs and a Top 10 Finish
votes: 4
Option 2: 4 AAs and a Top 15 Finish
votes: 25
Option 3: 3 or fewer AAs and a Top 20 Finish
votes: 44
Just trying to pre-process my emotions lol... I feel like
5 AAs or up likely means 50 points or up means I'm feeling fantastic about the Badgers.
4 AAs could mean anything from mid 30s to mid 40s for points means I'm more happy with the direction of the program than with the outcome of this year's NCAAs and I'm still hungry to see us take a big step forward.
3 AAs.... if they are really high AAs this could have quite a sheen to it and get a lot of people excited... but I still think I'll be somewhere between meh and grrr about the program. To get to the level of that annual Top 10 status (gotta be Missouri before you can dream about being Iowa/Penn St) we need those blood round wins and multiple semifinalists/finalsits...
Anything under 3 AAs has me wishing for a baseball season to focus on.
Based purely on seeds the Badgers are projected to finish in 8th place with 36 points.
The results are below.
PLACE SCHOOL POINTS
1 Penn State 113
2 Michigan 96.5
3 Iowa 81.5
4 Arizona State 67.5
5 North Carolina State 60.5
6 Cornell 42
7 Ohio State 36.5
8 Wisconsin 36
9 Oklahoma State 35.5
10 Virginia Tech 34.5
11 Cal Poly 33
12 Iowa State 31
13 Missouri 29
14 Minnesota 28.5
15 Princeton 24.5
16 Nebraska 24
17 Pittsburgh 23.5
18 Stanford 23
18 Northwestern 23
20 Oregon State 21
21 Wyoming 19
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 10, 2022, 11:42:50 AM
Based purely on seeds the Badgers are projected to finish in 8th place with 36 points.
The results are below.
PLACE SCHOOL POINTS
1 Penn State 113
2 Michigan 96.5
3 Iowa 81.5
4 Arizona State 67.5
5 North Carolina State 60.5
6 Cornell 42
7 Ohio State 36.5
8 Wisconsin 36
9 Oklahoma State 35.5
10 Virginia Tech 34.5
11 Cal Poly 33
12 Iowa State 31
13 Missouri 29
14 Minnesota 28.5
15 Princeton 24.5
16 Nebraska 24
17 Pittsburgh 23.5
18 Stanford 23
18 Northwestern 23
20 Oregon State 21
21 Wyoming 19
Thanks for posting this! I'm going to be confident and say we are battle tested and will finish better than 8th.
I would guess 7th to 10th. My random guess is 9th.
Nice to be thinking top 10!
Seems like Barnett, Hamiti, and Gomez are in good places. Can't say the same for Hilger or the others
Anyone need tickets to NCAAs? The downside is that you'll have to sit near me. The positive is that you'll be able to see your Badgers wrestle at NCAAs.
Email me.
wfbwrestling@mac.com
Quote from: Scramble_king on March 11, 2022, 10:02:29 AM
Seems like Barnett, Hamiti, and Gomez are in good places. Can't say the same for Hilger or the others
Hillgers path is manageable. He has beaten Elam in the past. He would then have Lewis Fernandes or a guy Fernandes lost to. He handled Fernandes earlier this season. 4th match would be against the loser of Davison or Stencel. Hillger beat Stencil at NCAAs last season and lost to Davison 4-3 this season. If he wins that match he would be in the blood round against most likely Jordan Wood or Gary Traub. I believe Hillger is 2-0 vs Traub in his career and Wood didn't AA last season.
Lots of competitive matches to make it to AA, but against guys he is either lost to by 1 or beaten. Davison is the only guy in the group who he has lost to.
I voted 3 AA's (Barnett, Gomez, Hamiti), but I'm hoping for top 15 or even top 10 for points. We should get some points from several others even if they don't AA right?
FWIW....WIN magazine predicts Wisconsin to finish with 3 AA's and in 18th place. Booooooooooo
Quote from: Gutwrench on March 11, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
I voted 3 AA's (Barnett, Gomez, Hamiti), but I'm hoping for top 15 or even top 10 for points. We should get some points from several others even if they don't AA right?
FWIW....WIN magazine predicts Wisconsin to finish with 3 AA's and in 18th place. Booooooooooo
I would not put too much stock in the Win magazines predictions. They are predicting Gomez (3 seed) to finish 7th and Sasso (4 seed) to finish 2nd. They are also predicting Seabass to win and Eierman to finish 4th which is interesting considering they are both hurt.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 11, 2022, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: Gutwrench on March 11, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
I voted 3 AA's (Barnett, Gomez, Hamiti), but I'm hoping for top 15 or even top 10 for points. We should get some points from several others even if they don't AA right?
FWIW....WIN magazine predicts Wisconsin to finish with 3 AA's and in 18th place. Booooooooooo
I would not put too much stock in the Win magazines predictions. They are predicting Gomez (3 seed) to finish 7th and Sasso (4 seed) to finish 2nd. They are also predicting Seabass to win and Eierman to finish 4th which is interesting considering they are both hurt.
Are they both hurt...or did they both protect their seeds? Eierman seemed to legitimately have a bad knee, but his MDF didn't hurt him, nor did Rivera's hurt him. Hard to tell how bad either are hurt. The one guy from that Tournament who looked like they were really battling through a serious injury were Kemerer with that shoulder.
That would be one incredible upset if Sasso makes it to the finals as the 4 seed on the same side as Yianni however...that's my biggest issue with those picks. Outside of Stevenson, I don't think anyone's odds are higher than Yianni's.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 13, 2022, 03:47:11 AM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 11, 2022, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: Gutwrench on March 11, 2022, 01:33:35 PM
I voted 3 AA's (Barnett, Gomez, Hamiti), but I'm hoping for top 15 or even top 10 for points. We should get some points from several others even if they don't AA right?
FWIW....WIN magazine predicts Wisconsin to finish with 3 AA's and in 18th place. Booooooooooo
I would not put too much stock in the Win magazines predictions. They are predicting Gomez (3 seed) to finish 7th and Sasso (4 seed) to finish 2nd. They are also predicting Seabass to win and Eierman to finish 4th which is interesting considering they are both hurt.
Are they both hurt...or did they both protect their seeds? Eierman seemed to legitimately have a bad knee, but his MDF didn't hurt him, nor did Rivera's hurt him. Hard to tell how bad either are hurt. The one guy from that Tournament who looked like they were really battling through a serious injury were Kemerer with that shoulder.
That would be one incredible upset if Sasso makes it to the finals as the 4 seed on the same side as Yianni however...that's my biggest issue with those picks. Outside of Stevenson, I don't think anyone's odds are higher than Yianni's.
I think Eiermans injury is pretty significant. He had the massive brace on and was in quite a bit of pain in his win in the quarters. Rumor is torn ACL. A little harder to tell with Seabass. He does not look the same but it could be less significant than a torn ACL.
[/quote]
I think Eiermans injury is pretty significant. He had the massive brace on and was in quite a bit of pain in his win in the quarters. Rumor is torn ACL. A little harder to tell with Seabass. He does not look the same but it could be less significant than a torn ACL.
[/quote]
I read that Eireman did tear his ACL and Seabass had a knee surgery a week before Big 10's
Quote from: wrestlingfan32 on March 15, 2022, 11:35:06 PM
I think Eiermans injury is pretty significant. He had the massive brace on and was in quite a bit of pain in his win in the quarters. Rumor is torn ACL. A little harder to tell with Seabass. He does not look the same but it could be less significant than a torn ACL.
[/quote]
I read that Eireman did tear his ACL and Seabass had a knee surgery a week before Big 10's
[/quote]
Riveras was allegedly just a scope so much less serious.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 16, 2022, 06:12:42 AM
Quote from: wrestlingfan32 on March 15, 2022, 11:35:06 PM
I think Eiermans injury is pretty significant. He had the massive brace on and was in quite a bit of pain in his win in the quarters. Rumor is torn ACL. A little harder to tell with Seabass. He does not look the same but it could be less significant than a torn ACL.
I read that Eireman did tear his ACL and Seabass had a knee surgery a week before Big 10's
[/quote]
Riveras was allegedly just a scope so much less serious.
[/quote]
100%! If it was a torn meniscus and he had a scope. He will feel great walking right out of the hospital. Could literally practice that same day.
A few upsets already at 125.
Good that EB scores first!
Crazy how you get nervous just watching.
Good start EB. Very solid.
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 17, 2022, 11:42:37 AM
Crazy how you get nervous just watching.
That is so funny. I was just thinking of that during the Big Tens. Completely illogical but definitely true. The less control and impact the more nervous. As a wrestler not so much, as a coach definitely have the pit in your stomach but not as nervous as just lot going on to focus on. As a fan, parent, relative, friend etc... crazy nervous.
Many Big Ten top seeds losing in lightweights already
125
#9 Purdue Schroder lost to #24
#8 Minnesota McKee lost to #25
#12 Ohio St lost to #21
#13 Iowa Ayala Lost to #20
#16 Penn St lost to #17
133
#8 Michigan St lost to #25
#7 Illinois lost to #26 Purdue
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 17, 2022, 11:32:38 AM
A few upsets already at 125.
I only see one upset (#6 Schroder losing).
Barnett has started well.
Ouch! That one stings. He had him.
the path to fourth in 2010 was like this:
Tyler Graff 133 Fifth Place
#8 Graff maj dec. Bryan Ortenzio (Penn), 16-6
#8 Graff maj dec. #9 Steve Bell (Maryland), 13-5
#1 Jayson Ness (Minnesota) dec. #8 Graff, 4-0
#8 Graff maj. dec. #7 Mike Grey (Cornell), 13-5
#8 Graff dec. #5 Borislav Novachkov (Cal Poly), 2-1; TB1
#3 Franklin Gomez (Michigan State) pin #8 Graff, 3:56
#8 Graff dec. #6 Dan Mitcheff (Kent State), 5-3
Cole Schmitt 141 DNP
#10 Tyler Nauman (Pittsburgh) dec. Schmitt, 6-2
Schmitt maj. dec. Ryan Adams (North Dakota St.),
10-2 Michael Mangrum (Oregon State) pin Schmitt, 3:50
Kyle Ruschell 149 Fourth Place
#4 Ruschell dec. Glenn Shober (Navy), 4-0
Torsten Gillespie (Edinboro) dec. #4 Ruschell, 6-4
#4 Ruschell pin David Cheza (Michigan State), 1:46
#4 Ruschell dec. Eric Albright (Pittsburgh), 6-1
#4 Ruschell dec. #6 Matthew Kyler (Army), 4-3, TB2
#4 Ruschell dec. #9 Kevin LeValley (Bucknell), 3-1, SV1
#4 Ruschell dec. #5 Frank Molinaro (Penn State), 7-1
#3 Kyle Terry (Oklahoma) dec. #4 Ruschell, 5-4
Andrew Howe 165 First Place
#1 Howe pin Chad Porter (Liberty), 2:03
#1 Howe maj. dec. Justin Kerber (Cornell), 15-3
#1 Howe dec. #9 Andrew Rendos (Bucknell), 7-2
#1 Howe dec. Tyler Caldwell (Oklahoma), 4-1
#1 Howe dec. #6 Dan Vallimont (Penn State), 9-3
Travis Rutt 184 DNP
Rutt dec. Nathan Schiedel (Binghamton), 7-3
#1 Kirk Smith (Boise State) dec. Rutt, 6-2
Zack Giesen (Stanford) dec. Rutt, 10-4
Trevor Brandvold 197 Sixth Place
#5 Brandvold pin Brent Jones (Virginia), 3:19
#5 Brandvold dec. #12 Brent Haynes (Missouri), 5-2
#4 Cam Simaz (Cornell) dec. #5 Brandvold, 8-5
#5 Brandvold dec. #9 Chad Beatty (Iowa), 7-4
#5 Brandvold dec. #8 Sonny Yohn (Minnesota), 13-7
#3 Hudson Taylor (Maryland) maj. dec. #5 Brandvold, 10-0
#6 Eric Lapotsky (Oklahoma) dec. #5 Brandvold, 7-0
Eric Bugenhagen Hwt DNP
#1 David Zabriskie (Iowa State) dec. Bugenhagen, 6-2
Bugenhagen, dec. Eddie Bordas (Rider), 5-1
#6 Nathan Everhart (Indiana) dec. Bugenhagen, 6-2
thought Zargo had that one, hopefully he can make some noise on the back side
I thought so too. He lost his energy when he was choked. You could even see him try to tell the ref "I can't breath". That was a tough break.
They need to do something about that in college wrestling. It is not MMA. I have seen it a couple times this year.
Nice win for Austin!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 17, 2022, 12:15:27 PM
the path to fourth in 2010 was like this:
Kyle Ruschell 149 Fourth Place
#4 Ruschell dec. Glenn Shober (Navy), 4-0
Torsten Gillespie (Edinboro) dec. #4 Ruschell, 6-4
#4 Ruschell pin David Cheza (Michigan State), 1:46
#4 Ruschell dec. Eric Albright (Pittsburgh), 6-1
#4 Ruschell dec. #6 Matthew Kyler (Army), 4-3, TB2
#4 Ruschell dec. #9 Kevin LeValley (Bucknell), 3-1, SV1
#4 Ruschell dec. #5 Frank Molinaro (Penn State), 7-1
#3 Kyle Terry (Oklahoma) dec. #4 Ruschell, 5-4
Geez Kyle... have yourself a weekend. What a warrior. If I'm reading that right, blood round was #6 Kyler and he won in TB... then just cracked off two more wins.
take the nine point first period off and Model did well the rest of the match
Hamiti just wrecked that dude.
Zargo was right there. That was a winnable match.
Hamiti and Gomez are so fun to watch. Good first round for them.
Bonus points in all three wins will help in team standings where I project the Badgers will end up in a group of 5-8 teams all only separated by a couple of points
Brutal way for Amos to give up that 1st takedown.
Just don't know where he is headed. Looks a bit lost and frustrated out there not knowing what to do.
Had chances to get first takedown and gave one up and then got in position but ran out of time at end of 2nd period
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 17, 2022, 02:19:49 PM
Brutal way for Amos to give up that 1st takedown
It definitely was.
Did Buchanan wrestle yet?
tough one point loss by Amos and Trent, ouch!
Hilger had a chance to turn the corner with about 10 seconds left. He relaxed just a little and allowed Elam to essentially stalemate to end the match.
Frustrating loss.
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 17, 2022, 02:32:15 PM
tough one point loss by Amos and Trent, ouch!
Both lost their matches because they lost the first takedown. A wise old coach always yelled at us that the guy that gets the first takedown wins 90% of the matches. Pretty sure he was making it up but the stat may not be too far off.
At this level if you can get that first takedown you can wrestle pretty conservatively and defensively and win the match
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 17, 2022, 02:33:41 PM
Hilger had a chance to turn the corner with about 10 seconds left. He relaxed just a little and allowed Elam to essentially stalemate to end the match.
Frustrating loss.
He absolutely missed that chance. Just wasn't the urgency there that you thought would be there at the end
Also note, both Joey and Trent cut the guy in the late third period while tied rather than ride out to OT. Both lost because they couldn't get the TD. What happened to the skill of riding?
Quote from: Oldtimer on March 17, 2022, 02:38:08 PM
Also note, both Joey and Trent cut the guy in the late third period while tied rather than ride out to OT. Both lost because they couldn't get the TD. What happened to the skill of riding?
I think both were the right calls. Zargo looked gassed though and just took a whiff of a shot and gave up the takedown. Inexperience got him there and likely overly gasses from being choked.
Although not a good round by record with going 3-6 I thought the guys wrestled pretty well. Model had a bad first period, Zargo and Amos both gave their higher ranked opponents all they could handle. A lot of winnable matches this session. Need to do much better than 3-6. Hoping for a 8-1 round!
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 17, 2022, 02:47:06 PM
Quote from: Oldtimer on March 17, 2022, 02:38:08 PM
Also note, both Joey and Trent cut the guy in the late third period while tied rather than ride out to OT. Both lost because they couldn't get the TD. What happened to the skill of riding?
I think both were the right calls. Zargo looked gassed though and just took a whiff of a shot and gave up the takedown. Inexperience got him there and likely overly gasses from being choked.
Agreed, Joey did not look like the same guy after nearly getting choked out. Really looked like he had all the momentum and was heading toward the win up until that point. Pretty disappointing that the official did not stop that.
This next round is huge for the Badgers. 3 heartbreaking close losses but those matches are over. I can't wait to see how those young men respond on the backside.
Personally, I would not have had Zargo cut him. Mathews looked disoriented and winded and the coaching staff had him cut him. Would love to see how that would have played out if he tried to dominate him on top. The improvement by Zargo this year has been awesome and I love his fight. Amos is so close. We knew Hillger would have to make some noise on the backside.
Super excited to watch Barnett, Gomez and Hamiti tear it up on the front side.
Interview of Bono on Twitter: https://twitter.com/i/status/1504581256562069506 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1504581256562069506)
Let's go!
Interview of Bono on Twitter: https://twitter.com/i/status/1504581256562069506 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1504581256562069506)
Let's go!
[/quote]
Good honest interview.
Kaylor is pretty tall. See how Barnett handles his length.
Not a great time to go for the big move when you are up 1-0. We had not really seen that risk taking this year. Have to get it done on the back.
Totally agree. Barnett may have got caught once early this season, if I remember correctly. Otherwise he has been consistently solid. He does love to roll. Battle back now.
Gomez attacked and countered Finesilver's attacks so good this match. Super solid match.
That's the most nervous I have been during a Hamiti match. Usually I am just entertained. He is the best we have at putting up loads points from any position.
Ramirez really stalled to get the 3rd period started. That was maddening to watch.
Quote from: CLC FAN on March 09, 2022, 10:30:08 AM
Just trying to pre-process my emotions lol... I feel like
5 AAs or up likely means 50 points or up means I'm feeling fantastic about the Badgers.
4 AAs could mean anything from mid 30s to mid 40s for points means I'm more happy with the direction of the program than with the outcome of this year's NCAAs and I'm still hungry to see us take a big step forward.
3 AAs.... if they are really high AAs this could have quite a sheen to it and get a lot of people excited... but I still think I'll be somewhere between meh and grrr about the program. To get to the level of that annual Top 10 status (gotta be Missouri before you can dream about being Iowa/Penn St) we need those blood round wins and multiple semifinalists/finalsits...
Anything under 3 AAs has me wishing for a baseball season to focus on.
Based on an 8th place finish at big 10s, it's pretty logical to add 6 places to that. 14th maybe?
that is a big win for Zargo
What are they challenging in Zargo's match?
Zargo never gives up.
Stud
Good start now hopefully we get a couple more backside WINS!
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 17, 2022, 08:41:38 PM
Zargo never gives up.
His future ceiling is pretty high IMO. Keep the motor through 3 periods, get stronger, and keep improving his offense.
He has a tough match against Airez. He has beat Filius earlier this year if he can get past Airez.
2-1 on the front and 3-3 on back.
Hoping the next round on the front 2-0 and on the back 2-2
Thoughts on Day 1
125: Not ideal for Barnett. Instead of wrestling Glory or lower seeded wrestler in the blood round, he now has Heinselman followed by the winner of Ayala/Camacho followed by the loser of Latona/Suriano. No treat there. If he AAs, he earned it.
133: As expected. No comment at this time.
141: Zargo is legit. Sucks that he has Alirez tomorrow morning. He is battling through all positions though. Hoping for a good match.
149: Gomez is on fire. Looking forward to tomorrow. Him against Andonian may break the clocks.
157: I thought Model wrestled well. Really tough draw.
165: Dean Hamiti is one tough dude. What a comeback win. Big time showdown with Griffith in the AM.
184 As expected. No comment at this time.
197: Tough row to hoe on the backside tomorrow. Happy that he won a match, but going to have to open up to win these next couple.
285: Did Trent's draw get easier by losing first round? Fernandes, Traxler, and Lance is a very doable path for him.
Quote from: tigerking on March 17, 2022, 10:04:38 PM
Thoughts on Day 1
125: Not ideal for Barnett. Instead of wrestling Glory or lower seeded wrestler in the blood round, he now has Heinselman followed by the winner of Ayala/Camacho followed by the loser of Latona/Suriano. No treat there. If he AAs, he earned it.
133: As expected. No comment at this time.
141: Zargo is legit. Sucks that he has Alirez tomorrow morning. He is battling through all positions though. Hoping for a good match.
149: Gomez is on fire. Looking forward to tomorrow. Him against Andonian may break the clocks.
157: I thought Model wrestled well. Really tough draw.
165: Dean Hamiti is one tough dude. What a comeback win. Big time showdown with Griffith in the AM.
184 As expected. No comment at this time.
197: Tough row to hoe on the backside tomorrow. Happy that he won a match, but going to have to open up to win these next couple.
285: Did Trent's draw get easier by losing first round? Fernandes, Traxler, and Lance is a very doable path for him.
Trent's path did get easier on paper.
Quote from: tigerking on March 17, 2022, 10:04:38 PM
Thoughts on Day 1
125: Not ideal for Barnett. Instead of wrestling Glory or lower seeded wrestler in the blood round, he now has Heinselman followed by the winner of Ayala/Camacho followed by the loser of Latona/Suriano. No treat there. If he AAs, he earned it.
133: As expected. No comment at this time.
141: Zargo is legit. Sucks that he has Alirez tomorrow morning. He is battling through all positions though. Hoping for a good match.
149: Gomez is on fire. Looking forward to tomorrow. Him against Andonian may break the clocks.
157: I thought Model wrestled well. Really tough draw.
165: Dean Hamiti is one tough dude. What a comeback win. Big time showdown with Griffith in the AM.
184 As expected. No comment at this time.
197: Tough row to hoe on the backside tomorrow. Happy that he won a match, but going to have to open up to win these next couple.
285: Did Trent's draw get easier by losing first round? Fernandes, Traxler, and Lance is a very doable path for him.
Perfect analysis. Aggressive Trent I believe can AA today.
I will say this... I stand by my emotional response analysis at the start of this thread, but... it feels really good to see kids in UW singlets compete well. Even in our losses we are not getting ridden for whole periods and looking lost. This squad has giddy-up, and it's fun to see that.
Quote from: CLC FAN on March 18, 2022, 09:31:49 AM
I will say this... I stand by my emotional response analysis at the start of this thread, but... it feels really good to see kids in UW singlets compete well. Even in our losses we are not getting ridden for whole periods and looking lost. This squad has giddy-up, and it's fun to see that.
100%! I have said this several time this year that this is my favorite Badger team to watch ever. They wrestle the vast majority of the time regardless of the score or the situation.
I was watching Cole Matthews of Pitt win a 2-2 TB match in the round of 16 and I said to my son that I sure am glad the Badgers do not wrestle like that. If they did I would probably still watch and go to the matches but I would not be very excited about it. I love college wrestling but there is too much much time spent not trying to score. I like the change to a 2 minute 1st period tie breaker but adding riding time to the TB has made things worse. Matthews deferred in the TB and his opponent picked down. He stalled on top for 30 seconds and got the ride out, picked neutral and stalled for 30 more seconds on his feet and won on riding time. I am not picking on the young man from Pitt because that was certainly good strategy to win and he is not the only wrestler doing it but being rewarded for wrestling a minute with no attempt to score is not good for the sport.
We are very fun to watch. I say this as a fan who wants to see the program reach new levels. We scrap more and overall are just more competitive. Sure we all want more, just as the coaches and wrestlers do. The program is trending in the right direction. Let's have a great Friday.
Ayala lost so Barnett has the NC State wrestler
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 10:23:41 AM
Ayala lost so Barnett has the NC State wrestler
Oh and great job Barnett winning your Friday morning match!!
Barnett has improved tons this year. He has more diverse attacks from his feet. He is in more control throughout a match.
Time to win against Camacho.
Dang. That was a dog fight. AG came out on the wrong end of a few situations.
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2022, 11:07:15 AM
Dang. That was a dog fight. Came out on the wrong end of a few situations.
Lost out on some of those scrambles
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2022, 11:07:15 AM
Dang. That was a dog fight. Came out on the wrong end of a few situations.
So, are you saying Barnett just wrestled Camacho and lost? Need just a little context in the post because people are prone to just go off in a different direction in a given thread without notice or context. Can you clarify, please?
Quote from: npope on March 18, 2022, 11:13:05 AM
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2022, 11:07:15 AM
Dang. That was a dog fight. Came out on the wrong end of a few situations.
So, are you saying Barnett just wrestled Camacho and lost? Need just a little context in the post because people are prone to just go off in a different direction in a given thread without notice or context. Can you clarify, please?
Fixed it above. Meant Austin.
Quote from: npope on March 18, 2022, 11:13:05 AM
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2022, 11:07:15 AM
Dang. That was a dog fight. Came out on the wrong end of a few situations.
So, are you saying Barnett just wrestled Camacho and lost? Need just a little context in the post because people are prone to just go off in a different direction in a given thread without notice or context. Can you clarify, please?
No, Gomez lost.
Hamiti about to start
https://www.espn.com/watch/player/_/id/25f7fbda-52b5-4756-91b6-f4838c233c7b#bucketId=29971
Hamiti lost 10-4
Dropping in the team standings
Hamiti lost the final seconds of each period in that one. Never really got anything going.
Slick ankle pick, though.
Quote from: head57 on March 18, 2022, 11:42:15 AM
Hamiti lost the final seconds of each period in that one. Never really got anything going.
Slick ankle pick, though.
I think if I remember correctly his opponent was a pretty good wrestler, great year for DH and he is going to come back and place 3rd
Not a good round
Griffith is very good. Definitely lost the end of periods.
Ceiling is huge for DJ. We are blessed to be able to pull for him.
Lost opportunity for Gomez as Lovett from Nebraska, #10 seed, pinned #2 seed Wilson from NC State.
Amine beat Marinelli!
What was Gomez's score?
Disappointing to not have a guy wrestling in the semi's but lots of chances for guys to get to the podium yet. Let's go.
Gomez was down 10-5 and then got stuck at end of 3rd period. Was ridden hard all match
Wisconsin tied for 19th, with 13 points. Ouch!
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 12:02:53 PM
Gomez was down 10-5 and then got stuck at end of 3rd period. Was ridden hard all match
Ouch. Didn't see that coming.
Quote from: head57 on March 18, 2022, 11:53:42 AM
What was Gomez's score?
Disappointing to not have a guy wrestling in the semi's but lots of chances for guys to get to the podium yet. Let's go.
He was down and went for the Twister and got pinned. Two last second TD's went to review and both went against him which kind of changed the tone of the match. It stings because he would have had Lovett in the semis. However, everyone of the 9 still has a chance to wrestle to or above their seed.
DJ has a doable path to the 3rd place match. Probably a better path than if he would have lost to Evan in the semis. Austin is certainly capable of beating anyone who is on the back and I am sure he will get it back on track tonight.
Badgers will likely end this round in 21st place
Solid wrestling yet the rest of the day could still get them 4 all americans.
Toughest match blocking that prediction is Barnett's next match. If he can win this one he will be favored in his next one.
Amos losses two by two total points. He needs to find a way to win those next year and he could have a big year. Coach him up!
Braxton was in such good position to get that TD with the single leg. I thought he had it for sure, but definitely didn't expect Caffey to get points off of it.
Really remarkable how he lost literally every close match against a good wrestler this year. Almost beyond bad luck. He is so close to the top guys, but just couldn't ever find a win. Hopefully he will figure it out this offseason, as he is not far away from the top.
133,141,157,184,197,HWT, finished for the tourney. "Ouch", thought 197 was going to AA. We need a lot of wins to finish in the top 20...
Add Hillger to the list. OUCH.
Quote from: mkm13 on March 18, 2022, 01:09:36 PM
Really remarkable how he lost literally every close match against a good wrestler this year. Almost beyond bad luck. He is so close to the top guys, but just couldn't ever find a win. Hopefully he will figure it out this offseason, as he is not far away from the top.
[/quote
+1
and trent the same, two one point losses. Does he and Model still have another year with the Covid year out there?
disappointing tournament for sure, just couldn't finish shots
and then there were three...
hope they get some wins this round and the ones to come!
Hilger beat Fernandez in the dual 6-2. Bummer. I thought he had a good chance this tourney, but he just did not finish the season strong. Really wasn't as good on his feet as I had hoped all season long. Didn't really make a jump from last season.
Good win for Barnett. Keep on winning EB
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 18, 2022, 01:27:44 PM
Good win for Barnett. Keep on winning EB
Definitely a good win. He won the scrambles.
Who works with the heavy guys during practice? Gross was light, and Bono and Reader were both middleweights if I am remembering right. Is there anyone on staff that works particularly with the big men?
Quote from: jets152 on March 18, 2022, 01:36:41 PM
Who works with the heavy guys during practice? Gross was light, and Bono and Reader were both middleweights if I am remembering right. Is there anyone on staff that works particularly with the big men?
Newton
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 18, 2022, 12:13:23 PM
Quote from: head57 on March 18, 2022, 11:53:42 AM
What was Gomez's score?
Disappointing to not have a guy wrestling in the semi's but lots of chances for guys to get to the podium yet. Let's go.
He was down and went for the Twister and got pinned. Two last second TD's went to review and both went against him which kind of changed the tone of the match. It stings because he would have had Lovett in the semis. However, everyone of the 9 still has a chance to wrestle to or above their seed.
DJ has a doable path to the 3rd place match. Probably a better path than if he would have lost to Evan in the semis. Austin is certainly capable of beating anyone who is on the back and I am sure he will get it back on track tonight.
Love his style & motor - but wish he would have wrestled the 3rd under a bit of control. The 2nd should have told him that. Looked like Andonian's length & scrambling was a problem for Gomez - not sure why that would be ... since he's dealt with Lovett's length & scrambling ability well this year. May be a bit of control ... after 2 periods of "his" way.
Quote from: head57 on March 18, 2022, 12:13:04 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 12:02:53 PM
Gomez was down 10-5 and then got stuck at end of 3rd period. Was ridden hard all match
Ouch. Didn't see that coming.
I had Andonian picked in a pool(in fact, both Lovett and Andonian in the semis)...but changed it because I wanted to see Gomez win...but it wasn't even so much that HE(Andonian) was impressive. It seemed as though Gomez not scoring that TD at the end of the 1st kinda rattled him and then he showed him too much respect. He was able to get in on his legs and finish...and Gomez can throw himself. In fact, I thought he was getting in on the legs rather easily. Think he swung for the fences too early, but...he can still Wrestleback. 149 feels like HWT in that the winner is a foregone conclusion though.
Amos wrestled awesome against Caffey and lost it right at the end. Very similiar to his Big Ten match against Hoffman who is now an All American. Amos has made a lot of progress from the beginning of the season. Looking forward to what he does next year and what he decides to do 197, 285, or redshirt.
Most national polls/predictions had UW finishing 18-21. How some people on "the forum" said top 8 for sure baffles me. They must have watching a different team than me. And the of the country for that matter.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 18, 2022, 03:15:43 PM
Amos wrestled awesome against Caffey and lost it right at the end. Very similiar to his Big Ten match against Hoffman who is now an All American. Amos has made a lot of progress from the beginning of the season. Looking forward to what he does next year and what he decides to do 197, 285, or redshirt.
Agreed.
Quote from: FinalWord on March 18, 2022, 03:40:50 PM
Most national polls/predictions had UW finishing 18-21. How some people on "the forum" said top 8 for sure baffles me. They must have watching a different team than me. And the of the country for that matter.
You really can't piece together why on the WISCONSIN Wrestling Forum fans may have been optimistic about their placement at the NCAA Tournament?
Huh...yeah, I'm struggling to crack that puzzle myself.
Also, Intermat, Tournament Ranking;
Wisconsin-7th as of March 8
Wisconsin projected finish BASED ON SEEDING-8th place
Also kinda coming in here off the high ropes with the, "I knew all along, not sure why you fools didn't," at what's almost certainly Wisconsin's LOWEST point.
To what end? I'm genuinely curious on this one? What point are you attempting to make that you believe you NEED to articulate here?
I think that out of the 3 left we might get 1 AA, Hopefully....
Quote from: gwmiller44 on March 18, 2022, 06:50:02 PM
I think that out of the 3 left we might get 1 AA, Hopefully....
Who are Barnett, Gomez and Hamiti going to get their next match?
https://www.trackwrestling.com/predefinedtournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&TIM=1647614372117&pageName=%2Fpredefinedtournaments%2FBracketViewer.jsp&twSessionId=lxbkjzqqqw
Brackets on Track
Latona
Gfeller
Wentzel
I expect them to win all 3 which would be 3 AA's
I am still optimistic we get 3 in the top 4.
I'll be ready to look forward to the off-season and next year once this tourney ends.
Latona is long. Will be a great test for EB.
Quote from: gwmiller44 on March 18, 2022, 06:50:02 PM
I think that out of the 3 left we might get 1 AA, Hopefully....
got one and I hope we see more
That is awesome for Eric. He gets McKee next for top 6. Going to be some fireworks.
2 time AA, and this year with the Ivy league schools.
Eric has taken a big jump from last year.
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2022, 07:15:09 PM
That is awesome for Eric. He gets McKee next for top 6. Going to be some fireworks.
2 time AA, and this year with the Ivy league schools.
Eric has taken a big jump from last year.
+1
Same match that he wrestled Mckee last year.
Click on "consolation". Should be just to the right of the word championship above the bracket.
Gfeller looks like a 157 or 165 pounder.
then there were two!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 18, 2022, 07:45:31 PM
then there were two!
Let's get 1 more. Same mat. Good mojo.
Final Word about to change his mind.
3
Great round for the Badgers now work your way up the podium!
:-*
Quote from: onwisconsin on March 18, 2022, 07:39:39 PM
Click on "consolation". Should be just to the right of the word championship above the bracket.
Yeah, I saw it right when I went back...hadn't seen it all weekend...thanks!
Was hoping for 4 or 5. I'll take 3. Yes, lets keep moving up!
Quote from: gwmiller44 on March 18, 2022, 06:50:02 PM
I think that out of the 3 left we might get 1 AA, Hopefully....
Next round
McKee - MINN
Wilson - NCST
Hall - WVU
3 crazy matches.
Gomez/Wilson with tons of action and limited scoring early in that match.
Hamiti with a gritty win. He can score from anywhere as an 18-19 year old. Hoping to see a lot more cradles in the future.
Gomez with 3or 4 throws OB that was exciting.
Note if Hamiti is injured and you gain choice, don't take bottom.
EB rematch with Kaylor for 7th
AG consi semi vs Sasso
DJ consi semi vs Amine
gwmiller and finalword are awful quiet. Good round. Looking forward to what Gomez and Hamiti can do tomorrow.
Hamati and Gomez are so much fun to watch wrestle. Enjoying their grit
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_medium=share_sheet
Bono pretty candid about both team results and the challenges of the tourney. Talks about the 3 AA. All three give a little interview after Coach Bono is done.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 18, 2022, 09:41:43 PM
gwmiller and finalword are awful quiet. Good round. Looking forward to what Gomez and Hamiti can do tomorrow.
While I don't agree with what finalword posted, he didn't say how many AAs we'd have and we are currently in 16th
Quote from: imwi on March 18, 2022, 10:09:07 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 18, 2022, 09:41:43 PM
gwmiller and finalword are awful quiet. Good round. Looking forward to what Gomez and Hamiti can do tomorrow.
While I don't agree with what finalword posted, he didn't say how many AAs we'd have and we are currently in 16th
60% said we'd get 3 AAs(or fewer).
3 AAs was always the most likely and qwmiller said he'd be "lucky" to get one.
As for Final Word...he didn't say much of anything. He stated these National Rankins that...he didn't share and nobody has seen, and basically just said, at the Badgers LOWEST point in the Tourney, 'I don't know why you guys didn't know as much as I did, I knew all along.' Paraphrasing.
I didn't actually see any predictions, but he DID go after fans who said they'd place 8th(which again, didn't really see any, I DID simply see people who posted a FACT...based on our seeds, we'd finish in 8th place).
If there is literally any value to any of his post, please let me know what it is. Maybe I just missed it.
3 AA's is very good. Always disappointing seeing guys like Gomez and Hamiti lose as they have the talemt to be wrestling for the championship, but the tournament is so tough. No room for error.
Unfortunately we didnt get much of anything in terms of points from the remaining wrestlers. Hillger just didnt have it this year and Braxton was 0-11 on close matches this year. So close, just came up short every time for whatever reason.
.
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
Foy x 3
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 11:09:48 PM
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
I thought he beat Cardenas...which TBH is why he wasn't in my bracket, but now I see he lost 3-1 in SV...which is basically the same as he loses to Warner or 32 Hoffman(7-5 SV).
I Don't know, I guess Foy? And he beat him a bunch of times. It's like once he believes he can beat you...he's good. Gotta just get past that. He walked Caffey out with that underhook that he should have scored with....but...still a Freshmen.
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 11:09:48 PM
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
Also very important is who he lost to. Of his 11 losses, he lost to Warner (finalist), AA Bulsak 3 times, AA Schultz, AA Bastida, AA Hoffman, and a really really good Caffey. The average points lost by on all of those was probably 1-2 points. He is VERY VERY close. When he turns that corner, he will be GREAT like we all know he can be!!
Amos is good and will become better. Money would be on him being an AA next year. Foy however should not be the bar.............
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 11:09:48 PM
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
I thought he beat Cardenas...which TBH is why he wasn't in my bracket, but now I see he lost 3-1 in SV...which is basically the same as he loses to Warner or 32 Hoffman(7-5 SV).
I Don't know, I guess Foy? And he beat him a bunch of times. It's like once he believes he can beat you...he's good. Gotta just get past that. He walked Caffey out with that underhook that he should have scored with....but...still a Freshmen.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Amos is good and will become better. Money would be on him being an AA next year. Foy however should not be the bar.............Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 11:09:48 PM
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
I thought he beat Cardenas...which TBH is why he wasn't in my bracket, but now I see he lost 3-1 in SV...which is basically the same as he loses to Warner or 32 Hoffman(7-5 SV).
I Don't know, I guess Foy? And he beat him a bunch of times. It's like once he believes he can beat you...he's good. Gotta just get past that. He walked Caffey out with that underhook that he should have scored with....but...still a Freshmen.
Totally agree.
Great job Austin! moves on to third/fourth place match!
Dean needs the next take down!
It'll be interesting to see the rematch with Andonian ... who has looked really good.
Have to say the MI guys have really looked good and Amine surprised me with the win over Dean, who moves on the 5th/6th place match now
Quote from: Harris on March 19, 2022, 09:35:20 AM
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Amos is good and will become better. Money would be on him being an AA next year. Foy however should not be the bar.............Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 11:09:48 PM
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
I thought he beat Cardenas...which TBH is why he wasn't in my bracket, but now I see he lost 3-1 in SV...which is basically the same as he loses to Warner or 32 Hoffman(7-5 SV).
I Don't know, I guess Foy? And he beat him a bunch of times. It's like once he believes he can beat you...he's good. Gotta just get past that. He walked Caffey out with that underhook that he should have scored with....but...still a Freshmen.
Totally agree.
He has wins over 2 other qualifiers. He teched Cole Urbas of Penn who won 1 match at the NCAA's and he beat Jaron Smith who also had a win at the NCAA's.
Eric Barnett with the Fall!
Great season Austin, fourth! what a come back!! Looking forward to next year with you wearing a W!!!
Overall a little disappointing showing for the badgers but not horrible. Seems like most guys finished a little below their seeds.
Do we know what happened to Dean? Great season and looking forward to next season!
Quote from: dad 2 5 on March 19, 2022, 12:34:37 PM
Do we know what happened to Dean? Great season and looking forward to next season!
Hurt his ankle last night. One of the pictures of the 3 AA's showed ice on his ankle, hoping the default was just a precaution.
I will qualify that with I don't know anything other than what I saw last night
He seem to be limping some in the consi semis against Amine. Do not know for sure if it was the same ankle or something else.
That was a fun and exciting season for the Badgers. Really enjoyed watching them wrestle this year especially in person.
Quote from: Harris on March 19, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
That was a fun and exciting season for the Badgers. Really enjoyed watching them wrestle this year especially in person.
+1
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 19, 2022, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: Harris on March 19, 2022, 12:50:15 PM
That was a fun and exciting season for the Badgers. Really enjoyed watching them wrestle this year especially in person.
+1
+2!
Three All-Americans in the national meet is a good capper to this season but in a larger perspective its basically par for the course for how UW has performed in the NCAAs in the past with the exception of a couple of seasons here and there going all the way back for 50 years. Bottom line is the program will not advance to becoming a consistent Top 10 team nationally or top five in the B1G until the team as a whole, rather than just a few individuals, learns how to be more consistent, learns how not to fade out at the end of seasons in the big meets and learns how to wrestle at or above and beyond their seeds. The great teams, one wrestler might have a bad meet or wash out, but not six or seven. Until that changes, Wisconsin is basically a middle-of-the-pack B1G team and mid-to-low Top 25 national team. That's ceiling right now. And this is a problem which goes all the way back. Even when Wisconsin had teams that were tops in the B1G outside of Iowa and had legitimate chances of winning the national title, I mean, they couldn't do it. Top-seeded guys would get beat in the first round. I member when I was in college and Dan Spilde got knocked out of the national tournament early on. Until this problem is solved, what we witnessed this past month is probably as a good as it gets.
Until people come out their pockets and start donating and building a larger RTC, quit crying about how they finish. If you want to compete, donate. Otherwise? 🤫
I snuck into the Michigan party here in Detroit. There's literally hundreds of people in here. There aren't 50 here rooting for the Badgers.
Money talks. BS runs the marathon.
Quote from: Ghetto on March 19, 2022, 02:07:43 PM
Until people come out their pockets and start donating and building a larger RTC, quit crying about how they finish. If you want to compete, donate. Otherwise? 🤫
I snuck into the Michigan party here in Detroit. There's literally hundreds of people in here. There aren't 50 here rooting for the Badgers.
Money talks. BS runs the marathon.
Exactly. RTC needs to grow.
I get how you feel. As a Gopher fan first, I get that way too.......It's never enough unless we win it all. The glory days were fun for a long time. In our case I think way did well considering we lost 12-19 points when Braxton Lee went down with a broken arm. It didn't help when O'Reilly tore his knee up in the Big Ten tourney. I think he'd at least have made the blood round, maybe better. We could have been top four as a team with just Lee competing.
The Badgers are getting better rapidly, much better. It is all recruiting. Actually it is three things, recruiting, recruiting, and recruiting. Too much was expected of a true freshman leading to disappointment that is unwarranted and unfair.
What do you think will happen next year for the Badgers? My prediction is that they do better next year.
They did great in the dual season. Fans were thrilled. The thing is, the duals are secondary to the big show.
Long story longer, the Badgers are better and have gotten better each year for the last few.
Now I have to get back to composing about the Gophers not winning it all!Others expectations were unrealistic from the get go(Weiler). The same thing happens with MN fans.
Quote from: wrestlemania on March 19, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
Three All-Americans in the national meet is a good capper to this season but in a larger perspective its basically par for the course for how UW has performed in the NCAAs in the past with the exception of a couple of seasons here and there going all the way back for 50 years. Bottom line is the program will not advance to becoming a consistent Top 10 team nationally or top five in the B1G until the team as a whole, rather than just a few individuals, learns how to be more consistent, learns how not to fade out at the end of seasons in the big meets and learns how to wrestle at or above and beyond their seeds. The great teams, one wrestler might have a bad meet or wash out, but not six or seven. Until that changes, Wisconsin is basically a middle-of-the-pack B1G team and mid-to-low Top 25 national team. That's ceiling right now. And this is a problem which goes all the way back. Even when Wisconsin had teams that were tops in the B1G outside of Iowa and had legitimate chances of winning the national title, I mean, they couldn't do it. Top-seeded guys would get beat in the first round. I member when I was in college and Dan Spilde got knocked out of the national tournament early on. Until this problem is solved, what we witnessed this past month is probably as a good as it gets.
Everyone is welcome to look at the season however you like but 9 qualifiers and 3 AA's in what is probably the most difficult season ever to AA (since they have gone to 8 AA's) and qualify with the number of super seniors participating is a significant achievement.
For some perspective.
Brandon Courtney - 2021 finalist at 125 finished 6th. EB was 1 spot better than last year but his side of the backside was stacked with the probably the best 3 all on the same side. Vito, McKee and EB all won their placement match.
Wrestler/2021 finish/2022 finish
Brandon Courtney/2/6
Tariq Wilson/3/7 - move up a weight
Jaydin Eierman/2/DNP - injured
Chad Red/6/DNP
Austin O'Connor/1/8 - move up a weight
Sammy Sasso/2/5
Yahya Thomas/3/DNP
David Carr/1/3
Kaleb Young/7/DNP
Wyatt Sheets/8/DNP
Jake Wentzel/2/DNP - knocked out by DJ
Zach Hartman/6/DNP
Anthony Valencia/8/DNP - injured last year - healthy this year
Ethan Smith/5/DNP - moved up a weight
Jackson Turley/8/Out of lineup
Mikey Labriola/3/7
Trent Hidlay/2/5
John Pozanski/4/DNP
Dakota Geet/5/DNP
Brit Wilson/6/DNP
Hunter Bolen/7/DNP
Lou Deprez/8/DNP - move up a weight
Nino Bonaccorsi/2/DNP
Jake Woodley/6/DNP
Trent Hilger/6/DNP
Tate Orndorff/8/DNP
I might have missed some but that is 19 out of 80 returning AA's who failed to medal. Really tough to AA this year.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Amos is good and will become better. Money would be on him being an AA next year. Foy however should not be the bar.............Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 18, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 18, 2022, 11:09:48 PM
Who is actually the best wrestler that Amos beat this year?
I thought he beat Cardenas...which TBH is why he wasn't in my bracket, but now I see he lost 3-1 in SV...which is basically the same as he loses to Warner or 32 Hoffman(7-5 SV).
I Don't know, I guess Foy? And he beat him a bunch of times. It's like once he believes he can beat you...he's good. Gotta just get past that. He walked Caffey out with that underhook that he should have scored with....but...still a Freshmen.
No, I don't think anyone thinks that should be the bar for one of the better recruits from last year, but...it's just the fact. He lost to pretty much everyone else 3-2 or 3-1 SV. And as I said, he had Caffey out of position so badly on his feet but didn't do anything with it. That tells me it's just a little bit of a confidence issue. Gomez for example, Hamiti, they're letting it fly.
Guys move at their own pace. We had a True frosh who had unearned confidence coming into the year and a RSFR who should have earned confidence...yet it was Hamiti who let it rip all year, and Amos who didn't want to get caught under a guy and as a result, wasn't as offensive as he could have been or hopefully will be in the future.
"Too much was expected of a true freshman leading to disappointment that is unwarranted and unfair. "
I wasn't talking about the freshmen or other underclassmen. You're right, that is unfair to have those kind expectations in a wrestlers' first year in college.
I think the Badgers had a heck of a year and I really look forward to watching this program get better and better. I think they could get 4-5 AAs next year and possibly a finalist or two. This year's tournament was brutal and quite honestly, is every year. Brand's face said it all during his interview this morning. There are some great Wisconsin high school wrestlers coming up in the next year or two and I hope a few of them choose Wisconsin. Throw in a few transfers and I think the Badgers are going to really excite their fan base. Like MNbadger said, recruiting, recruiting, and recruiting. I believe in Bono and his staff.
https://twitter.com/wrestlingnomad/status/1505142811603177476
All American status and high school graduation year. Quite interesting how much older some of guys are. Puts Hamiti's AA in perspective as pretty amazing. I think he was in 7th grade when Marinelli and Wick were seniors in high school.
Likely was the toughest year ever to AA.
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Couldn't have said it better.
Penn St is amazing with 5 national champs! That is crazy.
It is hard to keep all in state kids. I don't know how other states do. I think there were 14 MN natives in the tournament, 6 were Gophers. Not all of them fit.
If you have O'Toole, you likely don't get Hamiti. You might want to trade now but hind sight is 20/20.
The same for Buchanan. If you had him, you'd likely not get Amos who was a kid everyone wanted. This is hard to understand when PSU just keeps stockpiling talent deeper and deeper. To be honest, I don't care for the mechanism that makes for that reality but it is what it is.
Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
It is hard to keep all in state kids. I don't know how other states do. I think there were 14 MN natives in the tournament, 6 were Gophers. Not all of them fit.
If you have O'Toole, you likely don't get Hamiti. You might want to trade now but hind sight is 20/20.
The same for Buchanan. If you had him, you'd likely not get Amos who was a kid everyone wanted. This is hard to understand when PSU just keeps stockpiling talent deeper and deeper. To be honest, I don't care for the mechanism that makes for that reality but it is what it is. Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Well said MN
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
It is hard to keep all in state kids. I don't know how other states do. I think there were 14 MN natives in the tournament, 6 were Gophers. Not all of them fit.
If you have O'Toole, you likely don't get Hamiti. You might want to trade now but hind sight is 20/20.
The same for Buchanan. If you had him, you'd likely not get Amos who was a kid everyone wanted. This is hard to understand when PSU just keeps stockpiling talent deeper and deeper. To be honest, I don't care for the mechanism that makes for that reality but it is what it is. Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Otoole, Keckeisen, Mocco and Buchanan were available before Hamiti and Amos so we missed them either way. How about Whiting? Glad we got Rivera. Hopefully we can keep Hopke too.
We'll never keep all the in-state top tier talent. It's just not possible with the current structure. Is it improving? Absolutely. I'm assuming Bono is trying hard to get the top talent in the state right now, but it takes 2 to tango. Sometimes those kids just don't want to stay in state.
As for the kids mentioned, it's easy to understand why O'Toole went to Missouri. Barry Davis didn't recruit Keckeisen and by the time Bono did it was too late, Mocco was a late bloomer so understandable why he may have gone to whoever jumped on him first. Whiting will hurt cuz that kid could be an AA his true freshman year. But I like the class UW has coming in. 3 AA's may become the absolute minimum going forward and I'm excited about that.
Well kids go to schools for all kinds of reasons. To be honest, it boggles my mind in many cases, even kids that are not athletes make choices that seem weird to me. Their parents do the same. My own step daughter could have gone to a great number of schools for NOTHING due to her academics. She decided to go to a school in Canada and paid an exorbitant amount of money. Her mom had saved but her grandfather paid for much of it. I think it's nuts(I hope my wife does not see this). Had it been my call, I would have said pick one of the schools that leave you with no debt, non-negotiable.
I know wrestlers choose schools ostensibly for where they think their best chance to develop is in their mind. Likely their talent would let them be a NC or AA wherever they decide to go. For me then it comes down to economics and proximity. To others my criteria are not sound.
I also think we all overemphasize the school. I get that if I want to be an engineer and I can get into MIT it might matter. But other than that, colleges and universities are pretty similar. They all go through accreditation, etc. One's education is important but college is a means to an end when it's all said and done.
There are AAs from lots of schools. Appalachian State had at least one I think. Oklahoma State is great at wrestling but not many think it is an academic powerhouse. I know they still produce millionaires and doctors and regular working people just like every single other college out there.
I just listened to a podcast with Mark Schwab. At the time he was the number one recruit in the country. He chose UNI because of a girlfriend for gosh sakes.
I am rambling and I don't see any real answer . We like the coaches of the teams we root for. Wisconsin fans can't imagine not jumping at the chance to wrestle for Bono and go to Madison. That's how kids feel about lots of different programs.
"They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers."
Normally I would agree with that statement. But the following names I'm going to list here runs counter to this wisdom:
The following four-time WIAA State Champions went to UW: Matt Hanutke, Brian Slater, Scott Hady, Kevin Black, Cole Wunnicke, Jesse Thielke and Jens Lantz. Of this group, Only Black and Hanutke were All-Americans, none champions.
The following WIAA three-times state champions attended UW: Eric Barnett, Devin Bahr, Beau Breske, Cole Martin, Josh and Jordan Crass, Jake Donar, Eric Swick, Dennis Hall, Ron Pieper, John Harms. Of this group, only Barnett made All-American status. None champions.
Last UW champion from Wisconsin: Stoughton's Andy Rein in 1980.
Since that time, Wisconsin's national champions have been Jim Jordan (Ohio), Dave Lee (California), Matt Demaray (Minnesota), Jeff Walter (Pennsylvania), Donnie Prizlaff (New Jersey) and Andrew Howe (Indiana).
Just because you're a multi-state champion and attend UW doesn't mean success will follow. That's been the program's biggest failure. More kids from Wisconsin find success away from UW than they do in Madison for whatever reason and there are many and for whatever reason UW coaches have found more success coaching out-of-state wrestlers to All-American and national champion status than in-state wrestlers. Certainly Bono will recruit an in-state wrestler if he has the talent and fits what he wants for the program (like Rivera) but it wouldn't surprise me if wasn't priority one because the record shows, like it or not, being from the state is no indication of future success. Bono and his staff are going to recruit the best wrestlers at their respective weight classes regardless where they are from.
The Badgers actually finished tied for 14th nationally in the team standings which makes me feel a little better about their season. I mean, they were still a really good duals squad, their overall record the best in a decade and they've got a good incoming recruiting class. It will be interesting to see who sticks around, particularly the seniors who still have one year of eligibility left if they wish to exercise it. This will be season five for Bono and potentially the first where it's just his recruits in the wrestling room. If so, we'll see if that has any impact.
Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Yup...this is gonna be the key. You can't have 3 of your top...5/6 College Wrestlers feeding the Missouri pipeline.
Wisconsin is developing more HS Talent...so getting in on these top in state guys has to be Bono's top priority. I like the Coaching staff a lot. Bono, Reader, Gross. But it'd be nice to have SOMEONE on there that's got stronger ties to Wisconsin who could help keep these kids in State. Maybe that develops over time as you get guys through your program, but we're all looking at the talent Wisconsin will produce the next 2-3 years. If we want to have a Michigan type run(I'm kinda resigned to the fact that we're just not gonna be able to compete with PSU) you're gonna need to get Hopke, Milard and that kid from Milton? That 70 pounder was REAL nice. Mulvaney is a kid I'd absolutely recruit...and Sinclair handled him pretty well.
That's also a good way to develop College talent. The Mulvaney(who I know nothing about and am making assumptions here based on how good he's looked when I've watched him). He's coming off a year that'd normally be a year he dominated and walked through the bracket. Maybe had a tough match in the finals like the other two Arrowhead kids, but still, won. And now he's gotta be that much more motivated. So talent like Sinclair is doing more for the state than just what he'll bring. Same with Hopke and several other Wrestlers.
Quote from: wrestlemania on March 20, 2022, 01:21:36 AM
"They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers."
Normally I would agree with that statement. But the following names I'm going to list here runs counter to this wisdom:
The following four-time WIAA State Champions went to UW: Matt Hanutke, Brian Slater, Scott Hady, Kevin Black, Cole Wunnicke, Jesse Thielke and Jens Lantz. Of this group, Only Black and Hanutke were All-Americans, none champions.
The following WIAA three-times state champions attended UW: Eric Barnett, Devin Bahr, Beau Breske, Cole Martin, Josh and Jordan Crass, Jake Donar, Eric Swick, Dennis Hall, Ron Pieper, John Harms. Of this group, only Barnett made All-American status. None champions.
Last UW champion from Wisconsin: Stoughton's Andy Rein in 1980.
Since that time, Wisconsin's national champions have been Jim Jordan (Ohio), Dave Lee (California), Matt Demaray (Minnesota), Jeff Walter (Pennsylvania), Donnie Prizlaff (New Jersey) and Andrew Howe (Indiana).
Just because you're a multi-state champion and attend UW doesn't mean success will follow. That's been the program's biggest failure. More kids from Wisconsin find success away from UW than they do in Madison for whatever reason and there are many and for whatever reason UW coaches have found more success coaching out-of-state wrestlers to All-American and national champion status than in-state wrestlers. Certainly Bono will recruit an in-state wrestler if he has the talent and fits what he wants for the program (like Rivera) but it wouldn't surprise me if wasn't priority one because the record shows, like it or not, being from the state is no indication of future success. Bono and his staff are going to recruit the best wrestlers at their respective weight classes regardless where they are from.
You're looking at the past and it's meaningless with regard to the kids that are Wrestling now. There are obviously some fantastic Wrestlers in the list of Wrestlers you cited...but the quality of the talent that is coming out of Wisconsin HS Wrestling right now is on a whole other level than from any point in the 90s-2020. There have been a few outliers, but we just had two True Freshmen start last year and they've got 3/1 and 3/3 the last two years. Buchanan just took a 3rd and he got upset.
Mocco is an outstanding Wrestler. I'm also more talking about the kids that are coming up as it appears to be deeper....if it's as good at the top is to be determined(though I do believe there are kids with O'Toole/Paker type ability coming up, particularly in '24).
This requires more than just looking at past results and state rankings in Wisconsin. Kevin Black was obviously outstanding. What he did was unprecedented. I don't believe he was winning a Junior World Championship just out of HS...he didn't have the same level of success early on. Keegan has one loss to the National Champ last year. He's got a very good chance to go 3/1/1/1/1. I mean...getting a little ahead of ourselves here. Hoping the kid has no injury issues or whatever, but he's certainly got the ability to do so.
I used to give the Badgers a bit of a pass as the state just wasn't producing a lot of elite College Talent...and on the rare occasions they did, Eric Swick...he dealt with injuries, Garrett Lowney, he was both exceptional, but also undersized and that led a hometown guy to go to the same school.
But these guys are going out and proving themselves on the highest stages they can, they're dominating. Koy Hopke was just a National Champ in all 3 styles and I don't know if he's the #1 of #5 recruit in 2024. There is THAT much talent(and maybe a tough of hyperbole to highlight how good that group looks).
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
It is hard to keep all in state kids. I don't know how other states do. I think there were 14 MN natives in the tournament, 6 were Gophers. Not all of them fit.
If you have O'Toole, you likely don't get Hamiti. You might want to trade now but hind sight is 20/20.
The same for Buchanan. If you had him, you'd likely not get Amos who was a kid everyone wanted. This is hard to understand when PSU just keeps stockpiling talent deeper and deeper. To be honest, I don't care for the mechanism that makes for that reality but it is what it is. Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Maybe you don't get Hamiti...and that'd be a real shame as he's a whole lot of fun to watch...but you first have to take care of your own state. Also...maybe you do get him. Maybe Hamiti redshirts and then goes 174. He certainly has the length for it. Or one goes '57(seems less likely...Hamiti seems like he's a future '74 with his frame and potential to add size to his frame, but for the sake of argument).
Penn State is on another level, but you're also getting guys going there because they want to compete against the best. I'd be pretty excited about Hamiti/O'Toole/Mocco/Keckeisen/Buchanan/Amos top end of the lineup. Add Barnett to that lineup and that's a top ~3 team however the weights shake out before you consider Gomez/Hillger or how the level of talent in the room just MAY raise the level of Wrestling you're getting from other guys.
From what I know, Buchanan wasn't a top recruit, he just went out and outworked everyone to become one of the Nations best Wrestlers. I'd imagine having him in the room would have done wonders for Amos...and if he decides not to come, that would certainly be a shame as I think he has a lot of upside, but I don't know that's true.
Just over a year ago people were referring to him very favorably to AJ Ferrari. And he'd have been committing as Buchanan was coming off a nice Freshmen year, but one in which he lost 4 in a row in the B12 and...looked like a promising Freshmen, but he didn't look like a kid you're not going to try and go after one of the top recruits in the Country because you already have him.
I think all of those kids would have been good fits...and I'm not blaming Bono...yet. As has been pointed out, Wisconsin hasn't been a hotbed of Wrestling talent... But now that you can clearly see the level of talent in Wisconsin is on the rise, it's on the guy who coaches the ONLY Division one Program in the State of Wisconsin to take advantage of that and go out and convince those kids that staying home is the best decision.
A different take:
Huskers finish 5th with five AA's: https://huskers.com/news/2022/3/19/wrestling-huskers-secure-top-five-finish-at-ncaas.aspx
Cougar wanted a review of the Huskers. Nebraska has one of the finest coaching staffs in wrestling. Head coach Mark Manning has 21 years in Lincoln and the inevitable task of working for an AD who cut his alma mater's program. Asst head coach Brian Snyder has 11 years in and is working on a pipeline for Pennsylvania recruits. Robert Kokesh is in his fourth year as asst coach and Tervel Dlagnev is in his first year as volunteer asst. I'd like to see a lightweight coach added to the staff.
The recruiting pipeline is essential because the state of Nebraska has the worst high school wrestling in the Midwest. While it is improving there are only five Nebraska kids on the 36 man roster. Kansas has just as many while Minny supplied three. None of this years starters are from NE. Without a strong home state base recruiting nationally is a must.
The Huskers have averaged around 10th place at NCAA's during Manning's 21 years here. For comparison, JRob averaged 7.8 in his 30 years as head coach, while Eggum has averaged 9.6 in his five years.
How do they get kids to go to Lincoln?!?!?
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 07:32:23 AM
A different take:
Huskers finish 5th with five AA's: https://huskers.com/news/2022/3/19/wrestling-huskers-secure-top-five-finish-at-ncaas.aspx
Cougar wanted a review of the Huskers. Nebraska has one of the finest coaching staffs in wrestling. Head coach Mark Manning has 21 years in Lincoln and the inevitable task of working for an AD who cut his alma mater's program. Asst head coach Brian Snyder has 11 years in and is working on a pipeline for Pennsylvania recruits. Robert Kokesh is in his fourth year as asst coach and Tervel Dlagnev is in his first year as volunteer asst. I'd like to see a lightweight coach added to the staff.
The recruiting pipeline is essential because the state of Nebraska has the worst high school wrestling in the Midwest. While it is improving there are only five Nebraska kids on the 36 man roster. Kansas has just as many while Minny supplied three. None of this years starters are from NE. Without a strong home state base recruiting nationally is a must.
The Huskers have averaged around 10th place at NCAA's during Manning's 21 years here. For comparison, JRob averaged 7.8 in his 30 years as head coach, while Eggum has averaged 9.6 in his five years.
How do they get kids to go to Lincoln?!?!?
Well...Nebraska certainly had an outstanding Tournament, but this is also the most AAs they've had since 2008.
But sure, they've got a great coaching staff and the worst HS Wrestling in the Midwest(wouldn't have quite guessed that, but I know it's not a hotbed). But Wisconsin doesn't. Not anymore. I'm not assigning any blame to anyone here or complaining about the past or that we lost out on the guys who are succeeding now...I'm simply saying if the Badgers are going to make a big jump into that top 5-10 range, they're going to need to keep their top in-state talent.
If you don't have that talent...then you have no choice to recruit out of state and hope it works out...and they've certainly hit a few HRs out of New Jersey(As Wisconsin has when THEY were lacking that in-state talent).
But when you DO have in-state talent, that has to be the keystone to developing a good College program. You have an inherent advantage for starters(an advantage may have been mitigated by certain circumstances with O'Toole and a couple others, but I don't actually know that).
I'll put it this way...if the Badgers aren't getting a handful of the top kids from the 2024 recruiting class, I have a real hard time seeing how they'll end up taking that next step and jump into that second tier just behind Iowa/PSU in the B1G and a top ~5-8 program.
NeBraska's finish this year is a little reminiscent of some of the Badgers teams when they had say Donny or Graff/Medberry/Ruschell. Kevin Black and Trevor Branvold may have been homegrown talent, but the state just wasn't producing much at the time. Now they are.
This is just kinda a rule across sports. I seriously doubt Nebraska was one of the top 15 most talented states for HS Football, but they went on a run in the 90s that's almost unprecedented and had long been a Football power house dating back to the 60s-70s. But were they the norm or was Ohio State, Penn State, Texas, about 5 Florida Schools, USC and a couple other Cali schools, LSU...and schools like that building the majority of their class from within their talent rich states?
I understand what you're saying...but I still think the in-state talent has to be a bigger priority. Maybe this is just an outstanding group of athletes and it won't last and the state hasn't actually taken the big step I think it has, but for right now, the talent is there and I think they need to capitalize on it.
It's also easier to sustain.
By the way, just a side note...that Arizona State team looks absolutely incredible. IF there is a team that could give PSU a run next year, it has to be them. I believe pretty much their entire starting lineup is back next year and most of them have 2 years left. I like how they wrestle as well.
That team could be like Michigan this year...but better. Not really related to the Badgers at the NCAA but man that team is loaded. Another Valencia coming through also(tough I don't know how good he is).
We can continue to be "good" and occasionally have a "very good" year but I'm saying that if we want to go to the next level and be there consistently, we'll have to get more (we'll never get all) of the top in-state kids. As others have said, HS talent here is getting better so that's an opportunity lost if you don't take advantage of it.
Unfortunately, we have a tradition of the top Badger wrestlers being from out of state and the top in-state talent having more success out of state. Look at all the national champions that went to HS in WI - guys like O'Toole, Dieringer, Konrad, Askren, and other that have been AAs. Almost all the AAs went out of state, and all the national champions did lately.
This is a tradition that Bono inherited so I'm not blaming him. I don't even know if I can blame Davis either. To a certain extent, this is just the way it worked out. Look at it this way: lots of room for improvement in this area. Seems like the low hanging fruit that is available to get us over the hump. Other pathways will be much more difficult. I think the UW coaches would agree.
I realize that Mocco is a very good wrestler ... and I'd love to have him at WI - but I didn't see him on the podium. His escape from WI is nowhere near the level of hand-wringing as O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Buchannan. And, by the way, he lost his first round match to Mason Kaufman ... who would have been nice to have as well.
Not that it would have necessarily made a difference ... since O'Toole committed to MO (via Askren) - but I believe that was before Bono was hired.
I will respectfully disagree. I think it is more important to be able to recruit the best talent nationally rather than in state first. If the goal as you stated is to more than occasionally "very good". In state recruiting success is helpful but not nearly as important as national success in pulling wrestlers to the program.
MN couldn't get Mark Hall and others for different reasons. We were not able to keep one of this year's best recruits who is going to Wyoming I think. Another good kid, multiple time placer doesn't want to wrestle anymore. There are too many situations to list.
If you look at the numbers below it is obvious where one should be recruiting from.......
Pennsylvania42
New Jersey33
Illinois33
Ohio22
Michigan17
California17
New York16
Minnesota14
Iowa13
Indiana11
Colorado11
Oklahoma9
Florida9
Virginia8
Missouri8
Wisconsin7
Kansas7
Georgia7
North Carolina5
Maryland4
West Virginia3
Washington3
Arizona3
North Dakota3
Montana3
Massachusetts3
Tennessee2
Utah2
Nebraska2
Connecticut2
Alaska2
Wyoming1
South Carolina1
Oregon1
New Hampshire1
(Cuba)1
Kentucky1
Idaho1
Hawaii1
Alabama1
Emphasizing in state recruiting over national recruiting puts you with the present Gopher program. They do quite well overall of keeping MN kids. When we were at the top we were drawing kids from all over the nation.
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.
For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.
Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.
There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.
What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?
Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.
There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.
Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:
1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general.
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish.
Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).
Quote from: Army Ant on March 20, 2022, 02:37:48 PM
Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:
1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general.
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish.
Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).
There is a fair bit to unpack here but I would like to respond.
I am sure we can agree that there is finite amount of resources (time and money) and I believe that the Badgers coaches are using every bit of it. So it is safe to assume that is you want more of the resources used in state you have to give up something nationally. You cannot have both. It is also not fair to look back and say they should have gotten this wrestler over that wrestler. As an example Thielke, Sueflohn and Dieringer all came out in the same class. We all thought they were great and would have loved to have all of them. The Badgers of course did not get them all. I imagine at the time most of us would have predicted AA's for all of them and possibly some championships for Thielke and Dieringer. Would anyone seriously have predicted zero AA's for the first 2 and 3 championships and currently one of the top FS wrestlers at his weight in the world for Dieringer? Also in that same recruiting class the Badgers signed Cody Caldwell (who had beaten Dieringer) and Destin McCauley who I believe may have been the #1 overall. Of course neither of them ended up wrestling here for different reasons but my point is at the time based on that class the Dieringer miss did not appear to be as big as it was.
So if you want more Wisconsin kids who are you willing to give up? Who would you rather of had last year over DJ? I assume you would have rather had Keegan over Braxton in 2020 but at the time I did on see anyone on this forum complaining about getting the #1 overall recruit. Sure both would be great but realistically that does not happen for a college (with the exception of somehow inexplicitly Ohio St getting the top 3 recruits for 2022). None of them are from Ohio for what it is worth. Who do you want to give up for next year to get more WI kids. You giving up Rowley to get Whiting?. Did Whiting even have any interest in the UW?
Your assertion that you get more bang for the buck in state is likely true. So I will not dispute that but the bucks are not unlimited. Also the increased fan base based on WI kids is definitely a possibility but I have sat in the field house and watched teams with a lot more WI kids in the lineup vs this year with only 2 and I can say I enjoyed watching this team wrestle more than any team ever. Additionally I would say the hype surrounding Braxton committing, winning world medals, and competing in the olympic trials created more buzz than I can remember in a long time. I do not know the attendance figures but the crowds seemed pretty good this year and that was coming off covid and with a mask mandate that may have hurt the crowd some.
I am opposite of you as far WI kids vs Badgers but I may be in the minority. I root for all Badgers equally regardless of where they are from. I do follow the WI HS kids who wrestle elsewhere and wish them well (when not wrestling the Badgers) but I am way more invested in the Badger lineup. I also attend every home meet and what every road match.
As far as the kids knowing each other encouraging them to wrestle together there is something but how often are there really high end WI on the same HS team. These top kids wrestle year round all over the country and around the world so there relationships with other wrestlers are not just local. Rowley mentioned that 2 of the reasons he committed to the UW was because of his relationship with Coach Reader and his relationship with Braxton. Top end wrestlers want to train with other top end wrestlers (ie Penn St) and WI HS does not have enough of them to fill the room.
Lastly, please give some example of the years and years of WI AA's wrestling at other schools. I do not remember that many.
Penn State roster lists 39 wrestlers, 13 from PA.
I think only one starter is from PA. They have two great wrestlers from MN that lamented when they went there.
Iowa roster lists 33 wrestlers, 9 from IA.
One starter from IA (Brands). They have three MN kids that were lamented when they went there.
This debate is interesting because the MN staff is criticized for two things:
Trying to win with MN kids.
Losing MN kids to other schools.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 03:21:16 PM
Quote from: Army Ant on March 20, 2022, 02:37:48 PM
Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:
1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general.
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish.
Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).
There is a fair bit to unpack here but I would like to respond.
I am sure we can agree that there is finite amount of resources (time and money) and I believe that the Badgers coaches are using every bit of it. So it is safe to assume that is you want more of the resources used in state you have to give up something nationally. You cannot have both. It is also not fair to look back and say they should have gotten this wrestler over that wrestler. As an example Thielke, Sueflohn and Dieringer all came out in the same class. We all thought they were great and would have loved to have all of them. The Badgers of course did not get them all. I imagine at the time most of us would have predicted AA's for all of them and possibly some championships for Thielke and Dieringer. Would anyone seriously have predicted zero AA's for the first 2 and 3 championships and currently one of the top FS wrestlers at his weight in the world for Dieringer? Also in that same recruiting class the Badgers signed Cody Caldwell (who had beaten Dieringer) and Destin McCauley who I believe may have been the #1 overall. Of course neither of them ended up wrestling here for different reasons but my point is at the time based on that class the Dieringer miss did not appear to be as big as it was.
So if you want more Wisconsin kids who are you willing to give up? Who would you rather of had last year over DJ? I assume you would have rather had Keegan over Braxton in 2020 but at the time I did on see anyone on this forum complaining about getting the #1 overall recruit. Sure both would be great but realistically that does not happen for a college (with the exception of somehow inexplicitly Ohio St getting the top 3 recruits for 2022). None of them are from Ohio for what it is worth. Who do you want to give up for next year to get more WI kids. You giving up Rowley to get Whiting?. Did Whiting even have any interest in the UW?
Your assertion that you get more bang for the buck in state is likely true. So I will not dispute that but the bucks are not unlimited. Also the increased fan base based on WI kids is definitely a possibility but I have sat in the field house and watched teams with a lot more WI kids in the lineup vs this year with only 2 and I can say I enjoyed watching this team wrestle more than any team ever. Additionally I would say the hype surrounding Braxton committing, winning world medals, and competing in the olympic trials created more buzz than I can remember in a long time. I do not know the attendance figures but the crowds seemed pretty good this year and that was coming off covid and with a mask mandate that may have hurt the crowd some.
I am opposite of you as far WI kids vs Badgers but I may be in the minority. I root for all Badgers equally regardless of where they are from. I do follow the WI HS kids who wrestle elsewhere and wish them well (when not wrestling the Badgers) but I am way more invested in the Badger lineup. I also attend every home meet and what every road match.
As far as the kids knowing each other encouraging them to wrestle together there is something but how often are there really high end WI on the same HS team. These top kids wrestle year round all over the country and around the world so there relationships with other wrestlers are not just local. Rowley mentioned that 2 of the reasons he committed to the UW was because of his relationship with Coach Reader and his relationship with Braxton. Top end wrestlers want to train with other top end wrestlers (ie Penn St) and WI HS does not have enough of them to fill the room.
Lastly, please give some example of the years and years of WI AA's wrestling at other schools. I do not remember that many.
I can't say for sure that they need to increase their efforts toward in-state recruiting. Maybe they've already stepped it up. Maybe they just need to do it smarter. Maybe Davis went at it hard too, but lost a lot of top kids for whatever reason. All I can see are the results over several decades, and I don't think the in-state recruiting went well, long-term. I didn't see the efforts that went into it or what went on behind the scenes. I suspect some kids couldn't get in due to grades/ACT and others were steered toward other schools (like MO). Bono inherited this so I want to make it crystal clear that I'm not blaming the Badger coaching staff.
Some examples of national champions (more AAs on top of that) over the past 2 decades: Dieringer, Askren, Konrad & O'Toole. Not sure if I'm missing some. That's what comes to mind.
Quote from: harley25 on March 20, 2022, 02:53:22 PM
Do any of you find it interesting that many Wisconsin kids go west? I don't!!!
Madison is not for everyone for many many reasons. AWA wrestlers will continue to go to Mizz. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crass trained start a pipeline to Wyoming.
Madison is Madison it's not always just about the program.
Excellent point Harley. I am from Madison, lived here most of my life and call it home so going to UW would feel very natural to me but as others have said Madison is not for everyone.
I would not want to ever live in Iowa so Iowa would not be for me. I like Lincoln so I could see going to school in NE. I like the coaching staff at MN but the twin cities has too much winter for me so MN would be a no go. Also like Chicago to visit but did not enjoy it when I lived there so Northwestern is a no go. I love John Smith but no interest in Stillwater. ASU and Wyoming sound great so I could see going there. Probably pass on anything MI, not interested in Columbus or State College Either. I love TN so Little Rock or Chattanooga would be cool plus I know Kyle a little bit and I am a big fan.
If I could teleport myself back to HS and have been a good enough wrestler where anyone was interested I probably would have chosen the Naval Academy.
I would have ZERO interest in going there. Madison would be my choice over Missouri to the nth degree. I think that's the point. Everyone is different for better or for worse.
Quote from: harley25 on March 20, 2022, 02:53:22 PM
Do any of you find it interesting that many Wisconsin kids go west? I don't!!!
Madison is not for everyone for many many reasons. AWA wrestlers will continue to go to Mizz. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crass trained start a pipeline to Wyoming.
Madison is Madison it's not always just about the program.
I have nothing to add, other than that this is an extremely interesting and intelligent discussion among folks with the best interest of the sport, the athletes and the Badgers in mind. Cheers to all of you on another season in the books!!
Quote from: Army Ant on March 20, 2022, 03:36:23 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 03:21:16 PM
Quote from: Army Ant on March 20, 2022, 02:37:48 PM
Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:
1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general.
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish.
Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).
There is a fair bit to unpack here but I would like to respond.
I am sure we can agree that there is finite amount of resources (time and money) and I believe that the Badgers coaches are using every bit of it. So it is safe to assume that is you want more of the resources used in state you have to give up something nationally. You cannot have both. It is also not fair to look back and say they should have gotten this wrestler over that wrestler. As an example Thielke, Sueflohn and Dieringer all came out in the same class. We all thought they were great and would have loved to have all of them. The Badgers of course did not get them all. I imagine at the time most of us would have predicted AA's for all of them and possibly some championships for Thielke and Dieringer. Would anyone seriously have predicted zero AA's for the first 2 and 3 championships and currently one of the top FS wrestlers at his weight in the world for Dieringer? Also in that same recruiting class the Badgers signed Cody Caldwell (who had beaten Dieringer) and Destin McCauley who I believe may have been the #1 overall. Of course neither of them ended up wrestling here for different reasons but my point is at the time based on that class the Dieringer miss did not appear to be as big as it was.
So if you want more Wisconsin kids who are you willing to give up? Who would you rather of had last year over DJ? I assume you would have rather had Keegan over Braxton in 2020 but at the time I did on see anyone on this forum complaining about getting the #1 overall recruit. Sure both would be great but realistically that does not happen for a college (with the exception of somehow inexplicitly Ohio St getting the top 3 recruits for 2022). None of them are from Ohio for what it is worth. Who do you want to give up for next year to get more WI kids. You giving up Rowley to get Whiting?. Did Whiting even have any interest in the UW?
Your assertion that you get more bang for the buck in state is likely true. So I will not dispute that but the bucks are not unlimited. Also the increased fan base based on WI kids is definitely a possibility but I have sat in the field house and watched teams with a lot more WI kids in the lineup vs this year with only 2 and I can say I enjoyed watching this team wrestle more than any team ever. Additionally I would say the hype surrounding Braxton committing, winning world medals, and competing in the olympic trials created more buzz than I can remember in a long time. I do not know the attendance figures but the crowds seemed pretty good this year and that was coming off covid and with a mask mandate that may have hurt the crowd some.
I am opposite of you as far WI kids vs Badgers but I may be in the minority. I root for all Badgers equally regardless of where they are from. I do follow the WI HS kids who wrestle elsewhere and wish them well (when not wrestling the Badgers) but I am way more invested in the Badger lineup. I also attend every home meet and what every road match.
As far as the kids knowing each other encouraging them to wrestle together there is something but how often are there really high end WI on the same HS team. These top kids wrestle year round all over the country and around the world so there relationships with other wrestlers are not just local. Rowley mentioned that 2 of the reasons he committed to the UW was because of his relationship with Coach Reader and his relationship with Braxton. Top end wrestlers want to train with other top end wrestlers (ie Penn St) and WI HS does not have enough of them to fill the room.
Lastly, please give some example of the years and years of WI AA's wrestling at other schools. I do not remember that many.
I can't say for sure that they need to increase their efforts toward in-state recruiting. Maybe they've already stepped it up. Maybe they just need to do it smarter. Maybe Davis went at it hard too, but lost a lot of top kids for whatever reason. All I can see are the results over several decades, and I don't think the in-state recruiting went well, long-term. I didn't see the efforts that went into it or what went on behind the scenes. I suspect some kids couldn't get in due to grades/ACT and others were steered toward other schools (like MO). Bono inherited this so I want to make it crystal clear that I'm not blaming the Badger coaching staff.
Some examples of national champions (more AAs on top of that) over the past 2 decades: Dieringer, Askren, Konrad & O'Toole. Not sure if I'm missing some. That's what comes to mind.
That is 4 wrestlers in the past 20 years. I do not believe the UW recruited Askren very hard or at all. He was definitely considered out there and there were some questions about him. Definitely a miss but understandable. I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him. I personally at the time thought he was a clown and did not think he would amount to much on the college level. Obviously I was completely wrong.
I do not recall the situation with Cole Konrad. Someone else with have to comment if the Badgers were in on him. As far as Dieringer, we have went through that. I believer the Badgers had the #1 recruiting class in the country at the time without. Turned out to be a huge miss but at the time you could not realistically expect to add him to a class that was that good already and we all no the situation with O'Toole. Aside from that and the 2020 group I do not recall a tremendous # of AA's from Wisconsin wrestling for other schools. If anyone has the list please share. Steven Monk comes to mind but I am drawing a blank on others. Alex Polizzi and Jake Sueflohn were very good college wrestlers wrestling elsewhere but neither AAed. Beau Breske was one that got away originally but he eventually made it back to the UW but he did not AA either.
I think Bono and his crew know more about recruiting wrestling talent, no matter where it might come from, than anyone on this board. So I know enough to shut up when I know that better minds than mine are at work.
Quote from: PAUL on March 20, 2022, 03:50:41 PM
I have nothing to add, other than that this is an extremely interesting and intelligent discussion among folks with the best interest of the sport, the athletes and the Badgers in mind. Cheers to all of you on another season in the books!!
Totally agree. I really appreciate the thoughts that are going back and forth on this. I know for years (pre Bono) it always felt like the best kids weren't going to UW. From what the rumors were they weren't even being looked at. Deringer was a big miss, but I don't recall anybody to upset at the time when we were getting Theilke and McCauley. That was a monster class that didn't turn out much. Breske not coming to UW really got the anti Barry guys going. But that turned out to not be a miss. I don't remember anybody thinking Askren was going to be anything but a clown. Boy was everyone wrong, including me. Benny turned out to be a shark both in wrestling and business! There has been quite a few national champions Conrad, Deringer, Otoole, Hartung, Askren, Askren. Other really good kids like Lowney, Sufleon, Mocco, Keckeisen. A lot of other "busts" that I am not going to name that went to other schools and haven't done anything that people were pissed when UW didn't land them. But people have forgotten about those. I would love to see all the state talent stay in state. But it probably won't happen.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 02:02:22 PM
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.
For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.
Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.
There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.
What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?
Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.
There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this
POST.
Who has said they would rather have had Buchanan over Amos? I don't believe anyone said that.
2-Sure. Keegan could have gone anywhere and is an incredible talent. And? How does that mean you shouldn't make getting in-state talent a priority? What's the "revisionism" going on there? Did anyone say he wasn't a top recruit and a generational talent? His College success thus far is...pretty similar to that of Parker's but Parker was in a tougher weight this year. But fine, Hopke and Milard and Sinclair are 3 guys who ABSOLUTELY have enormous Collegiate Potential. Hopke's coming off a triple crown and the other two are at LEAST on that same level.
3-Yeah...lots goes into a decision about where to go to College. That's not new information.
4-I don't think anyone said we need to keep every single Wisconsin kid who looks like he could be a good College Wrestler...but outside of the absolute top recruits, very few Wrestlers are getting a full scholarship. But if you're asking if we should give the top kids in the state full scholarships? Sure...
5-Lastly...please look at what the kids who are coming up through Wisconsin are doing Nationally right now?
Rivera dominated the #1 ranked recruit at the Cheesehead...on his way to winning one of those tournaments. And...the Badgers got him!
I'm genuinely confused why it's such a controversial take to say that...in order for the Badgers to take that next step, they need to keep the BEST Wrestlers from Wisconsin IN WISCONSIN. Especially as we're in the midst of some of the best in-state Wrestling talent we've ever seen(For what it's worth, Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history...so with respect, I don't care if Koy Hopke Wrestles at the Ironman, we've seen him wrestle the best in the Country.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 01:24:20 PM
I will respectfully disagree. I think it is more important to be able to recruit the best talent nationally rather than in state first. If the goal as you stated is to more than occasionally "very good". In state recruiting success is helpful but not nearly as important as national success in pulling wrestlers to the program.
MN couldn't get Mark Hall and others for different reasons. We were not able to keep one of this year's best recruits who is going to Wyoming I think. Another good kid, multiple time placer doesn't want to wrestle anymore. There are too many situations to list.
If you look at the numbers below it is obvious where one should be recruiting from.......
Pennsylvania42
New Jersey33
Illinois33
Ohio22
Michigan17
California17
New York16
Minnesota14
Iowa13
Indiana11
Colorado11
Oklahoma9
Florida9
Virginia8
Missouri8
Wisconsin7
Kansas7
Georgia7
North Carolina5
Maryland4
West Virginia3
Washington3
Arizona3
North Dakota3
Montana3
Massachusetts3
Tennessee2
Utah2
Nebraska2
Connecticut2
Alaska2
Wyoming1
South Carolina1
Oregon1
New Hampshire1
(Cuba)1
Kentucky1
Idaho1
Hawaii1
Alabama1
Emphasizing in state recruiting over national recruiting puts you with the present Gopher program. They do quite well overall of keeping MN kids. When we were at the top we were drawing kids from all over the nation.
This is where this is getting just a little frustrating. If you want to just keep looking back and miss out on, again, what Askren has said will be the best class in Wisconsin History, the '24 class...fine.
Everyone's recruiting Penn...including the...what, dozen Division 1 programs from the State(a little hyperbolic, but not much).
Mark Hall wasn't a Minnesota kid, he was a Michigan kid who went to Kentucky to Wrestle one 7th grade year and then Minnesota to Wrestle two more Middle School years and then was planning on going back to Davidson, but decided not to.
But you DID keep Gable Stevenson. You kept Ness. You kept other Minnesota Wrestlers who worked out to varying degrees.
And I do not care about what Wisconsin produced in the past. I've said repeatedly on here it was hard to blame Davis as Wisconsin didn't produce much in-state talent. THAT is very clearly and very OBVIOUSLY changing...and I'm genuinely baffled as to how it's controversial to say they need to keep their top kids in state if they want to get to that next level.
You've got a 170 pounder who's ranked 4th in the Nation as a Sophomore. Seems like it'd be a good idea to keep him in state.
You have another Sophomore who just won the Triple Crown. Probably a good idea to keep him in state.
Don't know what Milard's ranked and I don't care, he wrestled a future Division 1 Wrestler who just went 3/1/1/1 VERY tough in the State Finals.
So I don't care how many All American's Wisconsin produced in 1990 in 2000 in 2010. I'm looking at who they have coming up...and it's loaded.
And nobody's saying you don't go into Penn and hope that you can steal a top recruit from Penn State or Iowa or the other dozen programs that already have deeper inroads into the Penn powerhouse programs. We can look at Bo Basset, a 7th grader who's almost certainly following his Cousins to Cornell if he doesn't go to Penn State. We can try a lot of things. Just feels like the simplest might be to keep the guys who keep winning National Titles and are ranked atop their classes at their weights...in the State they grew up in if possible.
I feel like I'm saying "hey, it's probably not a good idea to jump into that shark infested water with chum all over you," and people are disagreeing. I don't care if the sharks didn't used to be there. They're there now. And I'm not blaming anyone, I'm not revising history and saying you should have recruited Buchanan over Amos(it was never a question and I believe as the story goes Buchanan only got a partial at Wyoming...as VERY few Wrestlers get full scholarships). I'm not blaming the current coaches or the program for NOT getting the kids who are currently Wrestling at a very high level.
I didn't blame Barry Davis in the past because...again, we didn't produce a whole lot of talent.
I'm simply saying RIGHT NOW with the talent that Wisconsin is producing...a couple of those kids being within an hour or two from the Campus...THAT needs to be their priority.
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/7234411-25-wisconsin-high-school-wrestlers-you-need-to-know?msclkid=484b32f0a8af11eca9cf4ce4cc4cd411
Pff...this guy! Acting like he knows something about something...
" I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him."
I remember the excitement and "need" Gopher fans thought there was to get him.
Just shows that it is often times a crapshoot.
Quote from: Army Ant on March 20, 2022, 12:40:57 PM
We can continue to be "good" and occasionally have a "very good" year but I'm saying that if we want to go to the next level and be there consistently, we'll have to get more (we'll never get all) of the top in-state kids. As others have said, HS talent here is getting better so that's an opportunity lost if you don't take advantage of it.
Unfortunately, we have a tradition of the top Badger wrestlers being from out of state and the top in-state talent having more success out of state. Look at all the national champions that went to HS in WI - guys like O'Toole, Dieringer, Konrad, Askren, and other that have been AAs. Almost all the AAs went out of state, and all the national champions did lately.
This is a tradition that Bono inherited so I'm not blaming him. I don't even know if I can blame Davis either. To a certain extent, this is just the way it worked out. Look at it this way: lots of room for improvement in this area. Seems like the low hanging fruit that is available to get us over the hump. Other pathways will be much more difficult. I think the UW coaches would agree.
If feels like people are reading the, "we need to keep the top Wisconsin kids in-state," as some sort of indictment against the Badgers and Bono. For me, it's not. I speculated what an all-Wisconsin lineup would look like, but that wasn't meant to suggest we have to get every kid from the state or that we really screwed up by getting Amos over Buchanan(I really don't understand how anyone took that from what was written).
As for Davis...if he deserves blame or not I think is immaterial. We're talking about how we can get better right now. Barry Davis didn't have the in-state talent that Bono is looking at in the future.
Wisconsin is a little unique compared to Michigan, Penn, Iowa as they all have multiple D-1 schools. Wisconsin has had ONE since...what, 2001 when Marquette dropped their program.
So while I think it's pointless to look at how many AA's Wisconsin High School HAS produced in the past when looking forward, you also need to look at how many in-state schools you're competing with.
Keegan O'Toole is not a Badger. That's fine. Still great to see him succeed as it's proving that Wisconsin kids can come in and have success. Same with Parker, same with Buchanan. I made a lineup with them just for fun, a hypothetical lineup. Not because I think they screwed up not getting all of those kids.
And for the record...the Badgers ARE doing better. If Rivera wants to be a National Champ, I'm absolutely convinced he can and he will be. And we just got him. I watched him just dominate the #1 ranked Wrestler(I believe overall at the time) in the Cheesehead finals. He didn't get a 5 point move and then hold on. He took him down and DOMINATED him on his feet. That's the type of kid you want to keep in state.
Grayson Clark...they have him committed. THAT'S the type of kid you want to keep.
So they're moving in the right direction. IT'S A GOOD THING!!!
I'll throw one other name out there that I think the Badgers should go after who's probably not a big time recruit at the moment. That Ethan Riddle from Germantown. He looked exceptional on his feet.
So I think we're moving in the right direction...we just need to keep moving in that direction.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 08:30:03 PM
" I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him."
I remember the excitement and "need" Gopher fans thought there was to get him.
Just shows that it is often times a crapshoot.
Ok...kinda a strange takeaway from that, but what's stranger is that you're using Marcus LaVesseur as an example of a kid who I guess DIDN'T pan out?
He won his last 300 matches he wrestled...including all 155 he Wrestled in College on his way to 4 National Championships...and IIRC, he was undefeated for Minnesota during his redshirt year. Something like 15-0 or 20-0.
He decided he wanted to go to Augsburg and play Football. And he did. He played both and was a great QB. If the Badgers spend the time and energy recruiting Koy Hopke and after a semester he decides he wants to go to...Whitewater and wins 4 National Titles and sets records as a OLBer or whatever, so be it.
But I hope you're into Yoga. Would hate to see you pull something with that reach.
My point was that we would have been frustrated had we not gotten him. Never won a DI match other than open stuff. Yep, a DIII legend but DIII and DI could not be more far different than they are. I mentioned earlier that some choose other paths, my own kid did.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 20, 2022, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 08:30:03 PM
" I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him."
I remember the excitement and "need" Gopher fans thought there was to get him.
Just shows that it is often times a crapshoot.
Ok...kinda a strange takeaway from that, but what's stranger is that you're using Marcus LaVesseur as an example of a kid who I guess DIDN'T pan out?
He won his last 300 matches he wrestled...including all 155 he Wrestled in College on his way to 4 National Championships...and IIRC, he was undefeated for Minnesota during his redshirt year. Something like 15-0 or 20-0.
He decided he wanted to go to Augsburg and play Football. And he did. He played both and was a great QB. If the Badgers spend the time and energy recruiting Koy Hopke and after a semester he decides he wants to go to...Whitewater and wins 4 National Titles and sets records as a OLBer or whatever, so be it.
But I hope you're into Yoga. Would hate to see you pull something with that reach.
I think you completely misunderstood what I said about Marcus LaVesseur. I was only referring to him in reference to my personal thoughts about Askren at the time which was that I thought we was a clown and would not develop into great college wrestler. Clearly I was completely wrong. This had nothing to do with LaVesseur. He is fantastic and I have no doubt would have been capable of being a D1 champ if he decided to go in that direction. My quote is below.
I do not believe the UW recruited Askren very hard or at all. He was definitely considered out there and there were some questions about him. Definitely a miss but understandable. I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him.
I personally at the time thought he was a clown and did not think he would amount to much on the college level. Obviously I was completely wrong.
I get your point. I was just pointing out that it is a crapshoot as evidenced by Levesseur. . As you(or someone else) said not everyone was sold on Askren and he turned out to be a big timer. I think we are in agreement.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 09:35:28 PM
I get your point. I was just pointing out that it is a crapshoot as evidenced by Levesseur. . As you(or someone else) said not everyone was sold on Askren and he turned out to be a big timer. I think we are in agreement.
I was responding to another poster and you are correct my point was simply that my impression of Ben at the time was not good and I was completely wrong but it really had nothing to do with MV.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 09:15:43 PM
My point was that we would have been frustrated had we not gotten him. Never won a DI match other than open stuff. Yep, a DIII legend but DIII and DI could not be more far different than they are. I mentioned earlier that some choose other paths, my own kid did.
Sure...if only he Wrestled guys like say...Keith Gavin who won a National Title or Tyron Woodley while he was in College, I guess then we might have some idea. But as it stands the two could not be more far different. I mean...they're both Wrestling and LeVesseur proved he could beat elite Division 1 talent, but sure.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 09:22:25 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 20, 2022, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 08:30:03 PM
" I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him."
I remember the excitement and "need" Gopher fans thought there was to get him.
Just shows that it is often times a crapshoot.
Ok...kinda a strange takeaway from that, but what's stranger is that you're using Marcus LaVesseur as an example of a kid who I guess DIDN'T pan out?
He won his last 300 matches he wrestled...including all 155 he Wrestled in College on his way to 4 National Championships...and IIRC, he was undefeated for Minnesota during his redshirt year. Something like 15-0 or 20-0.
He decided he wanted to go to Augsburg and play Football. And he did. He played both and was a great QB. If the Badgers spend the time and energy recruiting Koy Hopke and after a semester he decides he wants to go to...Whitewater and wins 4 National Titles and sets records as a OLBer or whatever, so be it.
But I hope you're into Yoga. Would hate to see you pull something with that reach.
I think you completely misunderstood what I said about Marcus LaVesseur. I was only referring to him in reference to my personal thoughts about Askren at the time which was that I thought we was a clown and would not develop into great college wrestler. Clearly I was completely wrong. This had nothing to do with LaVesseur. He is fantastic and I have no doubt would have been capable of being a D1 champ if he decided to go in that direction. My quote is below.
I do not believe the UW recruited Askren very hard or at all. He was definitely considered out there and there were some questions about him. Definitely a miss but understandable. I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him. I personally at the time thought he was a clown and did not think he would amount to much on the college level. Obviously I was completely wrong.
I understand, but I wasn't replying to you. UW recruited Askren, I don't know how hard and I agree, there were a lot of questions about how his style would translate. I believe he even said as much in an interview at one point.
But MNBadger took that comment to make the point that Minnesota fans would have been so upset had they not gotten Marcus. Well...yeah, obviously. And if he didn't decide that he wanted to play Football AND Wrestle and he went to another school, it'd be a stronger point. As it stands...I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take from his decision to drop down to D3 so he could play multiple sports.
But I absolutely agree with you about Askren. There were differing opinions on him. And then he went on and had one of the best Wrestling careers ever.
You're always going to miss on some kids. Destin McCaluley who was cited earlier. He was as talented as any Wrestler in his class. But he had just wrestled 6 years for Apple Valley...which can grind a LOT of people down.
This discussion is kinda a moving target. Not with you, but with others. Pointing out that even great recruits don't always pan out...I don't know how that argues that you shouldn't recruit kids from your own state who are the best in the Country at their respective weight classes. It's just a strange point. Eric Swick didn't work out. He beat Cael IIRC when they were both in HS. Sucks, but I don't think it was a bad idea to recruit Swick.
That you don't know how a kid will end up is not an argument against trying to recruit and keep the best kids in your own state home. I think we agree on this.
I agree that you try to keep kids in state, yes. But looking at the top teams(most teams) the way to get there is recruiting nationally.
Recruiting nationally and keeping the top in-state talent are not mutually exclusive.
P
Quote from: whatever on March 20, 2022, 10:30:49 PM
Recruiting nationally and keeping the top in-state talent are not mutually exclusive.
P
Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history
Yeah and that "bag of milk" will do anything to make sure that none of them will attend UW. If he held the program in contempt before when Davis was there, he absolutely hates it now after his RTC falling out with Bono. Do not wonder why the coaching staff may well look further than the state's border for recruits as much as we want the state's top wrestlers in Madison because there's a powerful counterforce against it.
Bottom line is UW coaches are going to recruit kids who are talented and want to wrestle at Wisconsin, not those who don't.
My only point is don't assume because a wrestler had in-state success in high school they'll have it in Madison. History shows that often times it doesn't happen.
Again, having a successful wrestler from Wisconsin, someone who can win a title, will go a long way to helping to program. Maybe Barnett, who knows?
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 20, 2022, 09:58:49 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 09:22:25 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 20, 2022, 08:57:46 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on March 20, 2022, 08:30:03 PM
" I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him."
I remember the excitement and "need" Gopher fans thought there was to get him.
Just shows that it is often times a crapshoot.
Ok...kinda a strange takeaway from that, but what's stranger is that you're using Marcus LaVesseur as an example of a kid who I guess DIDN'T pan out?
He won his last 300 matches he wrestled...including all 155 he Wrestled in College on his way to 4 National Championships...and IIRC, he was undefeated for Minnesota during his redshirt year. Something like 15-0 or 20-0.
He decided he wanted to go to Augsburg and play Football. And he did. He played both and was a great QB. If the Badgers spend the time and energy recruiting Koy Hopke and after a semester he decides he wants to go to...Whitewater and wins 4 National Titles and sets records as a OLBer or whatever, so be it.
But I hope you're into Yoga. Would hate to see you pull something with that reach.
I think you completely misunderstood what I said about Marcus LaVesseur. I was only referring to him in reference to my personal thoughts about Askren at the time which was that I thought we was a clown and would not develop into great college wrestler. Clearly I was completely wrong. This had nothing to do with LaVesseur. He is fantastic and I have no doubt would have been capable of being a D1 champ if he decided to go in that direction. My quote is below.
I do not believe the UW recruited Askren very hard or at all. He was definitely considered out there and there were some questions about him. Definitely a miss but understandable. I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him. I personally at the time thought he was a clown and did not think he would amount to much on the college level. Obviously I was completely wrong.
I understand, but I wasn't replying to you. UW recruited Askren, I don't know how hard and I agree, there were a lot of questions about how his style would translate. I believe he even said as much in an interview at one point.
But MNBadger took that comment to make the point that Minnesota fans would have been so upset had they not gotten Marcus. Well...yeah, obviously. And if he didn't decide that he wanted to play Football AND Wrestle and he went to another school, it'd be a stronger point. As it stands...I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to take from his decision to drop down to D3 so he could play multiple sports.
But I absolutely agree with you about Askren. There were differing opinions on him. And then he went on and had one of the best Wrestling careers ever.
You're always going to miss on some kids. Destin McCaluley who was cited earlier. He was as talented as any Wrestler in his class. But he had just wrestled 6 years for Apple Valley...which can grind a LOT of people down.
This discussion is kinda a moving target. Not with you, but with others. Pointing out that even great recruits don't always pan out...I don't know how that argues that you shouldn't recruit kids from your own state who are the best in the Country at their respective weight classes. It's just a strange point. Eric Swick didn't work out. He beat Cael IIRC when they were both in HS. Sucks, but I don't think it was a bad idea to recruit Swick.
That you don't know how a kid will end up is not an argument against trying to recruit and keep the best kids in your own state home. I think we agree on this.
I think we do agree and this thread has been a moving target for sure. The forum can be a little dangerous because nuance and subtlety are easily lost and one typo or mis-read and the meaning can be misconstrued.
I want them all period! The best from WI and the best we can get nationwide. Hopefully they can fill the room with some under the radar kids or late bloomers because the money does not go very far and you cannot pay for much depth. I do have confidence in the coaching staff and their ability to recruit. They have assembled a really nice group for next year (9 I believe) with a good mix of headliners and depth pieces and with Rivera coming in late as icing on the cake. I think he has a very high ceiling and was a fantastic get. I had kind of lost hope when Willie posted that he did not have the grades but thankfully he was incorrect or Rivera turned it around.
Quote from: wrestlemania on March 20, 2022, 10:38:15 PM
Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history
Yeah and that "bag of milk" will do anything to make sure that none of them will attend UW. If he held the program in contempt before when Davis was there, he absolutely hates it now after his RTC falling out with Bono. Do not wonder why the coaching staff may well look further than the state's border for recruits as much as we want the state's top wrestlers in Madison because there's a powerful counterforce against it.
Maybe if you knew why they had a falling out your love affair with Bono would be over.
love to hear why....please share.
"Maybe if you knew why they had a falling out your love affair with Bono would be over. "
My love affair? Geez, I hope my wife doesn't find out. ;D,
If this is about McDonough, while I don't like how it went down the bottom line is Bono as head coach is entitled to having the people he wants on HIS coaching staff like it or not because he is in charge. If it reflects poorly on him, well then he has to live with the consequences, which in this case involves a grudge from a "legendary" vendetta holder.
If its something else, well indeed do tell.
Time to stop this one, far afield even for me.
.....I was just getting ready to make some popcorn and sit back and watch.
I too would like to hear "the scoop" of Bono v. Askren.
With that said, there are many different factors that go into a kid's decision for what school they want to attend. The fact is that you can't sign all the Wisconsin kids. As someone else mentioned Pennsylvania native Spencer Lee chose Iowa over Penn St. What the heck Cael???? Additionally did anybody predict the level of success from Buchanan, Keckeisen, and Mocco? Not all the "studs" coming out of high school pan out. In fact very few do, and that goes for every state and every program.
I want Wisconsin to be where Penn State is just as much as the next guy, but I also want to recognize and appreciate the kids do we have in the program. I have enjoyed watching them compete this season, and look forward to next season.
Quote from: harley25 on March 21, 2022, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 20, 2022, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 02:02:22 PM
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.
For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.
Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.
There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.
What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?
Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.
There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this POST.
Who has said they would rather have had Buchanan over Amos? I don't believe anyone said that.
2-Sure. Keegan could have gone anywhere and is an incredible talent. And? How does that mean you shouldn't make getting in-state talent a priority? What's the "revisionism" going on there? Did anyone say he wasn't a top recruit and a generational talent? His College success thus far is...pretty similar to that of Parker's but Parker was in a tougher weight this year. But fine, Hopke and Milard and Sinclair are 3 guys who ABSOLUTELY have enormous Collegiate Potential. Hopke's coming off a triple crown and the other two are at LEAST on that same level.
3-Yeah...lots goes into a decision about where to go to College. That's not new information.
4-I don't think anyone said we need to keep every single Wisconsin kid who looks like he could be a good College Wrestler...but outside of the absolute top recruits, very few Wrestlers are getting a full scholarship. But if you're asking if we should give the top kids in the state full scholarships? Sure...
5-Lastly...please look at what the kids who are coming up through Wisconsin are doing Nationally right now?
Rivera dominated the #1 ranked recruit at the Cheesehead...on his way to winning one of those tournaments. And...the Badgers got him!
I'm genuinely confused why it's such a controversial take to say that...in order for the Badgers to take that next step, they need to keep the BEST Wrestlers from Wisconsin IN WISCONSIN. Especially as we're in the midst of some of the best in-state Wrestling talent we've ever seen(For what it's worth, Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history...so with respect, I don't care if Koy Hopke Wrestles at the Ironman, we've seen him wrestle the best in the Country.
How do you go about keeping them in state if they don't want to wrestle for Madison? How do you keep them out of the Miss. pipeline or UNI, or Wyoming or Iowa?
People get what recruitment is, right? Getting in on these kids early is a good start. From the sound of it, UNI was in on Keckisen before the Badgers.
You sell the school. How does ANY school get ANY recruits? How did they get Rivera? Grayson Clark? Barnett?
This started off with someone saying for the Badgers to get to the next level, they need to keep the top kids in state. Now I assume that was statement was made because we're seeing Wisconsin kids thrive...and we know we've got a ton of talent coming up the pipeline.
You aggressively recruit them, you make them a priority, you offer them early...do the things that are pretty common knowledge when it comes to recruiting. I'm not sure how else to answer this.
Quote from: harley25 on March 21, 2022, 05:47:38 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 21, 2022, 04:52:47 PM
Quote from: harley25 on March 21, 2022, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 20, 2022, 07:19:22 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 20, 2022, 02:02:22 PM
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.
For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.
Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.
There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.
What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?
Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.
There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.
Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this POST.
Who has said they would rather have had Buchanan over Amos? I don't believe anyone said that.
2-Sure. Keegan could have gone anywhere and is an incredible talent. And? How does that mean you shouldn't make getting in-state talent a priority? What's the "revisionism" going on there? Did anyone say he wasn't a top recruit and a generational talent? His College success thus far is...pretty similar to that of Parker's but Parker was in a tougher weight this year. But fine, Hopke and Milard and Sinclair are 3 guys who ABSOLUTELY have enormous Collegiate Potential. Hopke's coming off a triple crown and the other two are at LEAST on that same level.
3-Yeah...lots goes into a decision about where to go to College. That's not new information.
4-I don't think anyone said we need to keep every single Wisconsin kid who looks like he could be a good College Wrestler...but outside of the absolute top recruits, very few Wrestlers are getting a full scholarship. But if you're asking if we should give the top kids in the state full scholarships? Sure...
5-Lastly...please look at what the kids who are coming up through Wisconsin are doing Nationally right now?
Rivera dominated the #1 ranked recruit at the Cheesehead...on his way to winning one of those tournaments. And...the Badgers got him!
I'm genuinely confused why it's such a controversial take to say that...in order for the Badgers to take that next step, they need to keep the BEST Wrestlers from Wisconsin IN WISCONSIN. Especially as we're in the midst of some of the best in-state Wrestling talent we've ever seen(For what it's worth, Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history...so with respect, I don't care if Koy Hopke Wrestles at the Ironman, we've seen him wrestle the best in the Country.
How do you go about keeping them in state if they don't want to wrestle for Madison? How do you keep them out of the Miss. pipeline or UNI, or Wyoming or Iowa?
People get what recruitment is, right? Getting in on these kids early is a good start. From the sound of it, UNI was in on Keckisen before the Badgers.
You sell the school. How does ANY school get ANY recruits? How did they get Rivera? Grayson Clark? Barnett?
This started off with someone saying for the Badgers to get to the next level, they need to keep the top kids in state. Now I assume that was statement was made because we're seeing Wisconsin kids thrive...and we know we've got a ton of talent coming up the pipeline.
You aggressively recruit them, you make them a priority, you offer them early...do the things that are pretty common knowledge when it comes to recruiting. I'm not sure how else to answer this.
Trust me I know we'll about the recruitment process. Been there done that with 2 of my children. My point is everyone saying you have to keep top Wisconsin talent at UW. AGAIN the UW is not for everyone. The top clubs are not pushing the Badgers, you don't find that concerning. My point is you can do all the stuff you listed but UW is not for everyone. But thanks for the recruitment lesson. By the way the recruiting part for these young athletes isn't always as glamorous as some think. Pretty stressful stuff!!
You ask a stupid question and then you get annoyed when you get a stupid answer?
Now, let me try and take notes because this type of insight is INCREDIBLE. Madison not for everyone. Wow...got it! That's only been uttered about 19 times in this thread that started with really just about the most simplistic and benign observation you could come up with. It seems like it's overwhelmingly "for" the best Football prospects from the state, but got it. Not-For-Everyone. Next you'll try and tell me something crazy like you don't always know how a kid will develop at the next level. Something that EVERYONE'S totally not agreed with already in this thread, right?
Welp...I guess you DON'T recruit the top kids in the state then? Don't try. Hey, Bono should just be a extra nice guy and help these kids move to Columbia or Cedar Falls...because Wisconsin's not for everyone, but Northern Iowa is ::)
Also never said recruiting was glamorous, I said it required the Badgers making an effort and prioritizing them...though it IS pretty fun when a school asks you to come for a visit and you get to hang out with the team, etc...and you don't need to be Cary Kolat to understand or have experienced that.
Ok though...this Horse seems to be rotting and the bone is turning to dust we've kicked it so much. In the future,
I will DEFINITELY not agree with someone who says we should try and recruit the top Wisconsin kids when they're the best in the Country because that is just...WAAAY too controversial!
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Quote from: CLC FAN on March 09, 2022, 10:30:08 AM
Just trying to pre-process my emotions lol... I feel like
5 AAs or up likely means 50 points or up means I'm feeling fantastic about the Badgers.
4 AAs could mean anything from mid 30s to mid 40s for points means I'm more happy with the direction of the program than with the outcome of this year's NCAAs and I'm still hungry to see us take a big step forward.
3 AAs.... if they are really high AAs this could have quite a sheen to it and get a lot of people excited... but I still think I'll be somewhere between meh and grrr about the program. To get to the level of that annual Top 10 status (gotta be Missouri before you can dream about being Iowa/Penn St) we need those blood round wins and multiple semifinalists/finalsits...
Anything under 3 AAs has me wishing for a baseball season to focus on.
Definitely more meh than grrr for me. Our 3 AAs all had bloodround matches that felt like toss-ups and the kids went 3-0! This definitely could have been a catastrophic NCAAs but instead it was just a tail of what might have been.
I'm still hungry to see us take that next big step forward. I think it's coming.
What I found (from 2020)
Acceptance rate/Average ACT
UW Madison: 57.2/27-32
UNI: 78.9/20-26
U of MN: 69.6/25-31
U of MI. : 26.1/31-35
Northwestern: 9.3/33-35
Stanford: 5.2/31-35
U of Iowa: 84.3/22-29
I think big oil, you pointed out in a thread many years ago that some schools make exceptions for athletes that others do not. We know it happens in football nationwide. It gives schools a way to pretend they are valuing academics while making bucks with FB and BB. I know the Gophers have lost recruits due to academics like many others.
I think that alll three DI institutions in Iowa decided to stop using the ACT for admissions(actually this year I think). This is a national trend as well.
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 22, 2022, 06:54:37 AM
What I found (from 2020)
Acceptance rate/Average ACT
UW Madison: 57.2/27-32
UNI: 78.9/20-26
U of MN: 69.6/25-31
U of MI. : 26.1/31-35
Northwestern: 9.3/33-35
Stanford: 5.2/31-35
U of Iowa: 84.3/22-29
I think big oil, you pointed out in a thread many years ago that some schools make exceptions for athletes that others do not. We know it happens in football nationwide. It gives schools a way to pretend they are valuing academics while making bucks with FB and BB. I know the Gophers have lost recruits due to academics like many others.
I think that alll three DI institutions in Iowa decided to stop using the ACT for admissions(actually this year I think). This is a national trend as well.Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
ACT have become kind of a back burner test at this point though it will come back I believe. Covid situation there.
As far as the "athlete exception" I had that discussion a while back with a Badger wrestling assistant coach at that time and he explained that to me in this way.
He said the admission standard was the same for all students regardless if they were athletes or not and at the time it was a 3.8 GPA and a 28 ACT (I think that is right). If you had really high ACT they gave you some room on the GPA but if you were under 28 it was going to be a long shot.
He said they were able to appeal to get athletes in who were below this and you could get some of them in. If the "athlete exceptions" graduated your future requests were generally looked on favorably but if they did not it became harder and harder to get the wrestlers who were below the line excepted. He said at that present time (this was a few years back) they had had some exceptions drop out and/or not graduate and that they were not able to get anyone in who fell below the standard admission standards.
I have no idea if the same rules apply for all sports, if anything has changed or what they do at the other schools but this is first hand knowledge from a Badger assistant back when Barry was the head coach.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 09:22:19 AM
As far as the "athlete exception" I had that discussion a while back with a Badger wrestling assistant coach at that time and he explained that to me in this way.
He said the admission standard was the same for all students regardless if they were athletes or not and at the time it was a 3.8 GPA and a 28 ACT (I think that is right). If you had really high ACT they gave you some room on the GPA but if you were under 28 it was going to be a long shot.
He said they were able to appeal to get athletes in who were below this and you could get some of them in. If the "athlete exceptions" graduated your future requests were generally looked on favorably but if they did not it became harder and harder to get the wrestlers who were below the line excepted. He said at that present time (this was a few years back) they had had some exceptions drop out and/or not graduate and that they were not able to get anyone in who fell below the standard admission standards.
I have no idea if the same rules apply for all sports, if anything has changed or what they do at the other schools but this is first hand knowledge from a Badger assistant back when Barry was the head coach.
That sounds about right from things directly from Bono. He has repeatedly said at some meet/greet events that there are some athletes he wants to recruit, but the UW simply will not let him and that's almost 100% related to grades/testing. I'm not saying some of of our in-state talent weren't making the grades, maybe/maybe not. But it's a factor that is in place and will remain in place. The UW is about student retention and graduation. This is why our basketball team isn't Kentucky, where attending for one year to be NBA eligible, then dropping out is an acceptable part of their student admission.
I know my experience at the UW as a wrestler comes from a long-time back, and things have almost certainly changed since then, but I can say with absolute confidence that there was a time when grades did NOT matter if the person was an athlete and the coach wanted him in school. The freshman wrestlers roomed together at the time and my roommate was functionally illiterate. He was on a full ride and he even lasted two years before he quit/forced out. Case in point, one night the head coach came knocking on our apartment door, all lathered-up and mad at my roomie. My roomie was a student in the PE course the coach was teaching and my roomie had failed an exam. While chewing on my roomie, the coach said (and I saw/heard this with my own eyes/ears), "How could you possibly fail that test?! I gave you the exam to study a day in advance!!" My roommate's embarrassed response, I kid you not, was, "Sorry coach, but I couldn't read it." My roomie lasted a whole 'nother year till he finally quit (or the school finally booted him out).
Maybe that's just the "good old days," though. I have no idea how that world operates these days.
Quote from: npope on March 22, 2022, 01:07:52 PM
I know my experience at the UW as a wrestler comes from a long-time back, and things have almost certainly changed since then, but I can say with absolute confidence that there was a time when grades did NOT matter if the person was an athlete and the coach wanted him in school. The freshman wrestlers roomed together at the time and my roommate was functionally illiterate. He was on a full ride and he even lasted two years before he quit/forced out. Case in point, one night the head coach came knocking on our apartment door, all lathered-up and mad at my roomie. My roomie was a student in the PE course the coach was teaching and my roomie had failed an exam. While chewing on my roomie, the coach said (and I saw/heard this with my own eyes/ears), "How could you possibly fail that test?! I gave you the exam to study a day in advance!!" My roommate's embarrassed response, I kid you not, was, "Sorry coach, but I couldn't read it." My roomie lasted a whole 'nother year till he finally quit (or the school finally booted him out).
Maybe that's just the "good old days," though. I have no idea how that world operates these days.
Hasn't been like that for a while, even the FB/BB can't just get any body in but far more lenient than wrestling or any other sport.
Penn state has 9 out of 10 out of state starters and they are in thee best high school wrestling state in the country. The amount of wrestlers last weekend with national and international medals was unbelievable. Recruit nationally,pound the transfer portal and fill in as needed with in state talent......until Wisconsin produces top ten p4p guys and then pay them to stay with the nil deals
Quote from: Jimmy on March 22, 2022, 03:01:19 PM
Penn state has 9 out of 10 out of state starters and they are in thee best high school wrestling state in the country. The amount of wrestlers last weekend with national and international medals was unbelievable. Recruit nationally,pound the transfer portal and fill in as needed with in state talent......until Wisconsin produces top ten p4p guys and then pay them to stay with the nil deals
And support your states RTC, now.
Check out this list of wrestlers attending the Bonobilt Prospect Camp in May. The camp features the Wisconsin wrestling staff. The list already has 26 studs on it from all over the country and Wisconsin. This is how you build.
https://rokfin.com/ranking/2334/Bonobilt-Prospect-Wrestlers-List (https://rokfin.com/ranking/2334/Bonobilt-Prospect-Wrestlers-List)
OH Beric Jordan 106 Ranked #1 in country @106, Ironman Champion, 2x Ohio State Champ, Super32 AA. 2024
OH Brogan Tucker 113 2022 Ohio 113 State Champ, Ranked #8 in the country Flo ranking, 15th Rokfin 2025
WI Colt Weiler 113 2021 WI Triple Crown, 2021 Northern Plains Greco and Freestyle Champ, 2021 Nationals U14 Greco Runner-up and Freestyle 5th, 2022 WI High School State 113lb 4th Place 2025
ID Carson Exferd 120 2x Idaho HS State Champion - Reno Worlds All American - USA Preseason National All American 2024
WI Dawson Johnson 120 2x folkstyle champ, national champ, 3x freestyle state champ, 2024
WI Danny Heiser 120 2022 WI Wrestling State Champ 2025
WI Jacob Paul Herm 120 2021 Wisconsin Triple Crown, 2021 Northern Pains Greco and Freestyle Champ, 6th place at U15 Team trials, 2021 u14 Greco National Champ, 2021 U14 Freestyle National Runner up, 2022 WIAA High School 106 Runner up 2025
IL Gylon Sims 120 3x finalist, 2x State Champ, Cadet AA 2023
WI Mason Carpenter 120 2021 folkstyle 5th place, 2021 freestyle 1st place,2022 folkstyle 2nd place 2024
OH Omar Ayoub 126 OHSAA D1 State Champion 2024
OH Ismael Ayoub 138 OHSAA D1 State finalist, Super32 5th, Regional FS and GR cadet champ, Cadet National Duals AA,NHSCA AA 2024
OH Ryan Bennett 126 Ohio D1 State Champ, Ohio D1 4th, NHSCA Finalist 2024
MO Christopher Coates 132 2xMO state champion, Cadet Fargo Freestyle Runner-up, Cadet WTT placer 2024
TN Hunter Sturgill 132 TN State Champion 2025
IL Dominic Serio 138 Freshman/ sophomore state champion, Bonobilt Big 8 champion, Fargo Qualifier 2025
WI Kellan Aure 138 WIAA state finalist 2023
IL Mason Alessio 145 IL State Runner up. 2nd cheesehead. 5th Donnybrook 2023
NE Cade Ziola 152 Nebraska Class B State Finalist 2025
IL Logan swaw 152 IL State Placer
PA Cael Weidemoyer 152 2022 PA MS State champ, 2021 Super 32 Champ, 2x Journeymen Champ, 2x Powerade Champ, 2021 Ohio TOC Champ 2026
NJ Zander Silva 160 2019 District 1st / Region 3rd / NJSQ - 2020 Super Region 4th / NJSQ - 2021(22) Escape the Rock 8th / Region 1st / District 1st / NJ States 3rd 2023
WI Owen Heiser 170 2022 WI Wrestling State Champ 2023
IL Kai Calcutt 285 3X Illinois IKWF state champ, 21' Super 32 Champ, 2x Tulsa National Champ, 21' 14U USA National Greco/Freestyle Champ
IL Dillan Johnson 285 2x State Heavy Weight 2a champ 2024
NE Tyson Terry 285 Class A State Champion in Nebraska 2025
OH Aidan Fockler 285 Ohio 2021 2nd, 2022 3rd ,Fargo dbl aa ,super 32 6th ironman 8th 2024
That is a pretty impressive group. Thank for posting.
Quote from: bigoil on March 22, 2022, 03:44:52 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on March 22, 2022, 03:01:19 PM
Penn state has 9 out of 10 out of state starters and they are in thee best high school wrestling state in the country. The amount of wrestlers last weekend with national and international medals was unbelievable. Recruit nationally,pound the transfer portal and fill in as needed with in state talent......until Wisconsin produces top ten p4p guys and then pay them to stay with the nil deals
And support your states RTC, now.
Where is Illinois RTC located? Why I ask is that if you live close to another state their maybe some cross over money, just saying. Kind of like Wisconsin kids jump some borders to go to clubs. Examples of clubs are Sebolt, Pinnacle and i would guess Izzy or another Chicago club ,at get a few kids heading over.
Quote from: Jimmy on March 22, 2022, 03:01:19 PM
Penn state has 9 out of 10 out of state starters and they are in thee best high school wrestling state in the country. The amount of wrestlers last weekend with national and international medals was unbelievable. Recruit nationally,pound the transfer portal and fill in as needed with in state talent......until Wisconsin produces top ten p4p guys and then pay them to stay with the nil deals
I don't know the Penn State lineup that well, but 3 guys off the top of my head were from Penn. Also...until we're recruiting at the level where we can lose an All American who's from Wisconsin(as they lost an AA from Minnesota) and then just reach into the transfer portal and get a kid who's a two time American in his first two years and a runner up, probably not a good idea to compare our program with theirs. So then went into the season with 4 of their projected starters from Penn. Bartlett, Edsell(Beard, returning AA) and Starocci(NC).
And that PENN STATE. When we get the most iconic coach in the sport and we build the best RTC and pay our top assistant as much as any other Head Coach in the Big Ten, and become the top program in the state, it's probably not a good idea to look at Penn State for advice on how to recruit.
And Wisconsin does and is producing top 10 pound for pound Wrestlers. I'm not sure what you mean by "and pay them with NIL deals." That's not something the College does and...and I'm really doubting Wrestlers are prioritizing NIL deals.
Quote from: Harris on March 22, 2022, 04:28:12 PM
OH Beric Jordan 106 Ranked #1 in country @106, Ironman Champion, 2x Ohio State Champ, Super32 AA. 2024
OH Brogan Tucker 113 2022 Ohio 113 State Champ, Ranked #8 in the country Flo ranking, 15th Rokfin 2025
WI Colt Weiler 113 2021 WI Triple Crown, 2021 Northern Plains Greco and Freestyle Champ, 2021 Nationals U14 Greco Runner-up and Freestyle 5th, 2022 WI High School State 113lb 4th Place 2025
ID Carson Exferd 120 2x Idaho HS State Champion - Reno Worlds All American - USA Preseason National All American 2024
WI Dawson Johnson 120 2x folkstyle champ, national champ, 3x freestyle state champ, 2024
WI Danny Heiser 120 2022 WI Wrestling State Champ 2025
WI Jacob Paul Herm 120 2021 Wisconsin Triple Crown, 2021 Northern Pains Greco and Freestyle Champ, 6th place at U15 Team trials, 2021 u14 Greco National Champ, 2021 U14 Freestyle National Runner up, 2022 WIAA High School 106 Runner up 2025
IL Gylon Sims 120 3x finalist, 2x State Champ, Cadet AA 2023
WI Mason Carpenter 120 2021 folkstyle 5th place, 2021 freestyle 1st place,2022 folkstyle 2nd place 2024
OH Omar Ayoub 126 OHSAA D1 State Champion 2024
OH Ismael Ayoub 138 OHSAA D1 State finalist, Super32 5th, Regional FS and GR cadet champ, Cadet National Duals AA,NHSCA AA 2024
OH Ryan Bennett 126 Ohio D1 State Champ, Ohio D1 4th, NHSCA Finalist 2024
MO Christopher Coates 132 2xMO state champion, Cadet Fargo Freestyle Runner-up, Cadet WTT placer 2024
TN Hunter Sturgill 132 TN State Champion 2025
IL Dominic Serio 138 Freshman/ sophomore state champion, Bonobilt Big 8 champion, Fargo Qualifier 2025
WI Kellan Aure 138 WIAA state finalist 2023
IL Mason Alessio 145 IL State Runner up. 2nd cheesehead. 5th Donnybrook 2023
NE Cade Ziola 152 Nebraska Class B State Finalist 2025
IL Logan swaw 152 IL State Placer
PA Cael Weidemoyer 152 2022 PA MS State champ, 2021 Super 32 Champ, 2x Journeymen Champ, 2x Powerade Champ, 2021 Ohio TOC Champ 2026
NJ Zander Silva 160 2019 District 1st / Region 3rd / NJSQ - 2020 Super Region 4th / NJSQ - 2021(22) Escape the Rock 8th / Region 1st / District 1st / NJ States 3rd 2023
WI Owen Heiser 170 2022 WI Wrestling State Champ 2023
IL Kai Calcutt 285 3X Illinois IKWF state champ, 21' Super 32 Champ, 2x Tulsa National Champ, 21' 14U USA National Greco/Freestyle Champ
IL Dillan Johnson 285 2x State Heavy Weight 2a champ 2024
NE Tyson Terry 285 Class A State Champion in Nebraska 2025
OH Aidan Fockler 285 Ohio 2021 2nd, 2022 3rd ,Fargo dbl aa ,super 32 6th ironman 8th 2024
Ayoub are the younger brothers of a current commit, correct?
Looks like a very good list. Aure was a kid from Wisconsin who likely isn't being highly recruited, but was impressive at the State Tournament.
Down 4-1 with maybe 30 seconds left vs Duchatea and he got the escape and then the TD as time expired.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 22, 2022, 06:28:08 PM
Quote from: Harris on March 22, 2022, 04:28:12 PM
OH Beric Jordan 106 Ranked #1 in country @106, Ironman Champion, 2x Ohio State Champ, Super32 AA. 2024
OH Brogan Tucker 113 2022 Ohio 113 State Champ, Ranked #8 in the country Flo ranking, 15th Rokfin 2025
WI Colt Weiler 113 2021 WI Triple Crown, 2021 Northern Plains Greco and Freestyle Champ, 2021 Nationals U14 Greco Runner-up and Freestyle 5th, 2022 WI High School State 113lb 4th Place 2025
ID Carson Exferd 120 2x Idaho HS State Champion - Reno Worlds All American - USA Preseason National All American 2024
WI Dawson Johnson 120 2x folkstyle champ, national champ, 3x freestyle state champ, 2024
WI Danny Heiser 120 2022 WI Wrestling State Champ 2025
WI Jacob Paul Herm 120 2021 Wisconsin Triple Crown, 2021 Northern Pains Greco and Freestyle Champ, 6th place at U15 Team trials, 2021 u14 Greco National Champ, 2021 U14 Freestyle National Runner up, 2022 WIAA High School 106 Runner up 2025
IL Gylon Sims 120 3x finalist, 2x State Champ, Cadet AA 2023
WI Mason Carpenter 120 2021 folkstyle 5th place, 2021 freestyle 1st place,2022 folkstyle 2nd place 2024
OH Omar Ayoub 126 OHSAA D1 State Champion 2024
OH Ismael Ayoub 138 OHSAA D1 State finalist, Super32 5th, Regional FS and GR cadet champ, Cadet National Duals AA,NHSCA AA 2024
OH Ryan Bennett 126 Ohio D1 State Champ, Ohio D1 4th, NHSCA Finalist 2024
MO Christopher Coates 132 2xMO state champion, Cadet Fargo Freestyle Runner-up, Cadet WTT placer 2024
TN Hunter Sturgill 132 TN State Champion 2025
IL Dominic Serio 138 Freshman/ sophomore state champion, Bonobilt Big 8 champion, Fargo Qualifier 2025
WI Kellan Aure 138 WIAA state finalist 2023
IL Mason Alessio 145 IL State Runner up. 2nd cheesehead. 5th Donnybrook 2023
NE Cade Ziola 152 Nebraska Class B State Finalist 2025
IL Logan swaw 152 IL State Placer
PA Cael Weidemoyer 152 2022 PA MS State champ, 2021 Super 32 Champ, 2x Journeymen Champ, 2x Powerade Champ, 2021 Ohio TOC Champ 2026
NJ Zander Silva 160 2019 District 1st / Region 3rd / NJSQ - 2020 Super Region 4th / NJSQ - 2021(22) Escape the Rock 8th / Region 1st / District 1st / NJ States 3rd 2023
WI Owen Heiser 170 2022 WI Wrestling State Champ 2023
IL Kai Calcutt 285 3X Illinois IKWF state champ, 21' Super 32 Champ, 2x Tulsa National Champ, 21' 14U USA National Greco/Freestyle Champ
IL Dillan Johnson 285 2x State Heavy Weight 2a champ 2024
NE Tyson Terry 285 Class A State Champion in Nebraska 2025
OH Aidan Fockler 285 Ohio 2021 2nd, 2022 3rd ,Fargo dbl aa ,super 32 6th ironman 8th 2024
Ayoub are the younger brothers of a current commit, correct?
Looks like a very good list. Aure was a kid from Wisconsin who likely isn't being highly recruited, but was impressive at the State Tournament.
Down 4-1 with maybe 30 seconds left vs Duchatea and he got the escape and then the TD as time expired.
Ismael is the commit and is a senior. The graduating class is listed incorrectly on the rokfin site. His younger brother Omar is quite good and it would be great if he followed his brother to the UW. Currently Flo #13 at his weight one spot behind Rivera.
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Does anyone know Parker Keckeisen's ACT or Grade Point Average? If they do, please don't share on this forum, it was a rhetorical question, but UNI was a SINGLE example because of ONE kid who we lost to them who's now excelling.
I also know for a fact there have been several highly recruited kids from Wisconsin who easily had the grades to get into the School who never received so much as a phone call from the Badgers(in fact...at least one got into a much more difficult school).
I also remember one of the Wisconsin Wrestlers was a class valedictorian. I don't recall if that was Keckisen or O'Toole or Buchanan.
Either way...not blaming the current Badgers coaches. Not blaming Bono for not getting Wrestlers who committed before he was even hired.
Simply said it'd be a good idea to get guys like Rivera, like Grayson Clark, like Koy Hopke, like Austin Sinclair...like Charlie Milard, the Mirasola kids.
Now can someone please tell me why the first reaction to that is a list of excuses and arguments, disagreements, pointing out outliers like Destin McCauley or whomever?
I'm clearly just not that bright, wouldn't get into Madison and I'm missing something. I know I said I'd stop, but I desperately need to know why that's an issue that ANYONE would even argue with? You'd think on a board with both Badgers fans and Wisconsin Wrestling fans people would be excited we've got some truly elite Wrestlers coming up and we'd want them to Wrestle in Wisconsin rather than the dozen other schools that has produced Wisconsin All American's in the last ~20 years.
So explain it to me like I'm a child. Why is that an objectionable statement? Is it because people think I'm attacking the Badgers? I'm not. Most of the kids Wrestling right now committed before Bono even had a job(as I've said).
Do they simply not want to set themselves up for disappointment? We're almost certainly not going to get all of them(should still make an effort though).
O'Toole had already decided on Missouri by the time Bono arrived, I believe he committed after Bono arrived but had already made his decision.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 22, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Does anyone know Parker Keckeisen's ACT or Grade Point Average? If they do, please don't share on this forum, it was a rhetorical question, but UNI was a SINGLE example because of ONE kid who we lost to them who's now excelling.
I also know for a fact there have been several highly recruited kids from Wisconsin who easily had the grades to get into the School who never received so much as a phone call from the Badgers(in fact...at least one got into a much more difficult school).
I also remember one of the Wisconsin Wrestlers was a class valedictorian. I don't recall if that was Keckisen or O'Toole or Buchanan.
Either way...not blaming the current Badgers coaches. Not blaming Bono for not getting Wrestlers who committed before he was even hired.
Simply said it'd be a good idea to get guys like Rivera, like Grayson Clark, like Koy Hopke, like Austin Sinclair...like Charlie Milard, the Mirasola kids.
Now can someone please tell me why the first reaction to that is a list of excuses and arguments, disagreements, pointing out outliers like Destin McCauley or whomever?
I'm clearly just not that bright, wouldn't get into Madison and I'm missing something. I know I said I'd stop, but I desperately need to know why that's an issue that ANYONE would even argue with? You'd think on a board with both Badgers fans and Wisconsin Wrestling fans people would be excited we've got some truly elite Wrestlers coming up and we'd want them to Wrestle in Wisconsin rather than the dozen other schools that has produced Wisconsin All American's in the last ~20 years.
So explain it to me like I'm a child. Why is that an objectionable statement? Is it because people think I'm attacking the Badgers? I'm not. Most of the kids Wrestling right now committed before Bono even had a job(as I've said).
Do they simply not want to set themselves up for disappointment? We're almost certainly not going to get all of them(should still make an effort though).
I agree with everything you are saying and would love to see the Badgers get more high level recruits from Wisconsin. Personally, I think Jon Reader is an excellent recruiter and I love his passion and energy. The entire staff and team has really turned the corner in my opinion. I am not sure what happened between Bono and Askren but when that relationship went away it makes it much harder to attract top AWA guys who are dominating the state wrestling scene right now. On the flip side, if the Badger coaching staff keeps improving and the team keeps getting better, I think the top level recruits are going to give Wisconsin a fair look regardless. 12-2 in the Big Ten, 9 qualifiers to the NCAA tournament, a Big Ten Champion, electric dual meets, and 3 AA's is a great sales pitch to any high level recruit in the state. The results speak for themselves and the recruiting will continue to get better.
Koy Hopke wrestles in the summer for Pinnacle so getting him would be a challenge considering Pinnacle has a great relationship with MN but anything is possible. Having Trevor Brandvold on staff from River Falls just makes it even harder considering Hopke is from Amery. He is the real deal and would be a HUGE get. When was the last time a high level Pinnacle wrestler came to Wisconsin? Out of all the Wisconsin high school wrestlers not committed, Hopke is on the top of my list.
I also love to see the success the program had this year when so many people doubted the team. Don't count the Badgers out. The coaching staff is building something special. Watch the following interview on Instagram and you will see a different side of Bono. He loves his guys!
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
I have not seen anyone mention Braeden Scoles on this recent string in regard to top notch WI talent. He has been near the top of my wish list of WI kids for a while. Does anyone know what his plans are? I remember a picture of him taking a visit with 2 other recruits who ended up committing. I do not remember for sure who was in the picture but it was Scoles with some combination of Clark, Rowley and Bobzien.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
I have not seen anyone mention Braeden Scoles on this recent string in regard to top notch WI talent. He has been near the top of my wish list of WI kids for a while. Does anyone know what his plans are? I remember a picture of him taking a visit with 2 other recruits who ended up committing. I do not remember for sure who was in the picture but it was Scoles with some combination of Clark, Rowley and Bobzien.
Yah. He's right up there. I just didn't think he was quite at the level of Sinclair, Whiting or Hopke. He would be a great pick up either way.
Quote from: Army Ant on March 22, 2022, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
I have not seen anyone mention Braeden Scoles on this recent string in regard to top notch WI talent. He has been near the top of my wish list of WI kids for a while. Does anyone know what his plans are? I remember a picture of him taking a visit with 2 other recruits who ended up committing. I do not remember for sure who was in the picture but it was Scoles with some combination of Clark, Rowley and Bobzien.
Yah. He's right up there. I just didn't think he was quite at the level of Sinclair, Whiting or Hopke. He would be a great pick up either way.
If you believe Flo he is right there.
Flo Weight Class Rank
Scoles - #6
Sinclair - #14
Whiting - #1
Hopke - #4
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
It's not an excuse and it is a fact. It is also a rigorous academic institution that isn't for all athletes or students. An athletic career is very stressful on academics, the hours they put into training and travel are immense.
Also, UW is a large university, that's not for every student athlete.
There are many student athletes that choose not to go to UW both from WI and not from WI but to essentially say Bono needs to do an Alvarez and put a fence around WI wrestlers, that just isn't possible. Some don't want to go to UW and others may not get in.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 10:43:56 PM
Quote from: Army Ant on March 22, 2022, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
I have not seen anyone mention Braeden Scoles on this recent string in regard to top notch WI talent. He has been near the top of my wish list of WI kids for a while. Does anyone know what his plans are? I remember a picture of him taking a visit with 2 other recruits who ended up committing. I do not remember for sure who was in the picture but it was Scoles with some combination of Clark, Rowley and Bobzien.
Yah. He's right up there. I just didn't think he was quite at the level of Sinclair, Whiting or Hopke. He would be a great pick up either way.
If you believe Flo he is right there.
Flo Weight Class Rank
Scoles - #6
Sinclair - #14
Whiting - #1
Hopke - #4
To further support, rankings from MatScouts
Scoles - #9
Whiting - #5
Sinclair - #23
Hopke - #7
Rowley - #4 ;)
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
That is a big negative from the tournament. While our 3 AAs did very well and wrestled basically to seed the rest of our team did not. They even wrestled lower than seed in most weights. UNC had 15 seed Clarke make finals, NW had DeAugstino place 4th after being seeded 10 with Yahyah, Cannon, and Davison all outplacing their seed, Princeton had 2 in the finals which was unexpected, and Penn had Composto AA out of 12 seed.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
That is a big negative from the tournament. While our 3 AAs did very well and wrestled basically to seed the rest of our team did not. They even wrestled lower than seed in most weights. UNC had 15 seed Clarke make finals, NW had DeAugstino place 4th after being seeded 10 with Yahyah, Cannon, and Davison all outplacing their seed, Princeton had 2 in the finals which was unexpected, and Penn had Composto AA out of 12 seed.
If you dig into this. Of the 6 that were not AA's, 4 wrestled to their seed, 1 wrestled above their seed and 1 wrestled below their seed.
125 - EB wrestled 1 spot below his seed but did get a bit of a bad break with how the back shook out with Arujau, McKee and EB all on the same side. They all one their placement matches and you cold make a case that they were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best guys
133 – KB wrestled to his seed
141 – JZ wrestled above his seed
149 – AG wrestled 1 spot below his seed and you could make the case that his ceiling was #2 with Yianni sitting there so there was not a ton of room for him certainly could have finished 2nd or 3rd but he ended up 4th
157 – GM wrestled to his seed – did not get a kind draw with the 6th seed on the front and an NCAA champ in this first match on the back
165 – DJ wrestled 2 spots below his seed but he was definitely injured and if healthy I think he wins the consi semi and wrestles to or above his seed
184 – CW wrestled to his seed
197 – BA wrestled to his seed
HWT – TH wrestled below his seed
Peyton Mocco valedictorian at West Allis Nathan Hale.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 22, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Does anyone know Parker Keckeisen's ACT or Grade Point Average? If they do, please don't share on this forum, it was a rhetorical question, but UNI was a SINGLE example because of ONE kid who we lost to them who's now excelling.
I also know for a fact there have been several highly recruited kids from Wisconsin who easily had the grades to get into the School who never received so much as a phone call from the Badgers(in fact...at least one got into a much more difficult school).
I also remember one of the Wisconsin Wrestlers was a class valedictorian. I don't recall if that was Keckisen or O'Toole or Buchanan.
Either way...not blaming the current Badgers coaches. Not blaming Bono for not getting Wrestlers who committed before he was even hired.
Simply said it'd be a good idea to get guys like Rivera, like Grayson Clark, like Koy Hopke, like Austin Sinclair...like Charlie Milard, the Mirasola kids.
Now can someone please tell me why the first reaction to that is a list of excuses and arguments, disagreements, pointing out outliers like Destin McCauley or whomever?
I'm clearly just not that bright, wouldn't get into Madison and I'm missing something. I know I said I'd stop, but I desperately need to know why that's an issue that ANYONE would even argue with? You'd think on a board with both Badgers fans and Wisconsin Wrestling fans people would be excited we've got some truly elite Wrestlers coming up and we'd want them to Wrestle in Wisconsin rather than the dozen other schools that has produced Wisconsin All American's in the last ~20 years.
So explain it to me like I'm a child. Why is that an objectionable statement? Is it because people think I'm attacking the Badgers? I'm not. Most of the kids Wrestling right now committed before Bono even had a job(as I've said).
Do they simply not want to set themselves up for disappointment? We're almost certainly not going to get all of them(should still make an effort though).
Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 11:04:03 PM
Quote from: MNbadger on March 19, 2022, 10:21:28 PM
It is hard to keep all in state kids. I don't know how other states do. I think there were 14 MN natives in the tournament, 6 were Gophers. Not all of them fit.
If you have O'Toole, you likely don't get Hamiti. You might want to trade now but hind sight is 20/20.
The same for Buchanan. If you had him, you'd likely not get Amos who was a kid everyone wanted. This is hard to understand when PSU just keeps stockpiling talent deeper and deeper. To be honest, I don't care for the mechanism that makes for that reality but it is what it is. Quote from: Army Ant on March 19, 2022, 08:12:44 PM
They'll only get over the hump if they can keep the top in state kids. I saw 3 WI natives take 1st, 3rd, and 3rd at NCAAs and none of them wrestled for Badgers. Bono is doing a good job but it's tough when you're up against Askren seemingly (I'm not 100% sure) steering top kids toward MO and tough admission standards for in state kids.
Next year MO will have O'Toole, Mocco, and Whiting.
Otoole, Keckeisen, Mocco and Buchanan were available before Hamiti and Amos so we missed them either way. How about Whiting? Glad we got Rivera. Hopefully we can keep Hopke too.
You also have to think about Mocco and Stephen. Especially Stephen do you really think Amos wouldn't have been pursued even with Stephen there? Amos was the number 1 recruit so either way you're going to end up mad. Because either stephen doesn't get his shot and you never see his potential or you would look at Amos as a waste of scholorship. You can't have it both ways. Would they not recruit the kent state kid at 74 if you had Mocco? He was top 10 in the country coming into this year I guarantee most coaches would and then that leaves Mocco not having a shot. College wrestling isn't a science, you have to put faith and time into kids and sometimes they go their seperate ways.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
That is a big negative from the tournament. While our 3 AAs did very well and wrestled basically to seed the rest of our team did not. They even wrestled lower than seed in most weights. UNC had 15 seed Clarke make finals, NW had DeAugstino place 4th after being seeded 10 with Yahyah, Cannon, and Davison all outplacing their seed, Princeton had 2 in the finals which was unexpected, and Penn had Composto AA out of 12 seed.
If you dig into this. Of the 6 that were not AA's, 4 wrestled to their seed, 1 wrestled above their seed and 1 wrestled below their seed.
125 - EB wrestled 1 spot below his seed but did get a bit of a bad break with how the back shook out with Arujau, McKee and EB all on the same side. They all one their placement matches and you cold make a case that they were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best guys
133 – KB wrestled to his seed
141 – JZ wrestled above his seed
149 – AG wrestled 1 spot below his seed and you could make the case that his ceiling was #2 with Yianni sitting there so there was not a ton of room for him certainly could have finished 2nd or 3rd but he ended up 4th
157 – GM wrestled to his seed – did not get a kind draw with the 6th seed on the front and an NCAA champ in this first match on the back
165 – DJ wrestled 2 spots below his seed but he was definitely injured and if healthy I think he wins the consi semi and wrestles to or above his seed
184 – CW wrestled to his seed
197 – BA wrestled to his seed
HWT – TH wrestled below his seed
So basically every one below their seeds which is exactly the problem. Zargo is the only one who beat his seed and he only beat the #22 guy. Not a negative on him as he wrestled Matthews extremely tough.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 12:32:21 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
That is a big negative from the tournament. While our 3 AAs did very well and wrestled basically to seed the rest of our team did not. They even wrestled lower than seed in most weights. UNC had 15 seed Clarke make finals, NW had DeAugstino place 4th after being seeded 10 with Yahyah, Cannon, and Davison all outplacing their seed, Princeton had 2 in the finals which was unexpected, and Penn had Composto AA out of 12 seed.
If you dig into this. Of the 6 that were not AA's, 4 wrestled to their seed, 1 wrestled above their seed and 1 wrestled below their seed.
125 - EB wrestled 1 spot below his seed but did get a bit of a bad break with how the back shook out with Arujau, McKee and EB all on the same side. They all one their placement matches and you cold make a case that they were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best guys
133 – KB wrestled to his seed
141 – JZ wrestled above his seed
149 – AG wrestled 1 spot below his seed and you could make the case that his ceiling was #2 with Yianni sitting there so there was not a ton of room for him certainly could have finished 2nd or 3rd but he ended up 4th
157 – GM wrestled to his seed – did not get a kind draw with the 6th seed on the front and an NCAA champ in this first match on the back
165 – DJ wrestled 2 spots below his seed but he was definitely injured and if healthy I think he wins the consi semi and wrestles to or above his seed
184 – CW wrestled to his seed
197 – BA wrestled to his seed
HWT – TH wrestled below his seed
So basically every one below their seeds which is exactly the problem. Zargo is the only one who beat his seed and he only beat the #22 guy. Not a negative on him as he wrestled Matthews extremely tough.
No Burwick, Model, Weiler and Amos wrestled to their seed not below their seed.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 12:32:21 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
That is a big negative from the tournament. While our 3 AAs did very well and wrestled basically to seed the rest of our team did not. They even wrestled lower than seed in most weights. UNC had 15 seed Clarke make finals, NW had DeAugstino place 4th after being seeded 10 with Yahyah, Cannon, and Davison all outplacing their seed, Princeton had 2 in the finals which was unexpected, and Penn had Composto AA out of 12 seed.
If you dig into this. Of the 6 that were not AA's, 4 wrestled to their seed, 1 wrestled above their seed and 1 wrestled below their seed.
125 - EB wrestled 1 spot below his seed but did get a bit of a bad break with how the back shook out with Arujau, McKee and EB all on the same side. They all one their placement matches and you cold make a case that they were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best guys
133 – KB wrestled to his seed
141 – JZ wrestled above his seed
149 – AG wrestled 1 spot below his seed and you could make the case that his ceiling was #2 with Yianni sitting there so there was not a ton of room for him certainly could have finished 2nd or 3rd but he ended up 4th
157 – GM wrestled to his seed – did not get a kind draw with the 6th seed on the front and an NCAA champ in this first match on the back
165 – DJ wrestled 2 spots below his seed but he was definitely injured and if healthy I think he wins the consi semi and wrestles to or above his seed
184 – CW wrestled to his seed
197 – BA wrestled to his seed
HWT – TH wrestled below his seed
So basically every one below their seeds which is exactly the problem. Zargo is the only one who beat his seed and he only beat the #22 guy. Not a negative on him as he wrestled Matthews extremely tough.
No Burwick, Model, Weiler and Amos wrestled to their seed not below their seed.
1 out of 9 wrestlers wrestled marginally above their seed.
I am one to complain. I admit it.
Did I want to see the Badgers wrestle above their heads and win some matches they didn't, yep. All day.
Amos was in on a leg and had it in the air for what seemed like hours. Couldn't finish that. Probably the difference in the match. Same with the match with Caffey. Got in deep and couldn't finish. He was very close and the margin is razor thin.
Zargo, IMO, was one choke away from winning a match that changes his position.
My point is that every match has a very small margin for error and they came up on the wrong side. It could easily have gone the other way.
We tend to dwell on the negatives on the forum, but we had a Big Ten Champion in Gomez. He's so fun to watch. Because he's a big move guy there are times that things are not gonna go his way. I wish he would've just finished a single vs. Andonian because then it's him in the finals, but he's gonna do big things because that's who he is.
Hamiti is the freshman of the year. He's a super talent and a lightning rod to build around. Zargo is a competitor that everyone can get behind. Barnett is gonna give you an ulcer, but he's gonna do something crazy that works out most of the time. The kid from Stoughton is gonna be similar.
There's so many reasons to like this team. What they need is for us to support them and help them build momentum.
Quote from: Harris on March 22, 2022, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 22, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Does anyone know Parker Keckeisen's ACT or Grade Point Average? If they do, please don't share on this forum, it was a rhetorical question, but UNI was a SINGLE example because of ONE kid who we lost to them who's now excelling.
I also know for a fact there have been several highly recruited kids from Wisconsin who easily had the grades to get into the School who never received so much as a phone call from the Badgers(in fact...at least one got into a much more difficult school).
I also remember one of the Wisconsin Wrestlers was a class valedictorian. I don't recall if that was Keckisen or O'Toole or Buchanan.
Either way...not blaming the current Badgers coaches. Not blaming Bono for not getting Wrestlers who committed before he was even hired.
Simply said it'd be a good idea to get guys like Rivera, like Grayson Clark, like Koy Hopke, like Austin Sinclair...like Charlie Milard, the Mirasola kids.
Now can someone please tell me why the first reaction to that is a list of excuses and arguments, disagreements, pointing out outliers like Destin McCauley or whomever?
I'm clearly just not that bright, wouldn't get into Madison and I'm missing something. I know I said I'd stop, but I desperately need to know why that's an issue that ANYONE would even argue with? You'd think on a board with both Badgers fans and Wisconsin Wrestling fans people would be excited we've got some truly elite Wrestlers coming up and we'd want them to Wrestle in Wisconsin rather than the dozen other schools that has produced Wisconsin All American's in the last ~20 years.
So explain it to me like I'm a child. Why is that an objectionable statement? Is it because people think I'm attacking the Badgers? I'm not. Most of the kids Wrestling right now committed before Bono even had a job(as I've said).
Do they simply not want to set themselves up for disappointment? We're almost certainly not going to get all of them(should still make an effort though).
I agree with everything you are saying and would love to see the Badgers get more high level recruits from Wisconsin. Personally, I think Jon Reader is an excellent recruiter and I love his passion and energy. The entire staff and team has really turned the corner in my opinion. I am not sure what happened between Bono and Askren but when that relationship went away it makes it much harder to attract top AWA guys who are dominating the state wrestling scene right now. On the flip side, if the Badger coaching staff keeps improving and the team keeps getting better, I think the top level recruits are going to give Wisconsin a fair look regardless. 12-2 in the Big Ten, 9 qualifiers to the NCAA tournament, a Big Ten Champion, electric dual meets, and 3 AA's is a great sales pitch to any high level recruit in the state. The results speak for themselves and the recruiting will continue to get better.
Koy Hopke wrestles in the summer for Pinnacle so getting him would be a challenge considering Pinnacle has a great relationship with MN but anything is possible. Having Trevor Brandvold on staff from River Falls just makes it even harder considering Hopke is from Amery. He is the real deal and would be a HUGE get. When was the last time a high level Pinnacle wrestler came to Wisconsin? Out of all the Wisconsin high school wrestlers not committed, Hopke is on the top of my list.
I also love to see the success the program had this year when so many people doubted the team. Don't count the Badgers out. The coaching staff is building something special. Watch the following interview on Instagram and you will see a different side of Bono. He loves his guys!
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
It was announced today on twitter that Koy Hopke is coming to the prospect camp! It was also announced Brogan Tucker from OH is coming as well. Let's go!
Even more important Trent is officially back. He says his redemption tour starts now and wants to bring a trophy to Madison, so guessing that means no redshirts.
Quote from: Harris on March 23, 2022, 01:10:16 PM
It was announced today on twitter that Koy Hopke is coming to the prospect camp! It was also announced Brogan Tucker from OH is coming as well. Let's go!
Wow that is great news! For those of you who know Koy Hopke better than I do. Do you think he projects as a college 197 or HWT?
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 01:35:16 PM
Quote from: Harris on March 23, 2022, 01:10:16 PM
It was announced today on twitter that Koy Hopke is coming to the prospect camp! It was also announced Brogan Tucker from OH is coming as well. Let's go!
Wow that is great news! For those of you who know Koy Hopke better than I do. Do you think he projects as a college 197 or HWT?
Geez here we go beating the horse again. After Fargo last year koy expressed his interest in being a HWT.
Do you think a kid that is wrestling 220 as a sophomore is going to cut down to 197 in 3 years? Certainly can be done but I dont think he has any interest in cutting that kind of weight in 3 years but who knows.
Quote from: littleguy301 on March 23, 2022, 02:23:52 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 01:35:16 PM
Quote from: Harris on March 23, 2022, 01:10:16 PM
It was announced today on twitter that Koy Hopke is coming to the prospect camp! It was also announced Brogan Tucker from OH is coming as well. Let's go!
Wow that is great news! For those of you who know Koy Hopke better than I do. Do you think he projects as a college 197 or HWT?
Geez here we go beating the horse again. After Fargo last year koy expressed his interest in being a HWT.
Do you think a kid that is wrestling 220 as a sophomore is going to cut down to 197 in 3 years? Certainly can be done but I dont think he has any interest in cutting that kind of weight in 3 years but who knows.
Sorry I did not know that this had been discussed.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 01:15:48 PM
Even more important Trent is officially back. He says his redemption tour starts now and wants to bring a trophy to Madison, so guessing that means no redshirts.
Trent also said in his tweet: "this team is special..The culture and brotherhood of this team makes it hard to leave"
Pretty great compliment to the culture Bono is building considering Trent was a Davis recruit!!
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 12:44:14 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 12:39:11 PM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 12:32:21 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 23, 2022, 09:56:38 AM
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2022, 11:29:48 PM
Stating Academics is a reason why UW isn't getting WI recruits is not only a weak, weak excuse but it is an insult to insinuate that those who elect not to go to UW that they are not smart enough.
Stop drinking the badger kool-aid and accept the fact that not everyone wants to go the Madison. That is fine and I hope they succeed wherever they go.
Recruitment overall has actually been great.
Now tell me why WI ranked #60 in the tourney in placement related to seeding while UNC, NW, Princeton, Penn, and Cornell were all in the top 15? Seems like all those tough academic schools are getting the best out of their recruits.
What NW did this year to get all 10 in the tourney and finish top 6 overall while doing it within one year of losing a top recruit and assistant coaches is simply amazing. Oh, and NW did it without getting a single point in the tourney from a transfer. NW has a 9% acceptance rate and 33-35 ACT range by the way.
That is a big negative from the tournament. While our 3 AAs did very well and wrestled basically to seed the rest of our team did not. They even wrestled lower than seed in most weights. UNC had 15 seed Clarke make finals, NW had DeAugstino place 4th after being seeded 10 with Yahyah, Cannon, and Davison all outplacing their seed, Princeton had 2 in the finals which was unexpected, and Penn had Composto AA out of 12 seed.
If you dig into this. Of the 6 that were not AA's, 4 wrestled to their seed, 1 wrestled above their seed and 1 wrestled below their seed.
125 - EB wrestled 1 spot below his seed but did get a bit of a bad break with how the back shook out with Arujau, McKee and EB all on the same side. They all one their placement matches and you cold make a case that they were the 3rd, 4th, and 5th best guys
133 – KB wrestled to his seed
141 – JZ wrestled above his seed
149 – AG wrestled 1 spot below his seed and you could make the case that his ceiling was #2 with Yianni sitting there so there was not a ton of room for him certainly could have finished 2nd or 3rd but he ended up 4th
157 – GM wrestled to his seed – did not get a kind draw with the 6th seed on the front and an NCAA champ in this first match on the back
165 – DJ wrestled 2 spots below his seed but he was definitely injured and if healthy I think he wins the consi semi and wrestles to or above his seed
184 – CW wrestled to his seed
197 – BA wrestled to his seed
HWT – TH wrestled below his seed
So basically every one below their seeds which is exactly the problem. Zargo is the only one who beat his seed and he only beat the #22 guy. Not a negative on him as he wrestled Matthews extremely tough.
No Burwick, Model, Weiler and Amos wrestled to their seed not below their seed.
1 out of 9 wrestlers wrestled marginally above their seed.
That is correct and I was actually mistaken Trent wrestled to his seed (my son corrected me). ;D
Thought I read PSU underperformed to seed as well.
They had only one wrestler marginally outperform seed as well, Brooks, only by one spot, slackers.
Quote from: bigoil on March 22, 2022, 07:37:49 PM
O'Toole had already decided on Missouri by the time Bono arrived, I believe he committed after Bono arrived but had already made his decision.
Yes...I believe I pointed that out earlier. So did Parker before Bono got the job. I've also repeatedly said I don't think Bono is to blame for not getting the recruits that are currently exceling elsewhere AND that I think he's off to an outstanding start on recruiting those in-state kids. Rivera -who it was speculated could not get into UW when it appeared he was going to Iowa as he was apparently one of their top targets...which isn't surprising considering what he did to Nate Jesuroga, a Cadet World place winner and top 10 P4P recruit in this years class- Is an outstanding get.
Grayson Clark is another.
There's no blame being assigned...there's no delusions of grandeur. I'm not just saying if a kid wins a state title or 2 in the State, that in and of itself means the Badgers should be going after him. The best in the State though?
Quote from: Harris on March 22, 2022, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 22, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Does anyone know Parker Keckeisen's ACT or Grade Point Average? If they do, please don't share on this forum, it was a rhetorical question, but UNI was a SINGLE example because of ONE kid who we lost to them who's now excelling.
I also know for a fact there have been several highly recruited kids from Wisconsin who easily had the grades to get into the School who never received so much as a phone call from the Badgers(in fact...at least one got into a much more difficult school).
I also remember one of the Wisconsin Wrestlers was a class valedictorian. I don't recall if that was Keckisen or O'Toole or Buchanan.
Either way...not blaming the current Badgers coaches. Not blaming Bono for not getting Wrestlers who committed before he was even hired.
Simply said it'd be a good idea to get guys like Rivera, like Grayson Clark, like Koy Hopke, like Austin Sinclair...like Charlie Milard, the Mirasola kids.
Now can someone please tell me why the first reaction to that is a list of excuses and arguments, disagreements, pointing out outliers like Destin McCauley or whomever?
I'm clearly just not that bright, wouldn't get into Madison and I'm missing something. I know I said I'd stop, but I desperately need to know why that's an issue that ANYONE would even argue with? You'd think on a board with both Badgers fans and Wisconsin Wrestling fans people would be excited we've got some truly elite Wrestlers coming up and we'd want them to Wrestle in Wisconsin rather than the dozen other schools that has produced Wisconsin All American's in the last ~20 years.
So explain it to me like I'm a child. Why is that an objectionable statement? Is it because people think I'm attacking the Badgers? I'm not. Most of the kids Wrestling right now committed before Bono even had a job(as I've said).
Do they simply not want to set themselves up for disappointment? We're almost certainly not going to get all of them(should still make an effort though).
I agree with everything you are saying and would love to see the Badgers get more high level recruits from Wisconsin. Personally, I think Jon Reader is an excellent recruiter and I love his passion and energy. The entire staff and team has really turned the corner in my opinion. I am not sure what happened between Bono and Askren but when that relationship went away it makes it much harder to attract top AWA guys who are dominating the state wrestling scene right now. On the flip side, if the Badger coaching staff keeps improving and the team keeps getting better, I think the top level recruits are going to give Wisconsin a fair look regardless. 12-2 in the Big Ten, 9 qualifiers to the NCAA tournament, a Big Ten Champion, electric dual meets, and 3 AA's is a great sales pitch to any high level recruit in the state. The results speak for themselves and the recruiting will continue to get better.
Koy Hopke wrestles in the summer for Pinnacle so getting him would be a challenge considering Pinnacle has a great relationship with MN but anything is possible. Having Trevor Brandvold on staff from River Falls just makes it even harder considering Hopke is from Amery. He is the real deal and would be a HUGE get. When was the last time a high level Pinnacle wrestler came to Wisconsin? Out of all the Wisconsin high school wrestlers not committed, Hopke is on the top of my list.
I also love to see the success the program had this year when so many people doubted the team. Don't count the Badgers out. The coaching staff is building something special. Watch the following interview on Instagram and you will see a different side of Bono. He loves his guys!
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
They definitely seem like they're building momentum. I don't know how much more difficult Wrestling for Pinnaccle, but I am ignorant about that situation...as I am frankly about most of these kids situations...which is why I'm not demanding or saying if they lose Hopke to Minnesota it'll be a great failure. Simply...it'd be a massive coup for the program. And at some point, you have to break through and steal a kid. Apple Valley kids often went to Minnesota. Now, again, even though he didn't work out, we did get Destin McCauley and another light weight about 10 years ago who had success at Wisconsin.
I'm not sure I completely buy the club connection. These are individuals. And as people love to point out, Madison isn't for everyone. But, for a lot of kids in Wisconsin, it's the school they grew up rooting for and are more likely to feel a connection with.
And I would agree, just by virtue of him being a future Heavyweight, he has to be the top priority. Probably worthy of a full scholarship...which again, is rare.
The only addition I'd make to the staff would be to see if they could add a 4th coach from in the state who may have closer ties to the state...and Branvold would seem to be a great fit, but again, I have no idea what happened there.
These are the types of things that build on themselves. These kids Wrestle together. You have a group of Soph in HS and you get in on them now and you get one, and now you have a friend recruiting another friend, talking about shared goals for the team. You get guys who are competing Internationally like one would presume Hopke would, like Amos would, Hamiti. Those things help out the RTC...which we do need to support.
Quote from: Harris on March 23, 2022, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: Harris on March 22, 2022, 07:43:21 PM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 22, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Quote from: bigoil on March 21, 2022, 09:18:13 PM
University of Northern Iowa admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 79%; ACT Composite: 20–26.
Wisconsin admissions is selective with an acceptance rate of 54%. Students that get into Wisconsin have an average ACT score of 27-32
NOT EVERY STUDENT ATHLETE IS GETTING INTO UW.
Does anyone know Parker Keckeisen's ACT or Grade Point Average? If they do, please don't share on this forum, it was a rhetorical question, but UNI was a SINGLE example because of ONE kid who we lost to them who's now excelling.
I also know for a fact there have been several highly recruited kids from Wisconsin who easily had the grades to get into the School who never received so much as a phone call from the Badgers(in fact...at least one got into a much more difficult school).
I also remember one of the Wisconsin Wrestlers was a class valedictorian. I don't recall if that was Keckisen or O'Toole or Buchanan.
Either way...not blaming the current Badgers coaches. Not blaming Bono for not getting Wrestlers who committed before he was even hired.
Simply said it'd be a good idea to get guys like Rivera, like Grayson Clark, like Koy Hopke, like Austin Sinclair...like Charlie Milard, the Mirasola kids.
Now can someone please tell me why the first reaction to that is a list of excuses and arguments, disagreements, pointing out outliers like Destin McCauley or whomever?
I'm clearly just not that bright, wouldn't get into Madison and I'm missing something. I know I said I'd stop, but I desperately need to know why that's an issue that ANYONE would even argue with? You'd think on a board with both Badgers fans and Wisconsin Wrestling fans people would be excited we've got some truly elite Wrestlers coming up and we'd want them to Wrestle in Wisconsin rather than the dozen other schools that has produced Wisconsin All American's in the last ~20 years.
So explain it to me like I'm a child. Why is that an objectionable statement? Is it because people think I'm attacking the Badgers? I'm not. Most of the kids Wrestling right now committed before Bono even had a job(as I've said).
Do they simply not want to set themselves up for disappointment? We're almost certainly not going to get all of them(should still make an effort though).
I agree with everything you are saying and would love to see the Badgers get more high level recruits from Wisconsin. Personally, I think Jon Reader is an excellent recruiter and I love his passion and energy. The entire staff and team has really turned the corner in my opinion. I am not sure what happened between Bono and Askren but when that relationship went away it makes it much harder to attract top AWA guys who are dominating the state wrestling scene right now. On the flip side, if the Badger coaching staff keeps improving and the team keeps getting better, I think the top level recruits are going to give Wisconsin a fair look regardless. 12-2 in the Big Ten, 9 qualifiers to the NCAA tournament, a Big Ten Champion, electric dual meets, and 3 AA's is a great sales pitch to any high level recruit in the state. The results speak for themselves and the recruiting will continue to get better.
Koy Hopke wrestles in the summer for Pinnacle so getting him would be a challenge considering Pinnacle has a great relationship with MN but anything is possible. Having Trevor Brandvold on staff from River Falls just makes it even harder considering Hopke is from Amery. He is the real deal and would be a HUGE get. When was the last time a high level Pinnacle wrestler came to Wisconsin? Out of all the Wisconsin high school wrestlers not committed, Hopke is on the top of my list.
I also love to see the success the program had this year when so many people doubted the team. Don't count the Badgers out. The coaching staff is building something special. Watch the following interview on Instagram and you will see a different side of Bono. He loves his guys!
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbRDn6yrw6k/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
It was announced today on twitter that Koy Hopke is coming to the prospect camp! It was also announced Brogan Tucker from OH is coming as well. Let's go!
Awesome. You can only imagine what he's going to look like and develop into 3-4 years into the future. He could be a massively important recruit for Bono. Tucker is also obviously a stud and looks like he'll end up being one of the top recruits in 3 years.
If Hopke choses to go elsewhere because "Madison isn't for everyone," sobeit. It's not the end of the world.
If he doesn't go to Wisconsin because Wisconsin wasn't the first College in on him or ONE of the few Schools in on him and offering, then that's a problem. I would assume that's not an issue whoever...namely because it would appear Bono is doing a good job and his fair share of due diligence.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 10:43:56 PM
Quote from: Army Ant on March 22, 2022, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
I have not seen anyone mention Braeden Scoles on this recent string in regard to top notch WI talent. He has been near the top of my wish list of WI kids for a while. Does anyone know what his plans are? I remember a picture of him taking a visit with 2 other recruits who ended up committing. I do not remember for sure who was in the picture but it was Scoles with some combination of Clark, Rowley and Bobzien.
Yah. He's right up there. I just didn't think he was quite at the level of Sinclair, Whiting or Hopke. He would be a great pick up either way.
If you believe Flo he is right there.
Flo Weight Class Rank
Scoles - #6
Sinclair - #14
Whiting - #1
Hopke - #4
I'm sure there are a lot of other kids that should be a part of this discussion. I was focused more on 3 kids D-1 from the Soph class...also mentioned the Mirasola's, but HWTs are tough to find(Hopke), Sinclair is ranked 4th in the Country as a Soph and I was just particularly impressed from the 152 pound kid from Homestead. 3 kids who may be at a weights we need to fill as we've got Rivera and Clark(just from Wisconsin) coming in.
Quote from: Army Ant on March 22, 2022, 10:03:01 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 22, 2022, 08:33:46 PM
I have not seen anyone mention Braeden Scoles on this recent string in regard to top notch WI talent. He has been near the top of my wish list of WI kids for a while. Does anyone know what his plans are? I remember a picture of him taking a visit with 2 other recruits who ended up committing. I do not remember for sure who was in the picture but it was Scoles with some combination of Clark, Rowley and Bobzien.
Yah. He's right up there. I just didn't think he was quite at the level of Sinclair, Whiting or Hopke. He would be a great pick up either way.
You haven't watched Scoles in the past 3-4 years I take it.
Quote from: wrastle63 on March 23, 2022, 01:15:48 PM
Even more important Trent is officially back. He says his redemption tour starts now and wants to bring a trophy to Madison, so guessing that means no redshirts.
+1
! (ftp://!)
I hear rumblings the Gophers might get Hopke.....
Maybe not the same air of the studs on this list but has any one ever thought of Ian Smith from northwestern. 2 time runner up to Whitting as a freshman and sophomore at 182. Now that Whitting, Ramberg are gone he could be a 2 timer at the upper weights. Has some out of season success also. Might be one to get ok n the contact list also if football isnt first in his mind.
Quote from: MNbadger on March 24, 2022, 06:23:39 PM
I hear rumblings the Gophers might get Hopke.....
Well......Hopke is not eligible to be recruited until June 15th so.........but I totally understand with Hopkes tie with Pinnacle and being so close to Minnesota it could be a no brainer. Family is right there also.
Quote from: Narwhal on March 24, 2022, 10:25:21 AM
Ohio State wrestling can't match Big Ten success, take 13th at NCAA Championships https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2022/3/23/22990701/ohio-state-wrestling-buckeyes-cant-match-big-ten-success-take-13th-at-ncaa-championships-osu-2022
I was just reading about that class OSU had where they got 4 4-time state Champs from a small school in Ohio.
Logan and Hunter Stieber, Cam Tessari...and arguably the best HS Wrestler in the last 20 years at the time, Chris Phillips. A 171 who came into the Ironman and beat 3 of the top 171 pounders(including the #1 ranked kid) easily on his way to a title.
He had one loss at the Ironman I believe his Soph year to Ed Ruth who was a Sr...which he later avenged. Hard to imagine that Hunter Stieber was not the #1 recruit on his HS team despite having just 1 loss...
Quote from: MNbadger on March 24, 2022, 06:23:39 PM
I hear rumblings the Gophers might get Hopke.....
LOL...of course. Should probably wait until it's legal to recruit him, but I'm shocked the Minnesota fan would be hearing such rumblings!
Quote from: littleguy301 on March 24, 2022, 08:18:19 PM
Maybe not the same air of the studs on this list but has any one ever thought of Ian Smith from northwestern. 2 time runner up to Whitting as a freshman and sophomore at 182. Now that Whitting, Ramberg are gone he could be a 2 timer at the upper weights. Has some out of season success also. Might be one to get ok n the contact list also if football isnt first in his mind.
Has he had success in Greco? Watching him Wrestle, he seemed to actually work for double overs and I didn't see him shoot much(I only saw a couple matches so it's not an indictment at all).
He's got two years though...two time finalist at those weights is impressive to say the least.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 25, 2022, 10:57:13 AM
Quote from: Narwhal on March 24, 2022, 10:25:21 AM
Ohio State wrestling can't match Big Ten success, take 13th at NCAA Championships https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2022/3/23/22990701/ohio-state-wrestling-buckeyes-cant-match-big-ten-success-take-13th-at-ncaa-championships-osu-2022
I was just reading about that class OSU had where they got 4 4-time state Champs from a small school in Ohio.
Logan and Hunter Stieber, Cam Tessari...and arguably the best HS Wrestler in the last 20 years at the time, Chris Phillips. A 171 who came into the Ironman and beat 3 of the top 171 pounders(including the #1 ranked kid) easily on his way to a title.
He had one loss at the Ironman I believe his Soph year to Ed Ruth who was a Sr...which he later avenged. Hard to imagine that Hunter Stieber was not the #1 recruit on his HS team despite having just 1 loss...
Quite the wide variety of results from this group for all kinds of reasons.
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 25, 2022, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 25, 2022, 10:57:13 AM
Quote from: Narwhal on March 24, 2022, 10:25:21 AM
Ohio State wrestling can't match Big Ten success, take 13th at NCAA Championships https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2022/3/23/22990701/ohio-state-wrestling-buckeyes-cant-match-big-ten-success-take-13th-at-ncaa-championships-osu-2022
I was just reading about that class OSU had where they got 4 4-time state Champs from a small school in Ohio.
Logan and Hunter Stieber, Cam Tessari...and arguably the best HS Wrestler in the last 20 years at the time, Chris Phillips. A 171 who came into the Ironman and beat 3 of the top 171 pounders(including the #1 ranked kid) easily on his way to a title.
He had one loss at the Ironman I believe his Soph year to Ed Ruth who was a Sr...which he later avenged. Hard to imagine that Hunter Stieber was not the #1 recruit on his HS team despite having just 1 loss...
Quite the wide variety of results from this group for all kinds of reasons.
Yup. Hard to complain about any school that provides a 4X National Champ for you...and hard to blame a kid who decides he just doesn't want to Wrestle anymore. I respect the decision to not Wrestle instead of Wrestle without being fully committed.
As a fan, I selfishly wanted to watch...one of the greatest HS Wrestlers ever...go back and forth with Ed Ruth, be on those OSU teams that were contending, and I believe won a title over the time he'd have been there. But from what I heard, he wanted to focus on school and just be a normal kid. I THINK he graduated with a degree in Finance and worked at a bank.
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 29, 2022, 11:05:22 PM
Quote from: vsmf2010 on March 25, 2022, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 25, 2022, 10:57:13 AM
Quote from: Narwhal on March 24, 2022, 10:25:21 AM
Ohio State wrestling can't match Big Ten success, take 13th at NCAA Championships https://www.landgrantholyland.com/2022/3/23/22990701/ohio-state-wrestling-buckeyes-cant-match-big-ten-success-take-13th-at-ncaa-championships-osu-2022
I was just reading about that class OSU had where they got 4 4-time state Champs from a small school in Ohio.
Logan and Hunter Stieber, Cam Tessari...and arguably the best HS Wrestler in the last 20 years at the time, Chris Phillips. A 171 who came into the Ironman and beat 3 of the top 171 pounders(including the #1 ranked kid) easily on his way to a title.
He had one loss at the Ironman I believe his Soph year to Ed Ruth who was a Sr...which he later avenged. Hard to imagine that Hunter Stieber was not the #1 recruit on his HS team despite having just 1 loss...
Quite the wide variety of results from this group for all kinds of reasons.
Yup. Hard to complain about any school that provides a 4X National Champ for you...and hard to blame a kid who decides he just doesn't want to Wrestle anymore. I respect the decision to not Wrestle instead of Wrestle without being fully committed.
As a fan, I selfishly wanted to watch...one of the greatest HS Wrestlers ever...go back and forth with Ed Ruth, be on those OSU teams that were contending, and I believe won a title over the time he'd have been there. But from what I heard, he wanted to focus on school and just be a normal kid. I THINK he graduated with a degree in Finance and worked at a bank.
100% agree with all of that. Competing in any sport in college is difficult, D1 that much harder and wrestling at the D1 level probably the hardest of all with the diet and weight requirements. It is easy to forget with all the focus on national rankings, Fargo results, world team births etc... that these highly skilled wrestlers are just kids trying to find their way in the world.