It's the thread you know you needed: 12 weights

[ramjet]

The real question should be Board shorts or singlets?

Or Should we put the team logo on the face masks ?

12-13 or 14 is the least of this sports worries.

Are we going to have a season should be more of the focus than this.

[Ghetto]

Pennsylvania still in the future with 13 weight idea. Vote is in May.

For duals sure let's go to 13 or even 12, but why are we trying to take away opportunities from kids for the individual part of the sport. That doesn't make an sense and is the opposite of growing the sport. I love the data Ghetto, but if you want to solve a dual problem let's not hurt the tournament part of our sport.

Less weight classes will lower wrestling numbers. That is the opposite of growing the sport. Again as I said other sports growing opportunities(more divisions) which means there is a higher chance of making it to sectionals or state. To get more kids we need more opportunities not cutting weight classes.

Let's focus on more important problems that will help grow our sport than cut opportunities like: double elimination at state, get rid of 7+7 rule, restructuring the regional/sectional system so it is the same for all divisions, seperating the best teams in a sectional(they at least get to dual at team sectionals), seeding state, addressing weight cutting/growth allowance, etc.

I would be all in for 12 for duals and 14 for tournaments. All day.

Truth is we don't know if lowering the weight classes will lower numbers. It hasn't been done at the HS level. We see an increase in kids as we've increased weights, but there's no real way to show a direct correlation between going to 14 weights and increased participation. I am all in for four divisions at state if it will increase our numbers. 12/13 weights along with four divisions might be the trick.

It is my contention that wrestling JV is an opportunity. Even if we cut to 12 weights, we have more varsity performers than any other sport. Football gets more kids in the game, but most other sports don't go 12 deep on their bench.

I am also for getting rid of the 7/7 rule, double elimination at state, etc. Is there really a debate FOR single elimination? Really it's a time/logistics issue. Same with 7/7. The only reason to keep it is because we've always done it that way.

The weight allowance issue could be debated.

While I totally agree that some sectionals are stacked, and it's unfair, this is true in all sports. It would take a complete overhaul of how the WIAA does things. They'd also have to relinquish some control to coaches, and I just don't see that happening.

[Ghetto]

The real question should be Board shorts or singlets?

Or Should we put the team logo on the face masks ?

12-13 or 14 is the least of this sports worries.

Are we going to have a season should be more of the focus than this.

We already can use both Board Shorts and singlets.

We have zero control over whether or not we have a season.

[imnofish]

Pennsylvania still in the future with 13 weight idea. Vote is in May.

For duals sure let's go to 13 or even 12, but why are we trying to take away opportunities from kids for the individual part of the sport. That doesn't make an sense and is the opposite of growing the sport. I love the data Ghetto, but if you want to solve a dual problem let's not hurt the tournament part of our sport.

Less weight classes will lower wrestling numbers. That is the opposite of growing the sport. Again as I said other sports growing opportunities(more divisions) which means there is a higher chance of making it to sectionals or state. To get more kids we need more opportunities not cutting weight classes.

Let's focus on more important problems that will help grow our sport than cut opportunities like: double elimination at state, get rid of 7+7 rule, restructuring the regional/sectional system so it is the same for all divisions, seperating the best teams in a sectional(they at least get to dual at team sectionals), seeding state, addressing weight cutting/growth allowance, etc.

I would be all in for 12 for duals and 14 for tournaments. All day.

Truth is we don't know if lowering the weight classes will lower numbers. It hasn't been done at the HS level. We see an increase in kids as we've increased weights, but there's no real way to show a direct correlation between going to 14 weights and increased participation. I am all in for four divisions at state if it will increase our numbers. 12/13 weights along with four divisions might be the trick.

It is my contention that wrestling JV is an opportunity. Even if we cut to 12 weights, we have more varsity performers than any other sport. Football gets more kids in the game, but most other sports don't go 12 deep on their bench.

I am also for getting rid of the 7/7 rule, double elimination at state, etc. Is there really a debate FOR single elimination? Really it's a time/logistics issue. Same with 7/7. The only reason to keep it is because we've always done it that way.

The weight allowance issue could be debated.

While I totally agree that some sectionals are stacked, and it's unfair, this is true in all sports. It would take a complete overhaul of how the WIAA does things. They'd also have to relinquish some control to coaches, and I just don't see that happening.

The thing we tend to overlook about reshuffling the deck for Sectionals is that program dominance does go through periods of change.  I get that there are programs that have a long history of success, but even they go through ups and downs.  Sometimes, those down periods can be persistent which might force the WIAA to totally reconfigure the assignments more regularly than we might expect.  Also, with the cost of travel and inadequate school funding, I can see some districts thinking that their increased expenses due to reassignment is unfair.  There are also stacked regionals, especially in certain Division 2 and 3 weight classes, when only 2 kids can advance.  Is that unfair, too?  Bottom line: The WIAA probably doesn't want to open this can of worms and I can see why.  The focus should be on other structural options that improve opportunities throughout the tournament system.

[ramjet]

The real question should be Board shorts or singlets?

Or Should we put the team logo on the face masks ?

12-13 or 14 is the least of this sports worries.

Are we going to have a season should be more of the focus than this.

We already can use both Board Shorts and singlets.

We have zero control over whether or not we have a season.

As a school you are correct however let's hope some innovative business people find a way to have competitions for wrestling that will salvage the sport. Then they can use as many weight classes they deem reasonable so everyone gets some wrestling in.

Might be time to move this sport to a club sport.

[asdfg]

Pennsylvania still in the future with 13 weight idea. Vote is in May.

For duals sure let's go to 13 or even 12, but why are we trying to take away opportunities from kids for the individual part of the sport. That doesn't make an sense and is the opposite of growing the sport. I love the data Ghetto, but if you want to solve a dual problem let's not hurt the tournament part of our sport.

Less weight classes will lower wrestling numbers. That is the opposite of growing the sport. Again as I said other sports growing opportunities(more divisions) which means there is a higher chance of making it to sectionals or state. To get more kids we need more opportunities not cutting weight classes.

Let's focus on more important problems that will help grow our sport than cut opportunities like: double elimination at state, get rid of 7+7 rule, restructuring the regional/sectional system so it is the same for all divisions, seperating the best teams in a sectional(they at least get to dual at team sectionals), seeding state, addressing weight cutting/growth allowance, etc.

I would be all in for 12 for duals and 14 for tournaments. All day.

Truth is we don't know if lowering the weight classes will lower numbers. It hasn't been done at the HS level. We see an increase in kids as we've increased weights, but there's no real way to show a direct correlation between going to 14 weights and increased participation. I am all in for four divisions at state if it will increase our numbers. 12/13 weights along with four divisions might be the trick.

It is my contention that wrestling JV is an opportunity. Even if we cut to 12 weights, we have more varsity performers than any other sport. Football gets more kids in the game, but most other sports don't go 12 deep on their bench.

I am also for getting rid of the 7/7 rule, double elimination at state, etc. Is there really a debate FOR single elimination? Really it's a time/logistics issue. Same with 7/7. The only reason to keep it is because we've always done it that way.

The weight allowance issue could be debated.

While I totally agree that some sectionals are stacked, and it's unfair, this is true in all sports. It would take a complete overhaul of how the WIAA does things. They'd also have to relinquish some control to coaches, and I just don't see that happening.

-"JV is an opportunity" and filling that opportunity just by offering less varsity spots will do nothing to increase participation #'s.  So the solution to increasing JV opportunity is to have less kids make Varsity??? I can't imagine a kid saying, "wow, there are 20 kids instead of 19 on the JV squad, so I am going out."  or the reverse--"wow, 13 spots on varsity instead of 14, so I'm going to go out now."

-comparing wrestling to other sports is a false equivalency.  Stop it.  But if you want to debate, fine.  Generally speaking-Football has opportunity for starters on defense, offense and Special teams.  Soccer,  basketball, etc. will sub in multiple players a game to allow for varsity playing time, much more then 14 spots.  Tennis has singles and doubles. Track has tons of varsity spots.  Generally speaking, except for getting coded or injury, wrestling starts and finishes with the same kids, no need to knock it down less.  Also-While wrestling has 14 varsity spots, it really is opportunity for 1 to 2 spots for a kid because that varsity spot is size dependent.  A big kid in football has opportunity for O-line, D-line, Linebacker, etc.  The B-ball kid can try to crack the line-up in 3-4 spots, on and on.

-"we don't know if lowering weight classes will lower numbers."  Well we also don't know if lowering weight classes will raise numbers either.  As lots of people are saying-there are lots of concrete, objective changes that can and should occur first.

[Ghetto]

Pennsylvania still in the future with 13 weight idea. Vote is in May.

For duals sure let's go to 13 or even 12, but why are we trying to take away opportunities from kids for the individual part of the sport. That doesn't make an sense and is the opposite of growing the sport. I love the data Ghetto, but if you want to solve a dual problem let's not hurt the tournament part of our sport.

Less weight classes will lower wrestling numbers. That is the opposite of growing the sport. Again as I said other sports growing opportunities(more divisions) which means there is a higher chance of making it to sectionals or state. To get more kids we need more opportunities not cutting weight classes.

Let's focus on more important problems that will help grow our sport than cut opportunities like: double elimination at state, get rid of 7+7 rule, restructuring the regional/sectional system so it is the same for all divisions, seperating the best teams in a sectional(they at least get to dual at team sectionals), seeding state, addressing weight cutting/growth allowance, etc.

I would be all in for 12 for duals and 14 for tournaments. All day.

Truth is we don't know if lowering the weight classes will lower numbers. It hasn't been done at the HS level. We see an increase in kids as we've increased weights, but there's no real way to show a direct correlation between going to 14 weights and increased participation. I am all in for four divisions at state if it will increase our numbers. 12/13 weights along with four divisions might be the trick.

It is my contention that wrestling JV is an opportunity. Even if we cut to 12 weights, we have more varsity performers than any other sport. Football gets more kids in the game, but most other sports don't go 12 deep on their bench.

I am also for getting rid of the 7/7 rule, double elimination at state, etc. Is there really a debate FOR single elimination? Really it's a time/logistics issue. Same with 7/7. The only reason to keep it is because we've always done it that way.

The weight allowance issue could be debated.

While I totally agree that some sectionals are stacked, and it's unfair, this is true in all sports. It would take a complete overhaul of how the WIAA does things. They'd also have to relinquish some control to coaches, and I just don't see that happening.

-"JV is an opportunity" and filling that opportunity just by offering less varsity spots will do nothing to increase participation #'s.  So the solution to increasing JV opportunity is to have less kids make Varsity??? I can't imagine a kid saying, "wow, there are 20 kids instead of 19 on the JV squad, so I am going out."  or the reverse--"wow, 13 spots on varsity instead of 14, so I'm going to go out now."

-comparing wrestling to other sports is a false equivalency.  Stop it.  But if you want to debate, fine.  Generally speaking-Football has opportunity for starters on defense, offense and Special teams.  Soccer,  basketball, etc. will sub in multiple players a game to allow for varsity playing time, much more then 14 spots.  Tennis has singles and doubles. Track has tons of varsity spots.  Generally speaking, except for getting coded or injury, wrestling starts and finishes with the same kids, no need to knock it down less.  Also-While wrestling has 14 varsity spots, it really is opportunity for 1 to 2 spots for a kid because that varsity spot is size dependent.  A big kid in football has opportunity for O-line, D-line, Linebacker, etc.  The B-ball kid can try to crack the line-up in 3-4 spots, on and on.

-"we don't know if lowering weight classes will lower numbers."  Well we also don't know if lowering weight classes will raise numbers either.  As lots of people are saying-there are lots of concrete, objective changes that can and should occur first.

JV is an opportunity to wrestle. We talk about removing opportunities. We are taking a varsity spot, maybe, if the team fills all the weights. We are not taking away the opportunity to wrestle. I'll go back to the things I've said a million times on here: Most teams don't fill 14 weights, and when they do, often times it's just with a body. Do kids go out for wrestling because they can make varsity and that is their reasoning? Meaning- a kid who has never wrestled before sees that there is a spot at 126 and because he weighs that, he would get put in there?

Correct. We don't know what will happen. Also correct that there are plenty of concrete things that can happen. What wrestling should not do in my opinion (or any sport) is do one thing and hope it works without doing others.

[MNbadger]

Well said.  You did a better job of explaining that than I could have.

Pennsylvania still in the future with 13 weight idea. Vote is in May.

For duals sure let's go to 13 or even 12, but why are we trying to take away opportunities from kids for the individual part of the sport. That doesn't make an sense and is the opposite of growing the sport. I love the data Ghetto, but if you want to solve a dual problem let's not hurt the tournament part of our sport.

Less weight classes will lower wrestling numbers. That is the opposite of growing the sport. Again as I said other sports growing opportunities(more divisions) which means there is a higher chance of making it to sectionals or state. To get more kids we need more opportunities not cutting weight classes.

Let's focus on more important problems that will help grow our sport than cut opportunities like: double elimination at state, get rid of 7+7 rule, restructuring the regional/sectional system so it is the same for all divisions, seperating the best teams in a sectional(they at least get to dual at team sectionals), seeding state, addressing weight cutting/growth allowance, etc.

I would be all in for 12 for duals and 14 for tournaments. All day.

Truth is we don't know if lowering the weight classes will lower numbers. It hasn't been done at the HS level. We see an increase in kids as we've increased weights, but there's no real way to show a direct correlation between going to 14 weights and increased participation. I am all in for four divisions at state if it will increase our numbers. 12/13 weights along with four divisions might be the trick.

It is my contention that wrestling JV is an opportunity. Even if we cut to 12 weights, we have more varsity performers than any other sport. Football gets more kids in the game, but most other sports don't go 12 deep on their bench.

I am also for getting rid of the 7/7 rule, double elimination at state, etc. Is there really a debate FOR single elimination? Really it's a time/logistics issue. Same with 7/7. The only reason to keep it is because we've always done it that way.

The weight allowance issue could be debated.

While I totally agree that some sectionals are stacked, and it's unfair, this is true in all sports. It would take a complete overhaul of how the WIAA does things. They'd also have to relinquish some control to coaches, and I just don't see that happening.

-"JV is an opportunity" and filling that opportunity just by offering less varsity spots will do nothing to increase participation #'s.  So the solution to increasing JV opportunity is to have less kids make Varsity??? I can't imagine a kid saying, "wow, there are 20 kids instead of 19 on the JV squad, so I am going out."  or the reverse--"wow, 13 spots on varsity instead of 14, so I'm going to go out now."

-comparing wrestling to other sports is a false equivalency.  Stop it.  But if you want to debate, fine.  Generally speaking-Football has opportunity for starters on defense, offense and Special teams.  Soccer,  basketball, etc. will sub in multiple players a game to allow for varsity playing time, much more then 14 spots.  Tennis has singles and doubles. Track has tons of varsity spots.  Generally speaking, except for getting coded or injury, wrestling starts and finishes with the same kids, no need to knock it down less.  Also-While wrestling has 14 varsity spots, it really is opportunity for 1 to 2 spots for a kid because that varsity spot is size dependent.  A big kid in football has opportunity for O-line, D-line, Linebacker, etc.  The B-ball kid can try to crack the line-up in 3-4 spots, on and on.

-"we don't know if lowering weight classes will lower numbers."  Well we also don't know if lowering weight classes will raise numbers either.  As lots of people are saying-there are lots of concrete, objective changes that can and should occur first.

[TomM]

Pennsylvania sees 'issues' with keeping 14 weight classes in high school

https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/23586

(Note: clicking 'quote' instead of 'reply' seems to be an annoying virus of its own. Just sayin')

[MNbadger]

"Might be time to move this sport to a club sport."
Club sports are suspended presently due to C19 as well.

[ramjet]

That's going to change here very soon....

JV opportunities are ok if you are on a winning team like Coleman for example but not so much on a team with 8 kids......

Going to 12 weights will encourage weight cutting and will reduce participation....

[Numbers]

That's going to change here very soon....

JV opportunities are ok if you are on a winning team like Coleman for example but not so much on a team with 8 kids......

Going to 12 weights will encourage weight cutting and will reduce participation....

Weight management/cutting happens now.  Would moving to 12 weights increase that number by 5%? Maybe.

Remember there are plenty of kids that wrestle up a weight, not cutting at all, and still giving up weight.

[MNbadger]

If wrestling were just a club sport numbers would be incredibly low.

[littleguy301]

Make 2 divisions then, one with 14 weights and 1 with 12 weights.

[TomM]

...Are we going to have a season should be more of the focus than this....

Made an attempt at a genuine discussion with this focus. Name calling, finger pointing, accusations etc. ensued.
Can we try it again and have success?