Rules to help keep kids enjoying and involved in wrestling?

[GradeTough]

I can tell you that crying kids and screaming parents are the feedback I hear most from non-wrestling parents that have been to a youth tournament. If someday their kid has a desire to wrestle, they have a negative perception already.

Bingo. Even my custodians will comment how nice our school run duals and tourneys are, then the big youth tourney and psycho dads, kids snivellin' left and right.

Think we are better off abandoning/moving away from youth tourneys and moving towards youth scrimmages or duals with teams. Coaches coach their wrestlers, parents stay in the stands, and wrestlers get a better atmosphere to wrestle in.

The challenges you have with Coaches coaching their wrestlers in a tourney is that there are not always enough coaches to go around and you have conflicting matches going on at the same time. More dual meet formats definitely address the challenges of coaches coaching kids. Allowing parents to be parents and be nervous in the stands.

At a youth age, it appears to be critical that parents are knowledgeable about the sport and their child for assistance. For example, there are high-level individual tournaments that Coaches aren't able to attend. So the support and coaching by a parent is important.

Kids coming off the mat crying from losses in a tourney is a matter of training the emotions to stay in check. A dual format doesn't eliminate this but does allow the support of the team to soften a loss and curtail the outbreaks. Dual formats appear to be very popular out East and successful.

[CLC FAN]

Just brainstorming and thinking about when I have seen kids in a really bad spot emotionally during a match.... it almost all comes down to mat wrestling.  For a lot of kids, losing on the scoreboard doesn't crush them the way being held down or pinned does. 

Maybe more Takedown tournaments for beginners?  How about this:  We wrestle 3 periods.  You only earn a TD if you have control of him for a 3 count.  As soon as the ref hits 3... we're back up to our feet no matter what.  TD = 2 points, TD to his back = 4.  No pins.

I think someone said it well, kids and their parents need to fall in love with wrestling before they get introduced to some of the crazier aspects of the youth wrestling scene.

[benrud3]

When would we teach them about wrestling on the mat? Wouldn't we go through the same issues down the road, when we teach them about getting pinned or getting held down on the mat?

Just brainstorming and thinking about when I have seen kids in a really bad spot emotionally during a match.... it almost all comes down to mat wrestling.  For a lot of kids, losing on the scoreboard doesn't crush them the way being held down or pinned does. 

Maybe more Takedown tournaments for beginners?  How about this:  We wrestle 3 periods.  You only earn a TD if you have control of him for a 3 count.  As soon as the ref hits 3... we're back up to our feet no matter what.  TD = 2 points, TD to his back = 4.  No pins.

I think someone said it well, kids and their parents need to fall in love with wrestling before they get introduced to some of the crazier aspects of the youth wrestling scene.

[OneEyedFatMan]

Have a novice only mat/tournament?  Maybe they already do this.

[Handles II]

Um...ok...
While there were certainly some suggestions, ideas, or "rules" that were listed that almost certainly could benefit the kids and the sport, that wasn't really what I was asking. Most certainly parents at a football game are on the sidelines and not crawling onto the playing field. A very good point. BUT

I listed examples of proactive rule changes or modifications to be implemented during practice or the games that are different than at the Varsity or College level designed to protect the athletes, or in some other way help the enjoyment of the sport to attract and retain kids (and parents).

We have 1-1-1, but other than that, what are some rules that we could have, or maybe should have, at age or experience levels that will hopefully help kids stay in the sport? Have we really ever looked into this? If not, why not?

[Handles II]

Just brainstorming and thinking about when I have seen kids in a really bad spot emotionally during a match.... it almost all comes down to mat wrestling.  For a lot of kids, losing on the scoreboard doesn't crush them the way being held down or pinned does. 

Maybe more Takedown tournaments for beginners?  How about this:  We wrestle 3 periods.  You only earn a TD if you have control of him for a 3 count.  As soon as the ref hits 3... we're back up to our feet no matter what.  TD = 2 points, TD to his back = 4.  No pins.

I think someone said it well, kids and their parents need to fall in love with wrestling before they get introduced to some of the crazier aspects of the youth wrestling scene.

This might be an idea that could be fleshed out a bit and be helpful. To answer Jbenrud's question; I think that the learning process of mat wrestling could or should continue throughout their development, but perhaps not in tournaments.  I sort of agree with the thinking that getting pinned is typically more emotionally difficult to handle, even for older kids. Also kids get pinned in practice all the time and it doesn't seem to phase them, but when it happens at a tournament, it's quite a different story.
Something to think about anyway.
Keep ideas like this flowing.

[GradeTough]

Have a novice only mat/tournament?  Maybe they already do this.

There is a novice tournament held every year in Cedarburg called "Grant Schoen Beginners Tournament".  I even heard kids get ice cream after the tournament.

Here is the event flyer -> http://www.trackwrestling.com/tw/uploads/O-32047132-GSBT2018_fnl.pdf

[DocWrestling]

I guess I will be the bad guy and say it.  "Why do we have or want novice tournaments?"  To me that means they are not ready so why are we pushing them to compete? To see who is better?  Are we just doing it because we want them to get an award?  Why do we have "beginner" designations at tournaments.  If you are a beginner why are you at a tournament?

Think about that.  As parents and coaches are we putting competition ahead of practice and development.  Wrestling for 5 minutes at a tournament sure isn't making anyone better in my mind.

Some may find it fun and that can be the reason and can make sense but still find it odd.

For the record, my son has been casually wrestling since kindergarten and now in 3rd grade he practiced more than once a week this year.  Took him to his first tourneys this year.  I would not consider him a beginner by definition but it was his first tournament so that is how I entered him.  He got beat by many other beginners and beat one kid labeled average over the season.  He had some fun going to a few tourneys but don't think they helped much but at least it did not turn him off which was always my fear.

In my mind too many kids get pushed into tournaments to fast.  We would certainly need more weight classes if all these youth wrestlers actually wrestled in high school

[ramjet]

Under 6th grade they do not need allot of tournaments.

I like the idea of duals at younger ages much better control and it will keep the parents in the stands.

What we do not need is more everyone gets a trophy mentality.


Rules to help;

Estimating weights zero weigh ins (not getting on the scale until middle school).
More dual meets for youth. Team building.

[dforsythe]

I would love to see the headlock removed from the younger ages. Many kids get caught in a headlock and can't breathe. That is very scary and often the last time they wrestle. Make it illegal or potentially dangerous in the elementary grades.

[ramjet]

I would love to see the headlock removed from the younger ages. Many kids get caught in a headlock and can't breathe. That is very scary and often the last time they wrestle. Make it illegal or potentially dangerous in the elementary grades.

The defense to the headlock is easily taught and if the defense is executed it will result in the headlock user being pinned or scored upon.

Now the choke or on the neck should be matter of emphasis for the refs so that kids are not being choked out that causes allot panic and emotion. IT IS NOT FUN FOR THEM  That is a solid area to work on that has a lot of negative impact on the younger wrestlers so an emphasis and training to make sure the kids are not being choked out is an excellent point.

[dforsythe]

I would love to see the headlock removed from the younger ages. Many kids get caught in a headlock and can't breathe. That is very scary and often the last time they wrestle. Make it illegal or potentially dangerous in the elementary grades.

The defense to the headlock is easily taught and if the defense is executed it will result in the headlock user being pinned or scored upon.

Now the choke or on the neck should be matter of emphasis for the refs so that kids are not being choked out that causes allot panic and emotion. IT IS NOT FUN FOR THEM  That is a solid area to work on that has a lot of negative impact on the younger wrestlers so an emphasis and training to make sure the kids are not being choked out is an excellent point.

You are correct. The defense is easy to teach. I agree with you, the emphasis should be on when they are being choked in the headlock and getting it stopped quickly.

[Handles II]

Guys I like the line of discussion about the headlock. Yes, it can be defended, but doesn't that actually mean we have to be teaching it to teach to defend it? Doesn't one partner need to be doing the headlock motion in order for the partner to do the defense?
With our youngest and least experienced wrestlers, we need to make sure to teach the defense to the headlock and therefore the headlock as soon as possible because it is in some cases a career ending move and we know that there are some parents and coaches that show it as one of the best moves because it does work. Does that make sense?  Is that what we should be teaching our kids?

How about only leg attacks for offensive takedowns for the first few years? Wouldn't that actually get our youth away from the Frankenstein stance with straight legs and arms reaching for the head/neck area?

We could even add no collar-ties. This might prevent the dreaded ear-to-ear that is so difficult a habit to break, and prevent that temptation for the headlock.  Shoulder, arm, wrist, ties/drags are generally better setups anyway, right? Perhaps this could lead to better fundamentals from the start, and the progressions forward in the intermediate years should be more fluid.

[wrastle63]

Guys I like the line of discussion about the headlock. Yes, it can be defended, but doesn't that actually mean we have to be teaching it to teach to defend it? Doesn't one partner need to be doing the headlock motion in order for the partner to do the defense?
With our youngest and least experienced wrestlers, we need to make sure to teach the defense to the headlock and therefore the headlock as soon as possible because it is in some cases a career ending move and we know that there are some parents and coaches that show it as one of the best moves because it does work. Does that make sense?  Is that what we should be teaching our kids?

How about only leg attacks for offensive takedowns for the first few years? Wouldn't that actually get our youth away from the Frankenstein stance with straight legs and arms reaching for the head/neck area?

We could even add no collar-ties. This might prevent the dreaded ear-to-ear that is so difficult a habit to break, and prevent that temptation for the headlock.  Shoulder, arm, wrist, ties/drags are generally better setups anyway, right? Perhaps this could lead to better fundamentals from the start, and the progressions forward in the intermediate years should be more fluid.

Agreed I would LOVE to ban the headlock at the young ages to get them to work on the basics. The headlock can be a great move but it isn't going to benefit kids if that is their move. We have all seen the kid who is strong than others who dominates in 1st, 2nd, etc. but then loses as they get older because that is all they know. Ban the move in youth so they learn how to be in a good stance, learn how to develop a shot, and don't develop bad habits.

[ramjet]

But mostly what you are speaking too is educating and getting the coaches to teach fundamentals or coaching guidelines. I agree on the headlock but am not willing to say ban it. Maybe penalty points if it is improper
unused for sure to discourage it.

All good stuff but it seems we have to have consistency in teaching wrestling starting with fundamentals. Like
eg attacks low singles or properly executed blast double. High crotch etc.. I know clubs and school,programs that emphasize this. A they also tech defending the headlock and trust me the kids who try to execute it in there wrestlers get put right to their backs with roll throughs and a defensive lift.

The reason so many use it in youth is because it works. Teach a solid defense so it does not work and they will not have success with it and they will stop using it.

A properly executed head and arm throw is an effective wrestling technique used even on occasion in D1 but usually in HS it becomes far less effective because of defense.

Choking and improper technique should be met with penalty points I agree with that. But banning is extreme and not really nessecery.

Those who teach it early usually only have early success and after time they find out it causes there wrestler too loose more matches than win. At the very very young ages the ref should stop if the kids are doing nothing but grabbing at the head. I actually think diaper division should be eliminated anyways. A wrestling at tournaments should start at 4-5 grade. No compitition other than very controlled matches any earlier.