Badgers at NCAAs

[Army Ant]

We can continue to be "good" and occasionally have a "very good" year but I'm saying that if we want to go to the next level and be there consistently, we'll have to get  more (we'll never get all) of the top in-state kids. As others have said, HS talent here is getting better so that's an opportunity lost if you don't take advantage of it.

Unfortunately, we have a tradition of the top Badger wrestlers being from out of state and the top in-state talent having more success out of state. Look at all the national champions that went to HS in WI - guys like O'Toole, Dieringer, Konrad, Askren, and other that have been AAs. Almost all the AAs went out of state, and all the national champions did lately.

This is a tradition that Bono inherited so I'm not blaming him. I don't even know if I can blame Davis either. To a certain extent, this is just the way it worked out. Look at it this way: lots of room for improvement in this area. Seems like the low hanging fruit that is available to get us over the hump. Other pathways will be much more difficult. I think the UW coaches would agree. 

[neutral]

I realize that Mocco is a very good wrestler ... and I'd love to have him at WI - but I didn't see him on the podium.  His escape from WI is nowhere near the level of hand-wringing as O'Toole, Keckeisen, and Buchannan.  And, by the way, he lost his first round match to Mason Kaufman ... who would have been nice to have as well.
Not that it would have necessarily made a difference ... since O'Toole committed to MO (via Askren) - but I believe that was  before Bono was hired.

[MNbadger]

I will respectfully disagree.  I think it is more important to be able to recruit the best talent nationally rather than in state first.  If the goal as you stated is to more than occasionally "very good".  In state recruiting success is helpful but not nearly as important as national success in pulling wrestlers to the program. 
MN couldn't get Mark Hall and others for different reasons.  We were not able to keep one of this year's best recruits who is going to Wyoming I think.  Another good kid, multiple time placer doesn't want to wrestle anymore.  There are too many situations to list.
If you look at the numbers below it is obvious where one should be recruiting from.......
Pennsylvania42
New Jersey33
Illinois33
Ohio22
Michigan17
California17
New York16
Minnesota14
Iowa13
Indiana11
Colorado11
Oklahoma9
Florida9
Virginia8
Missouri8
Wisconsin7
Kansas7
Georgia7
North Carolina5
Maryland4
West Virginia3
Washington3
Arizona3
North Dakota3
Montana3
Massachusetts3
Tennessee2
Utah2
Nebraska2
Connecticut2
Alaska2
Wyoming1
South Carolina1
Oregon1
New Hampshire1
(Cuba)1
Kentucky1
Idaho1
Hawaii1
Alabama1
Emphasizing in state recruiting over national recruiting puts you with the present Gopher program.  They do quite well overall of keeping MN kids.  When we were at the top we were drawing kids from all over the nation.

[vsmf2010]

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.

For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.

Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.

There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.

What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?

Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.

There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.

[Army Ant]

Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:

1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general. 
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish. 

Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke). 

[vsmf2010]

Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:

1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general. 
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish. 

Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).

There is a fair bit to unpack here but I would like to respond.

I am sure we can agree that there is finite amount of resources (time and money) and I believe that the Badgers coaches are using every bit of it. So it is safe to assume that is you want more of the resources used in state you have to give up something nationally. You cannot have both. It is also not fair to look back and say they should have gotten this wrestler over that wrestler. As an example Thielke, Sueflohn and Dieringer all came out in the same class. We all thought they were great and would have loved to have all of them. The Badgers of course did not get them all. I imagine at the time most of us would have predicted AA's for all of them and possibly some championships for Thielke and Dieringer. Would anyone seriously have predicted zero AA's for the first 2 and 3 championships and currently one of the top FS wrestlers at his weight in the world for Dieringer? Also in that same recruiting class the Badgers signed Cody Caldwell (who had beaten Dieringer) and Destin McCauley who I believe may have been the #1 overall. Of course neither of them ended up wrestling here for different reasons but my point is at the time based on that class the Dieringer miss did not appear to be as big as it was.

So if you want more Wisconsin kids who are you willing to give up? Who would you rather of had last year over DJ? I assume you would have rather had Keegan over Braxton in 2020 but at the time I did on see anyone on this forum complaining about getting the #1 overall recruit. Sure both would be great but realistically that does not happen for a college (with the exception of somehow inexplicitly Ohio St getting the top 3 recruits for 2022). None of them are from Ohio for what it is worth. Who do you want to give up for next year to get more WI kids. You giving up Rowley to get Whiting?. Did Whiting even have any interest in the UW? 

Your assertion that you get more bang for the buck in state is likely true. So I will not dispute that but the bucks are not unlimited. Also the increased fan base based on WI kids is definitely a possibility but I have sat in the field house and watched teams with a lot more WI kids in the lineup vs this year with only 2 and I can say I enjoyed watching this team wrestle more than any team ever. Additionally I would say the hype surrounding Braxton committing, winning world medals, and competing in the olympic trials created more buzz than I can remember in a long time. I do not know the attendance figures but the crowds seemed pretty good this year and that was coming off covid and with a mask mandate that may have hurt the crowd some.

I am opposite of you as far WI kids vs Badgers but I may be in the minority. I root for all Badgers equally regardless of where they are from. I do follow the WI HS kids who wrestle elsewhere and wish them well (when not wrestling the Badgers) but I am way more invested in the Badger lineup. I also attend every home meet and what every road match.

As far as the kids knowing each other encouraging them to wrestle together there is something but how often are there really high end WI on the same HS team. These top kids wrestle year round all over the country and around the world so there relationships with other wrestlers are not just local. Rowley mentioned that 2 of the reasons he committed to the UW was because of his relationship with Coach Reader and his relationship with Braxton. Top end wrestlers want to train with other top end wrestlers (ie Penn St) and WI HS does not have enough of them to fill the room.

Lastly, please give some example of the years and years of WI AA's wrestling at other schools. I do not remember that many.

[MNbadger]

Penn State roster lists 39 wrestlers, 13 from PA.
I think only one starter is from PA.  They have two great wrestlers from MN that lamented when they went there.
Iowa roster lists 33 wrestlers, 9 from IA.
One starter from IA (Brands).  They have three MN kids that were lamented when they went there.
This debate is interesting because the MN staff is criticized for two things:
Trying to win with MN kids.
Losing MN kids to other schools.

[Army Ant]

Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:

1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general. 
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish. 

Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).

There is a fair bit to unpack here but I would like to respond.

I am sure we can agree that there is finite amount of resources (time and money) and I believe that the Badgers coaches are using every bit of it. So it is safe to assume that is you want more of the resources used in state you have to give up something nationally. You cannot have both. It is also not fair to look back and say they should have gotten this wrestler over that wrestler. As an example Thielke, Sueflohn and Dieringer all came out in the same class. We all thought they were great and would have loved to have all of them. The Badgers of course did not get them all. I imagine at the time most of us would have predicted AA's for all of them and possibly some championships for Thielke and Dieringer. Would anyone seriously have predicted zero AA's for the first 2 and 3 championships and currently one of the top FS wrestlers at his weight in the world for Dieringer? Also in that same recruiting class the Badgers signed Cody Caldwell (who had beaten Dieringer) and Destin McCauley who I believe may have been the #1 overall. Of course neither of them ended up wrestling here for different reasons but my point is at the time based on that class the Dieringer miss did not appear to be as big as it was.

So if you want more Wisconsin kids who are you willing to give up? Who would you rather of had last year over DJ? I assume you would have rather had Keegan over Braxton in 2020 but at the time I did on see anyone on this forum complaining about getting the #1 overall recruit. Sure both would be great but realistically that does not happen for a college (with the exception of somehow inexplicitly Ohio St getting the top 3 recruits for 2022). None of them are from Ohio for what it is worth. Who do you want to give up for next year to get more WI kids. You giving up Rowley to get Whiting?. Did Whiting even have any interest in the UW? 

Your assertion that you get more bang for the buck in state is likely true. So I will not dispute that but the bucks are not unlimited. Also the increased fan base based on WI kids is definitely a possibility but I have sat in the field house and watched teams with a lot more WI kids in the lineup vs this year with only 2 and I can say I enjoyed watching this team wrestle more than any team ever. Additionally I would say the hype surrounding Braxton committing, winning world medals, and competing in the olympic trials created more buzz than I can remember in a long time. I do not know the attendance figures but the crowds seemed pretty good this year and that was coming off covid and with a mask mandate that may have hurt the crowd some.

I am opposite of you as far WI kids vs Badgers but I may be in the minority. I root for all Badgers equally regardless of where they are from. I do follow the WI HS kids who wrestle elsewhere and wish them well (when not wrestling the Badgers) but I am way more invested in the Badger lineup. I also attend every home meet and what every road match.

As far as the kids knowing each other encouraging them to wrestle together there is something but how often are there really high end WI on the same HS team. These top kids wrestle year round all over the country and around the world so there relationships with other wrestlers are not just local. Rowley mentioned that 2 of the reasons he committed to the UW was because of his relationship with Coach Reader and his relationship with Braxton. Top end wrestlers want to train with other top end wrestlers (ie Penn St) and WI HS does not have enough of them to fill the room.

Lastly, please give some example of the years and years of WI AA's wrestling at other schools. I do not remember that many.

I can't say for sure that they need to increase their efforts toward in-state recruiting. Maybe they've already stepped it up. Maybe they just need to do it smarter. Maybe Davis went at it hard too, but lost a lot of top kids for whatever reason. All I can see are the results over several decades, and I don't think the in-state recruiting went well, long-term. I didn't see the efforts that went into it or what went on behind the scenes. I suspect some kids couldn't get in due to grades/ACT and others were steered toward other schools (like MO). Bono inherited this so I want to make it crystal clear that I'm not blaming the Badger coaching staff.

Some examples of national champions (more AAs on top of that) over the past 2 decades: Dieringer, Askren, Konrad & O'Toole. Not sure if I'm missing some. That's what comes to mind.

[vsmf2010]

Do any of you find it interesting that many Wisconsin kids go west? I don't!!!
Madison is not for everyone for many many reasons. AWA wrestlers will continue to go to Mizz. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crass trained start a pipeline to Wyoming.
Madison is Madison it's not always just about the program.

Excellent point Harley. I am from Madison, lived here most of my life and call it home so going to UW would feel very natural to me but as others have said Madison is not for everyone.

I would not want to ever live in Iowa so Iowa would not be for me. I like Lincoln so I could see going to school in NE. I like the coaching staff at MN but the twin cities has too much winter for me so MN would be a no go. Also like Chicago to visit but did not enjoy it when I lived there so Northwestern is a no go. I love John Smith but no interest in Stillwater. ASU and Wyoming sound great so I could see going there. Probably pass on anything MI, not interested in Columbus or State College Either. I love TN so Little Rock or Chattanooga would be cool plus I know Kyle a little bit and I am a big fan.

If I could teleport myself back to HS and have been a good enough wrestler where anyone was interested I probably would have chosen the Naval Academy.

[MNbadger]

I would have ZERO interest in going there.  Madison would be my choice over Missouri to the nth degree.  I think that's the point.  Everyone is different for better or for worse.

Do any of you find it interesting that many Wisconsin kids go west? I don't!!!
Madison is not for everyone for many many reasons. AWA wrestlers will continue to go to Mizz. I wouldn't be surprised to see Crass trained start a pipeline to Wyoming.
Madison is Madison it's not always just about the program.

[PAUL]

I have nothing to add, other than that this is an extremely interesting and intelligent discussion among folks with the best interest of the sport, the athletes and the Badgers in mind.  Cheers to all of you on another season in the books!! 

[vsmf2010]

Nobody is saying disregard the kids from out of state. Let's put it this way. If WI has 4% of the top national talent (I don't know the actual %), you have to spend much more than 4% of your time recruiting in WI. I mean A LOT more. There are 3 reasons why:

1) You have a better chance of getting a top kid from WI than you do from another state. Therefore, you get more bang for the buck. You already have a head start.
2) This increases your fan base, which builds success on many levels. All other factors being equal, fans are going to have more interest in a home-grown kid than one from out of state. For me it makes a huge difference. I'm lukewarm on guys like Amos & Hamiti, compared to Barnett, Model & Rivera. Maybe less of an issue for others but there's still a difference, in general. 
3) Getting more of the in state kids builds a more consistent recruiting foundation. These kids know each other and some are even on the same teams. Once you start doing it, it is easier to keep it going. You can't say the same for getting kids from NJ, NY or PA. The WI-to-MO pipeline is an exception. This is hard to establish. 

Yes, there's a balance between in-state and out-of-state recruiting. Not sure about where our efforts have been, but the results have been VERY skewed in the direction of top in state kids having more success at out of state colleges and top Badgers being from other states. I'm not just talking about this year where 3 WI high schoolers got 1st, 3rd and 3rd at NCAAs. I'm talking years and years. it's actually become a tradition. I highly doubt you'd see this much of an imbalance at many, if any other schools in the country. I also highly doubt that the Badger coaches would dismiss this as a "non-issue." Getting Rivera was a big land and I hope we can do more of that in the future (e.g. Sinclair, Hopke).

There is a fair bit to unpack here but I would like to respond.

I am sure we can agree that there is finite amount of resources (time and money) and I believe that the Badgers coaches are using every bit of it. So it is safe to assume that is you want more of the resources used in state you have to give up something nationally. You cannot have both. It is also not fair to look back and say they should have gotten this wrestler over that wrestler. As an example Thielke, Sueflohn and Dieringer all came out in the same class. We all thought they were great and would have loved to have all of them. The Badgers of course did not get them all. I imagine at the time most of us would have predicted AA's for all of them and possibly some championships for Thielke and Dieringer. Would anyone seriously have predicted zero AA's for the first 2 and 3 championships and currently one of the top FS wrestlers at his weight in the world for Dieringer? Also in that same recruiting class the Badgers signed Cody Caldwell (who had beaten Dieringer) and Destin McCauley who I believe may have been the #1 overall. Of course neither of them ended up wrestling here for different reasons but my point is at the time based on that class the Dieringer miss did not appear to be as big as it was.

So if you want more Wisconsin kids who are you willing to give up? Who would you rather of had last year over DJ? I assume you would have rather had Keegan over Braxton in 2020 but at the time I did on see anyone on this forum complaining about getting the #1 overall recruit. Sure both would be great but realistically that does not happen for a college (with the exception of somehow inexplicitly Ohio St getting the top 3 recruits for 2022). None of them are from Ohio for what it is worth. Who do you want to give up for next year to get more WI kids. You giving up Rowley to get Whiting?. Did Whiting even have any interest in the UW? 

Your assertion that you get more bang for the buck in state is likely true. So I will not dispute that but the bucks are not unlimited. Also the increased fan base based on WI kids is definitely a possibility but I have sat in the field house and watched teams with a lot more WI kids in the lineup vs this year with only 2 and I can say I enjoyed watching this team wrestle more than any team ever. Additionally I would say the hype surrounding Braxton committing, winning world medals, and competing in the olympic trials created more buzz than I can remember in a long time. I do not know the attendance figures but the crowds seemed pretty good this year and that was coming off covid and with a mask mandate that may have hurt the crowd some.

I am opposite of you as far WI kids vs Badgers but I may be in the minority. I root for all Badgers equally regardless of where they are from. I do follow the WI HS kids who wrestle elsewhere and wish them well (when not wrestling the Badgers) but I am way more invested in the Badger lineup. I also attend every home meet and what every road match.

As far as the kids knowing each other encouraging them to wrestle together there is something but how often are there really high end WI on the same HS team. These top kids wrestle year round all over the country and around the world so there relationships with other wrestlers are not just local. Rowley mentioned that 2 of the reasons he committed to the UW was because of his relationship with Coach Reader and his relationship with Braxton. Top end wrestlers want to train with other top end wrestlers (ie Penn St) and WI HS does not have enough of them to fill the room.

Lastly, please give some example of the years and years of WI AA's wrestling at other schools. I do not remember that many.

I can't say for sure that they need to increase their efforts toward in-state recruiting. Maybe they've already stepped it up. Maybe they just need to do it smarter. Maybe Davis went at it hard too, but lost a lot of top kids for whatever reason. All I can see are the results over several decades, and I don't think the in-state recruiting went well, long-term. I didn't see the efforts that went into it or what went on behind the scenes. I suspect some kids couldn't get in due to grades/ACT and others were steered toward other schools (like MO). Bono inherited this so I want to make it crystal clear that I'm not blaming the Badger coaching staff.

Some examples of national champions (more AAs on top of that) over the past 2 decades: Dieringer, Askren, Konrad & O'Toole. Not sure if I'm missing some. That's what comes to mind.

That is 4 wrestlers in the past 20 years. I do not believe the UW recruited Askren very hard or at all. He was definitely considered out there and there were some questions about him. Definitely a miss but understandable. I recall him following around Marcus LaVesseur with a boom box blaring before the finals at Bi State and LaVesseur proceeded to tech fall him. I personally at the time thought he was a clown and did not think he would amount to much on the college level. Obviously I was completely wrong.

I do not recall the situation with Cole Konrad. Someone else with have to comment if the Badgers were in on him. As far as Dieringer, we have went through that. I believer the Badgers had the #1 recruiting class in the country at the time without. Turned out to be a huge miss but at the time you could not realistically expect to add him to a class that was that good already and we all no the situation with O'Toole. Aside from that and the 2020 group I do not recall a tremendous # of AA's from Wisconsin wrestling for other schools. If anyone has the list please share. Steven Monk comes to mind but I am drawing a blank on others. Alex Polizzi and Jake Sueflohn were very good college wrestlers wrestling elsewhere but neither AAed. Beau Breske was one that got away originally but he eventually made it back to the UW but he did not AA either.

[npope]

I think Bono and his crew know more about recruiting wrestling talent, no matter where it might come from, than anyone on this board. So I know enough to shut up when I know that better minds than mine are at work.

[downtown]

I have nothing to add, other than that this is an extremely interesting and intelligent discussion among folks with the best interest of the sport, the athletes and the Badgers in mind.  Cheers to all of you on another season in the books!! 

Totally agree.  I really appreciate the thoughts that are going back and forth on this.  I know for years (pre Bono) it always felt like the best kids weren't going to UW.  From what the rumors were they weren't even being looked at.  Deringer was a big miss, but I don't recall anybody to upset at the time when we were getting Theilke and McCauley.  That was a monster class that didn't turn out much.  Breske not coming to UW really got the anti Barry guys going.  But that turned out to not be a miss.  I don't remember anybody thinking Askren was going to be anything but a clown.  Boy was everyone wrong, including me.  Benny turned out to be a shark both in wrestling and business!  There has been quite a few national champions Conrad, Deringer, Otoole, Hartung, Askren, Askren.  Other really good kids like Lowney, Sufleon, Mocco, Keckeisen.  A lot of other "busts" that I am not going to name that went to other schools and haven't done anything that people were pissed when UW didn't land them.  But people have forgotten about those.  I would love to see all the state talent stay in state.  But it probably won't happen.

[Vir Fortis]

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this thread.

For starters I love Stephen Buchanan and love what he is done but I challenge you to find 1 coach that would have taken him over Braxton. Braxton was the #1 overall recruit and could have gone anywhere he wanted on a full ride. I do not recall Stephen being high up nationally. Credit to the young man. He took an opportunity and made himself into one of the nations best at his weight. I do not think is a fair to call him a miss however.

Keegan is a generational talent and like Braxton could have gone anywhere he wanted. If I remember correctly he was committed before the new coaching staff was on board and I never heard that WI was in the running for him. To assume that there is another Keegan wrestling in WI right now is a massive assumption.

There is so much more that goes into a kids decision where to wrestle. Their HS or club coach may have a relationship with coaches at other colleges. The HS and club coaches and parents do not have any obligation to the current coaching staff or the UW. They hopefully have the best interest of the wrestler in mind. I am a huge Badger wrestling fan but I do not know the coaches at all. The only D1 coaches I know are not at the UW. If I was still coaching and had a wrestler being recruited I would not push him to wrestle at the UW. That would be incredibly selfish of me. I would help the kid make the best decision for them.

What I have not seen mentioned is 9.9 scholarships. If you want to keep every WI kid who looks great and has potential to be a D1 starter are we giving them a full scholarship or do we expect them to give a hometown discount and wrestle here for less than they can get elsewhere or for nothing?

Lastly, as others have mentioned WI high school results and dominance at the state tournament are not really relevant to D1 success. National and world success are not a guarantee but are much better indicator of future success. Kids with Fargo, Powerade, Super32, Walsh Ironman, Doc B, World Team Trials, and World Championship results are the ones that most coaching staffs are focusing on. That is how they got Rowley and Bobzien who are both ranked higher and any WI kid this year including Whiting and are both in the top 31 overall recruits by Flo. Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see Whiting wrestling for the Badgers and I think that he will be very good but they are recruiting very good wrestlers nation wide. I believe they are in a a top middle schooler from PA who is a world champion Bo Basset. DJ was the 6th ranked recruit nationally last year and the top WI wrestlers were Matt Bianchi at 47 and Jager Eisch at 99. Class of 2020 did produce some great WI HS D1 talent but to assume that will happen every year is just not accurate at this point.

There is not enough money or opportunities for all the WI kids that many of you would like and the national recruits the Badgers are after. I am very excited about Clark and Rivera and I hope there are other great WI wrestlers coming to the UW but I disagree that the path to success at the UW is by getting all of the top WI kids at the expense of national recruiting.

Fair amount of revisionists history and assumptions on this POST.

Who has said they would rather have had Buchanan over Amos? I don't believe anyone said that.

2-Sure. Keegan could have gone anywhere and is an incredible talent. And? How does that mean you shouldn't make getting in-state talent a priority? What's the "revisionism" going on there? Did anyone say he wasn't a top recruit and a generational talent? His College success thus far is...pretty similar to that of Parker's but Parker was in a tougher weight this year. But fine, Hopke and Milard and Sinclair are 3 guys who ABSOLUTELY have enormous Collegiate Potential. Hopke's coming off a triple crown and the other two are at LEAST on that same level.

3-Yeah...lots goes into a decision about where to go to College. That's not new information.

4-I don't think anyone said we need to keep every single Wisconsin kid who looks like he could be a good College Wrestler...but outside of the absolute top recruits, very few Wrestlers are getting a full scholarship. But if you're asking if we should give the top kids in the state full scholarships? Sure...

5-Lastly...please look at what the kids who are coming up through Wisconsin are doing Nationally right now?
Rivera dominated the #1 ranked recruit at the Cheesehead...on his way to winning one of those tournaments. And...the Badgers got him!


I'm genuinely confused why it's such a controversial take to say that...in order for the Badgers to take that next step, they need to keep the BEST Wrestlers from Wisconsin IN WISCONSIN. Especially as we're in the midst of some of the best in-state Wrestling talent we've ever seen(For what it's worth, Askren said the '24 class will be the best in Wisconsin history...so with respect, I don't care if Koy Hopke Wrestles at the Ironman, we've seen him wrestle the best in the Country.