Filling WI Weight Classes: The Data

[ramjet]

The issue is you have NOT made a compelling argument against 14 weights using erroneous numbers and stats to say it causes declining participation overall is akin to saying if you eat 10 French fries instead of 14 you will be skinnier. Sure....... maybe, but the issue is not the number of French Fries as much as it it is THE FRENCH FRIES.


IF YOU WANT TO INCREASE THE PARTICIPATION LEVELS IN WRESTLING LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. THAT PERSON YOU SEE IN THE MIRROR EVERY MORNING IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO CAN TRUELY CHANGE THINGS.

[Ghetto]

Those are the numbers.

No one (ok, I can't speak for everyone, but...) is saying that increasing weights CAUSED the decline in numbers. As much as I am for less weights, I don't think there is a correlation between the two. But we can agree that increasing weights did not increase the number of kids wrestling. There is no question there.

Here is where we disagree: I believe that we should make wrestling exciting, work on ideas to build programs,AND at the same time lower the amount of weights. I no longer want to wait. All sports are trending down, I get that. Kids are not playing more than one sport, and all kinds of other things.

The bottom line is that there are less kids wrestling and we are keeping the same amount of weights.

[aarons23]

Well apparently everyone doesn't believe less is better for wrestling....

Also on the docket are new weight classes starting in 2018. 55 kg, 60 kg, 65 kg, 70 kg, 75 kg, 80 kg, 85 kg, 90 kg, 100 kg, and 130 kg. 2020's Tokyo Olympics will still only host six weight classes, but a couple of extra non-Olympic weights along with a more logical ascension seems like a step in the right direction

[aarons23]

BTW....with the addition on non Olympic weights there will be a total of 14 weights at the international level.  Good thing they don't believe growing the sport is accomplished by diminishing it.

[Ghetto]

Current world population:

7,480,316,918

It's a little creepy to watch it go up and down, knowing that those are births and deaths...


Current Wisconsin population:

5,758,000

I know that you and I are not ever going to agree on this, but I don't think adjusting the weight classes diminishes our sport. I don't think it reduces opportunities.

The national federation just sent a survey out about building wrestling, and there was a question on how many weights to take out. Apparently there are others out there that think adjusting the weights might be an option.

[Handles II]

Actually Aarons, the number of french fries IS the issue. Some is fine, but too many is unhealthy. It's quite odd that you can't understand that.    We have increased the number of weights as the participation numbers have gone down and the number of forfeits has gone up. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It should be no shock that we are losing programs. The numbers I have shown are not erroneous as much as you might like them to be.

I never said 14 weights caused wrestling participation to drop (aside from situations where schools decided to cut programs because the team couldn't fill it's varsity, much less JV weight classes and then we lost an entire program). What I have been saying all along is that A. going to 14 weights did not help improve numbers B. 14 weights is causing more forfeits and thus hurting the sport and individual programs.

It's also rather a bunch of BS with your "look in the mirror". I would say that ALL of us on this board love this sport and do everything we can to help improve participation and/or keep kids involved. I know that all the other coaches I've worked with, met, etc. are doing the same thing. If you don't agree, then the problem is within you, because it's a non-stop, year-round recruit fest with fun and games and camping trips and bowling and swimming and posters and highlights videos etc above and beyond the practices, and competitions. If you are blind to the efforts that coaches are making state-wide, large and small schools, then dude, open your eyes. It's happening. It just doesn't always work as well as we want.

I understand you hate all these numbers but they are showing the reality of the situation. Alternative facts don't fly in this sport.

[aarons23]

Actually Aarons, the number of french fries IS the issue. Some is fine, but too many is unhealthy. It's quite odd that you can't understand that.    We have increased the number of weights as the participation numbers have gone down and the number of forfeits has gone up. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It should be no shock that we are losing programs. The numbers I have shown are not erroneous as much as you might like them to be.

I never said 14 weights caused wrestling participation to drop (aside from situations where schools decided to cut programs because the team couldn't fill it's varsity, much less JV weight classes and then we lost an entire program). What I have been saying all along is that A. going to 14 weights did not help improve numbers B. 14 weights is causing more forfeits and thus hurting the sport and individual programs.

It's also rather a bunch of BS with your "look in the mirror". I would say that ALL of us on this board love this sport and do everything we can to help improve participation and/or keep kids involved. I know that all the other coaches I've worked with, met, etc. are doing the same thing. If you don't agree, then the problem is within you, because it's a non-stop, year-round recruit fest with fun and games and camping trips and bowling and swimming and posters and highlights videos etc above and beyond the practices, and competitions. If you are blind to the efforts that coaches are making state-wide, large and small schools, then dude, open your eyes. It's happening. It just doesn't always work as well as we want.

I understand you hate all these numbers but they are showing the reality of the situation. Alternative facts don't fly in this sport.

Hate numbers? French Fries?  Really?  What I hate is trying to tie numbers to what young adults do....14 weight classes has about the right number of spans between weights....less weight classes increases cutting, does not guarantee less forfeits.
Cutting weight classes will make it harder for teams who struggle with numbers to get new wrestlers to try it....they will see the writing on the wall.  Cutting weight classes will make the strong teams stronger.  But I know you already know this....I suppose those at the top who just voted to increase the number of weight classes at the international level, must hate numbers also....be sure to include them in a copy of your rant.

[Handles II]

you brought up the french fries...

[DocWrestling]

Aarons,
I made it a goal in life never to get into a direct debate with you because you just rant!  Have to speak now.

Comparing HS wrestling weight classes to Olympic weight classes is comical.  They will never be short wrestlers.  And please then correlate that argument with the fact that we have 10 weight classes in college.  College and international wrestling could have 25 weight classes and they would still be able to fill them as the numbers would be there at that level.  But they don't have that many for numerous reasons.

I also find your look in the mirror argument offensive.  You repeatedly think that those in other communities are simply doing nothing or not enough.  A few may not be but most are trying hard.  You routinely throw coaches under the bus as they must not be doing enough.  I am sure they all are not perfect but they are trying hard and feeling pressure from administrators and parents.  There are not a bunch of new coaches just waiting to take their spots and make it better.  Everyone on this board is looking in the mirror which is why they are participating in this discussion and they can try to help their local teams but they have no way to change the sport as a whole whether it is at the state level or across the Midwest.  Even if they make their program better that have to go to duals where forfeits reign.  They cannot change the other programs.

Frankly, I can take others saying to look in the mirror but not from you.  You have done very little to help what was your home district.  While I don't fault you at all for school choicing your kids to all different schools to find better opportunities, I find it hypocritical for you to tell others to look in the mirror and help their local programs when you simply found better or more successful programs to join.  I don't doubt that you are likely helping these programs but many are struggling because kids left their programs rather than trying to build it.  For many on here it would have also been easier to just school choice to a different school.

We will never agree on this issue and I have no problems with that because I have no sure ideas that will change things for the better.  But stop calling people out like they are the true problem and not doing enough.  That arrogance has to stop.  I may regret posting this later but finally fed up.  There are people in all these communities fighting hard for their programs and they are good people and they do not need to be thrown under the bus over and over by you.  Others are offering ideas and you just say that the problem is the people leading all these programs.  I disagree!

[wrastle63]

Aarons,
I made it a goal in life never to get into a direct debate with you because you just rant!  Have to speak now.

Comparing HS wrestling weight classes to Olympic weight classes is comical.  They will never be short wrestlers.  And please then correlate that argument with the fact that we have 10 weight classes in college.  College and international wrestling could have 25 weight classes and they would still be able to fill them as the numbers would be there at that level.  But they don't have that many for numerous reasons.

I also find your look in the mirror argument offensive.  You repeatedly think that those in other communities are simply doing nothing or not enough.  A few may not be but most are trying hard.  You routinely throw coaches under the bus as they must not be doing enough.  I am sure they all are not perfect but they are trying hard and feeling pressure from administrators and parents.  There are not a bunch of new coaches just waiting to take their spots and make it better.  Everyone on this board is looking in the mirror which is why they are participating in this discussion and they can try to help their local teams but they have no way to change the sport as a whole whether it is at the state level or across the Midwest.  Even if they make their program better that have to go to duals where forfeits reign.  They cannot change the other programs.

Frankly, I can take others saying to look in the mirror but not from you.  You have done very little to help what was your home district.  While I don't fault you at all for school choicing your kids to all different schools to find better opportunities, I find it hypocritical for you to tell others to look in the mirror and help their local programs when you simply found better or more successful programs to join.  I don't doubt that you are likely helping these programs but many are struggling because kids left their programs rather than trying to build it.  For many on here it would have also been easier to just school choice to a different school.

We will never agree on this issue and I have no problems with that because I have no sure ideas that will change things for the better.  But stop calling people out like they are the true problem and not doing enough.  That arrogance has to stop.  I may regret posting this later but finally fed up.  There are people in all these communities fighting hard for their programs and they are good people and they do not need to be thrown under the bus over and over by you.  Others are offering ideas and you just say that the problem is the people leading all these programs.  I disagree!

Well stated. Easier to go to the green grass then make your own better.

[aarons23]

you brought up the french fries...

I never brought up French fries?

[aarons23]

Aarons,
I made it a goal in life never to get into a direct debate with you because you just rant!  Have to speak now.

Comparing HS wrestling weight classes to Olympic weight classes is comical.  They will never be short wrestlers.  And please then correlate that argument with the fact that we have 10 weight classes in college.  College and international wrestling could have 25 weight classes and they would still be able to fill them as the numbers would be there at that level.  But they don't have that many for numerous reasons.

I also find your look in the mirror argument offensive.  You repeatedly think that those in other communities are simply doing nothing or not enough.  A few may not be but most are trying hard.  You routinely throw coaches under the bus as they must not be doing enough.  I am sure they all are not perfect but they are trying hard and feeling pressure from administrators and parents.  There are not a bunch of new coaches just waiting to take their spots and make it better.  Everyone on this board is looking in the mirror which is why they are participating in this discussion and they can try to help their local teams but they have no way to change the sport as a whole whether it is at the state level or across the Midwest.  Even if they make their program better that have to go to duals where forfeits reign.  They cannot change the other programs.

Frankly, I can take others saying to look in the mirror but not from you.  You have done very little to help what was your home district.  While I don't fault you at all for school choicing your kids to all different schools to find better opportunities, I find it hypocritical for you to tell others to look in the mirror and help their local programs when you simply found better or more successful programs to join.  I don't doubt that you are likely helping these programs but many are struggling because kids left their programs rather than trying to build it.  For many on here it would have also been easier to just school choice to a different school.

We will never agree on this issue and I have no problems with that because I have no sure ideas that will change things for the better.  But stop calling people out like they are the true problem and not doing enough.  That arrogance has to stop.  I may regret posting this later but finally fed up.  There are people in all these communities fighting hard for their programs and they are good people and they do not need to be thrown under the bus over and over by you.  Others are offering ideas and you just say that the problem is the people leading all these programs.  I disagree!

Lol....you can think what you want about open enrollment.... But you have no clue...as far as what I have done for the sport you also have no clue.  My post have been consistent.....and will stay consistent.....show me one place I degraded a coach?  I have said great coaches don't always make great program builders....do you dispute that?  I also notice you preferred to take a personal attack on me rather than address the points I made.  I guess you just don't lime it when someone challenges your thinking. 

[aarons23]

The correlation of international number of weight classes is directly from the 3 same guys on here who have made the argument on here several times that Olympics only have 6 and college has only 10.  At least at the Olympic level they feel they are best to grow.... A sport 2 years ago they were eliminating from the Olympics.

[littleguy301]

Current world population:

7,480,316,918

It's a little creepy to watch it go up and down, knowing that those are births and deaths...


Current Wisconsin population:

5,758,000

I know that you and I are not ever going to agree on this, but I don't think adjusting the weight classes diminishes our sport. I don't think it reduces opportunities.

The national federation just sent a survey out about building wrestling, and there was a question on how many weights to take out. Apparently there are others out there that think adjusting the weights might be an option.

I saw that survey. Maybe I should just pass it along to someone that would answer it better than I would,

[littleguy301]

I find it great that on the olympic level they are increasing the numbers of weights. I agree that 2 years ago that there was talk of getting rid of it. Glad to see it gaining steam.

Though I may say that there are some interesting things that wrestling did to "brighten" up the sport. On that level they know it is all about marketing.

College level, bottom line is they are NOT going to increase the weight classes because of the money aspect. Wrestling has 9.9 scholarships and basically 25-30 man teams. You have to love wrestling to want to continue at the college level especially when the money really isnt there. Sure Iowa, Penn State and Ok State probably turn a profit but only 77? D1 programs. Basically the support isnt there for another 30-40 teams which would get more weight classes. Even in the day when there were alot more schools having wrestling the weight classes werent really different.

high school, while I understand that it is about giving kids the chance to do something they havent and getting kids more and more chances. I think that many that have been involved in wrestling have given kids more than ample chances to be a part of a youth, middle and high school teams.

Examples: finding ways to get fees paid
              giving rides and finding rides for kids
              helping with school work and grades
              dealing with more than friendly house holds
              making deals with football coaches to help support the program
              maybe paying more attention to getting kids out than the ones that are out

having FF isnt being a marketable team to alot of districts and their respective fan base.

Bottom line is something has to change because by looking at numbers alone, you can see the amount of high schools that have dropped wrestling or have co-op and the amount of kids that are not coming out.