On Guillotine, varsity numbers...

[MNbadger]

Ramjet, "Private Clubs do allot to promote this sport and to bring new wrestlers to it. I laugh when HandlesII gets on this kick because he feels that only beauracracy and Government can improve something. It is his philosophical stubbornness that does allow not allow him to see the benefit of these Clubs collaborating and organizing fun events that attract kids. Like I said they have an advantage over schools only because they are NOT ham strung by beauracracy and regulation.

Schools do have an advantage in that they have captive audience and yet cannot always get kids in the room. Why is that? Yet a business who charges to come can fill the rooms and they do not have said captive audience. So it stands to reason they are doing something right or they could not afford to keep the doors open."


Nowhere did Handles say anything about or indicate he thought bureaucracy and government could or could not improve something (I realize you are quite paranoid about such things and ignore evidence that runs contrary to your fears).
Wrestling clubs raise the level and quality od wrestling overall but do little to bring in new blood compared to school wrestling.  I do agree that likely it drives some kids out as they are not willing to do what it taks ot get to that level and that's ok.  This is happening in pther sports too, believe me my kids were serious participants in sports and I watched other kids fall off through the years.  This is why you see kids open enrolling and wrestling getting concentrated in fewer and fewer schools (the best wrestlers).  I am not making a judgement here, just pointing out what is happening.  This is the normal evolution of such things.
Now as far as your last paragraph, the clubs draw from wide areas to "fill the room".  A school will have less numbers to draw from even in the largest schools, especially considering all the options and draws kids have.  You are comparing apples to oranges here.

[ramjet]

Please Ramjet, show us the numbers of kids who have joined their HS team strictly because they were recruited by a private team to begin the sport of wrestling. List names and schools. I've never once said it hasn't happened, but I will say that it doesn't happen for the majority of wrestlers and/or teams. They simply aren't helping fill our weight classes beyond a couple handfuls of kids state-wide. And while I appreciate any additions to what we have, I'm not going to pretend like some on here that private clubs are the key to filling 14 weights. There are also plenty of witnesses saying that for one kid who joins HS wrestling because of a private club, another one or more quits the sport.

We have getyourpoints saying in one post that wrestling takes too much time and effort, too many weekends, so kids quit, and in another saying that kids should join private clubs to work harder and put in more time and weekends so they won't quit.    

I'm collecting and showing data on the number of wrestlers entered in tournaments. If you want to argue that data, fine, but please start a new thread on your topic and show the data as well.

Who is loosing the wrestlers or having a hard time filling the weights?  School teams. Yes even with open enrollment and with a concentrated group of kids to recruit from. An audience that is in the coaches midst for many hours in the day. My point is simple here, it's the program's and the lack of collaboration between teams Coaches schools etc.

One thing you will see is private clubs and organization working together for a common goal. The competition and desire for ultimate success drives division between school programs, coaches and conferences. I see the Clubs and private clubs with higher goal (business fundamentals) and that is to build thier customer base and in that quest they build the quality of wrestling. That drives them to be creative and to be goal driven and use the methodology that defines success in business models. Some of that methodology is collaboration through fun competition but ultimately working together to grow together. Good for wrestling good for the kids and good for the Clubs. Parents are drawn to this because they want their children to succeed. So they seek out what they consider to be the best way to reach that goal. Many of the kids who see success grow and continue on that path. For many kids it is defined by the expereince and the fun they can have being part of winning program. Being around an atmosphere of success and pride being identified with a group of other kids who are committed to the same goals. It's fun they like that positive feedback and hard work ensure advancement. Winning formula so as much as you may despise the idea of Wrestling as a business it has improved wrestling and you can learn from it. Schools provide excellent conduit for the same formulas but the sport is passing many of the programs by because they stick to the good olds days.

I know this tick off some folks but this is reality. Want to change wrestling want to make it better?  Then look in the mirror because that guy/gal you see has the most influence to do so.

[bigG]

As the former coach of a team that'll soon be hurting for numbers, I'm still fine with our state of wrestling. There's opportunity for all. It ebbs and flows. Same opportunity for boring ole HS kid who is still good at other sports? You bet. Still room for those who hope to excel in one sport? Yes. We might be in our best days. Yes, the old school doesn't get the numbers we had; but competition in kid-time is at an all-time high. Hunting, friends, church(not just on Sunday), music, etc. takes time just like videogames. Some are just more constructive. Wrestling, whether by a super-dedicated athlete, or part-time football player, is great. I just want those who do it to have that experience of getting grubbed and giving a grubbin'. You can't not get better as a person. Wrestlers get that; no matter how many or few on a given team. I've gotten kids who were LAW trained. Good kids. Others from our local club...good wrestlers. Let 'em wrestle for their schools and show their toughness. If they can all contribute, you got a team. Show them that, with hard work, you get opportunity.

Change the weights and how we weigh (matside might work, I dunno); but let's try to create a culture in our wrestling room of folks who represent. Love my kids; but there'll be more. I think my 2016-17 team has the best people I know on it; win or lose. I don't even coach them; and I love them to death. Great people is all we need to focus on and cultivate a group that watches each others' backs.

Think I'm gonna tell Askren to quit coaching kids privately? Heck no. Am I gonna tell my admin. that wrestling is best in the private world? No way. I like the current balance and think it will lead to growth. Concussions sure don't help. But, such is the way. Askren was coached by a school coach; and Ben can coach any kid of mine, with glee. More wrestling = better wrestling,  all three styles.

[ramjet]

Ramjet, "Private Clubs do allot to promote this sport and to bring new wrestlers to it. I laugh when HandlesII gets on this kick because he feels that only beauracracy and Government can improve something. It is his philosophical stubbornness that does allow not allow him to see the benefit of these Clubs collaborating and organizing fun events that attract kids. Like I said they have an advantage over schools only because they are NOT ham strung by beauracracy and regulation.

Schools do have an advantage in that they have captive audience and yet cannot always get kids in the room. Why is that? Yet a business who charges to come can fill the rooms and they do not have said captive audience. So it stands to reason they are doing something right or they could not afford to keep the doors open."


Nowhere did Handles say anything about or indicate he thought bureaucracy and government could or could not improve something (I realize you are quite paranoid about such things and ignore evidence that runs contrary to your fears).
Wrestling clubs raise the level and quality od wrestling overall but do little to bring in new blood compared to school wrestling.  I do agree that likely it drives some kids out as they are not willing to do what it taks ot get to that level and that's ok.  This is happening in pther sports too, believe me my kids were serious participants in sports and I watched other kids fall off through the years.  This is why you see kids open enrolling and wrestling getting concentrated in fewer and fewer schools (the best wrestlers).  I am not making a judgement here, just pointing out what is happening.  This is the normal evolution of such things.
Now as far as your last paragraph, the clubs draw from wide areas to "fill the room".  A school will have less numbers to draw from even in the largest schools, especially considering all the options and draws kids have.  You are comparing apples to oranges here.

BS rhetoric MNbadger especially your last sentence. My goodness even in a very small school you have kids willing to sit on the bench in BB or not participate in any sports the bodies are there. The participation is not I see many programs in schools doing there own thing not working together even within the Conference they are in they would rather take several FF to win dual instead of wrestle the matches they could. So please save your baloney for someone that does not really pay attention.  

You give me 10 kids who never wrestled and put them in private club and the retention will higher than if those same kids only wrestle in the school. Why? Success more attention to the sport and detail. Kids who do club or get private lessons improve quicker and endure longer in the sport. Hard to argue with success.

[ramjet]

As the former coach of a team that'll soon be hurting for numbers, I'm still fine with our state of wrestling. There's opportunity for all. It ebbs and flows. Same opportunity for boring ole HS kid who is still good at other sports? You bet. Still room for those who hope to excel in one sport? Yes. We might be in our best days. Yes, the old school doesn't get the numbers we had; but competition in kid-time is at an all-time high. Hunting, friends, church(not just on Sunday), music, etc. takes time just like videogames. Some are just more constructive. Wrestling, whether by a super-dedicated athlete, or part-time football player, is great. I just want those who do it to have that experience of getting grubbed and giving a grubbin'. You can't not get better as a person. Wrestlers get that; no matter how many or few on a given team. I've gotten kids who were LAW trained. Good kids. Others from our local club...good wrestlers. Let 'em wrestle for their schools and show their toughness. If they can all contribute, you got a team. Show them that, with hard work, you get opportunity.

Change the weights and how we weigh (matside might work, I dunno); but let's try to create a culture in our wrestling room of folks who represent. Love my kids; but there'll be more. I think my 2016-17 team has the best people I know on it; win or lose. I don't even coach them; and I love them to death. Great people is all we need to focus on and cultivate a group that watches each others' backs.

Think I'm gonna tell Askren to quit coaching kids privately? Heck no. Am I gonna tell my admin. that wrestling is best in the private world? No way. I like the current balance and think it will lead to growth. Concussions sure don't help. But, such is the way. Askren was coached by a school coach; and Ben can coach any kid of mine, with glee. More wrestling = better wrestling,  all three styles.

You are not getting it here G. My point is simple work with these clubs get the best of both worlds take the best ideas and start working together. Division is why this sport is fading working together for common goal is a formula for success. Cutting the weight classes is not a solution it is just band aide for a serious wound slows it down but it will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

[MNbadger]

You missed the point again Ramjet.  The kids in club sports are already more highly motivated THAT IS WHY THEY ARE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Just how are you going to force those newbies to go to your club?  If I get those ten kids to show up and do so regulalrly, they will become quality, winning wrestlers as well in school wrestling.
I teach in a huge school system.  We struggle for numbers in sports other than wrestling as well.  A couple of the sports that are doing quite well right now are going to struggle for numbers within the next two or three years and the drop will be drastic, believe me (like from section final quality ot not a conference win).  Wrestling is in the process of recovery after dropping middle school sports some years ago.  They are back now but it takes time.
We have plenty of quality basketballers that quit due to the fact that they are NOT willing to ride the pine or even be the sixth man.
Many of our female athletes quit if they are not on varsity, especially juniors and seniors.
As far as my last sentence it is very apt.  Please explain to us your disagreement there with my point.  Do you not see how a club draws from a largr pool of individuals, seriously?

[littleguy301]

Not doubting anyone on here one bit. 

I will say in my narrow mind that usually I see the private clubs getting kids from the schools clubs or teams when that child or parent deems it is the right time for that kid to get some extra wrestling in.

I see clubs as a huge benifit for schools, I really do!!!!!!!! The kids improve and what they take back to the wrestling room for their schools can help all!!!! Also it may help the private clubs when schools see kids take huge jumps and maybe more on the school team want to get better like the private club kids.

I guess what I am saying is I havent yet heard of a private club recruiting a kid that never wrestled, starting them from scratch and then at some point they join a school team. I havent heard of that just yet though I am not saying it hasnt happened somewhere down the line.

I have heard of private clubs directing wrestlers to certain schools though. I am sure that makes one school better and increases their numbers but the school that wrestler left, is down then in numbers.

Not saying any of Wisconsin great private school have done this, just saying I have heard at least once in my life time.

[littleguy301]

As the former coach of a team that'll soon be hurting for numbers, I'm still fine with our state of wrestling. There's opportunity for all. It ebbs and flows. Same opportunity for boring ole HS kid who is still good at other sports? You bet. Still room for those who hope to excel in one sport? Yes. We might be in our best days. Yes, the old school doesn't get the numbers we had; but competition in kid-time is at an all-time high. Hunting, friends, church(not just on Sunday), music, etc. takes time just like videogames. Some are just more constructive. Wrestling, whether by a super-dedicated athlete, or part-time football player, is great. I just want those who do it to have that experience of getting grubbed and giving a grubbin'. You can't not get better as a person. Wrestlers get that; no matter how many or few on a given team. I've gotten kids who were LAW trained. Good kids. Others from our local club...good wrestlers. Let 'em wrestle for their schools and show their toughness. If they can all contribute, you got a team. Show them that, with hard work, you get opportunity.

Change the weights and how we weigh (matside might work, I dunno); but let's try to create a culture in our wrestling room of folks who represent. Love my kids; but there'll be more. I think my 2016-17 team has the best people I know on it; win or lose. I don't even coach them; and I love them to death. Great people is all we need to focus on and cultivate a group that watches each others' backs.

Think I'm gonna tell Askren to quit coaching kids privately? Heck no. Am I gonna tell my admin. that wrestling is best in the private world? No way. I like the current balance and think it will lead to growth. Concussions sure don't help. But, such is the way. Askren was coached by a school coach; and Ben can coach any kid of mine, with glee. More wrestling = better wrestling,  all three styles.

You are not getting it here G. My point is simple work with these clubs get the best of both worlds take the best ideas and start working together. Division is why this sport is fading working together for common goal is a formula for success. Cutting the weight classes is not a solution it is just band aide for a serious wound slows it down but it will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

I like BigG thinking here. We also have to look at the point as WE are giving kids chances to get on the mat, on the field, on the court and lets not get ahead of our selfs with all this thinking.

Also, Ram, while I do think that many of the clubs DO work together and DO help the state of wrestling out alot. I cannt name a club that isnt helping the sport out in Wisconsin.

The problem that some overlook and with K.N.O.W. is addressing is the kids that ARE NOT in clubs that could have the chance to get some extra training, whether it is clubs or having some camps/clinics.

I am sure it varies in areas but I doubt less than half of the kids that body fat tested actually have wrestled in a club setting or camp/clinic situation.

The situations I see in wrestling it is becoming the haves and have not. I think in some way wrestling is eating itself from the inside out.

My advice, enjoy wrestling, have fun with it and hopefully at some point in life you give back to the sport!

[ramjet]

LG I hope you are well. I know one guy who runs many camps and runs a private for profit club but I have seen him just allow some kids in without paying because he knew they could not. It happens more than they will admit as they cannot advertise it or some may try and take advantage of thier good will.

I agree with everything you said and we should just enjoy wrestling there are some outstanding Holiday Tourneys coming up and it should be fun to watch and this is NOT the time to think about cutting weights.

I really like the idea of this KNOW it sounds like an outstanding effort and I trust if Aaron is part of it they will work hard to help all kids he has allot of passion for that and the kids.

[bigG]

As the former coach of a team that'll soon be hurting for numbers, I'm still fine with our state of wrestling. There's opportunity for all. It ebbs and flows. Same opportunity for boring ole HS kid who is still good at other sports? You bet. Still room for those who hope to excel in one sport? Yes. We might be in our best days. Yes, the old school doesn't get the numbers we had; but competition in kid-time is at an all-time high. Hunting, friends, church(not just on Sunday), music, etc. takes time just like videogames. Some are just more constructive. Wrestling, whether by a super-dedicated athlete, or part-time football player, is great. I just want those who do it to have that experience of getting grubbed and giving a grubbin'. You can't not get better as a person. Wrestlers get that; no matter how many or few on a given team. I've gotten kids who were LAW trained. Good kids. Others from our local club...good wrestlers. Let 'em wrestle for their schools and show their toughness. If they can all contribute, you got a team. Show them that, with hard work, you get opportunity.

Change the weights and how we weigh (matside might work, I dunno); but let's try to create a culture in our wrestling room of folks who represent. Love my kids; but there'll be more. I think my 2016-17 team has the best people I know on it; win or lose. I don't even coach them; and I love them to death. Great people is all we need to focus on and cultivate a group that watches each others' backs.

Think I'm gonna tell Askren to quit coaching kids privately? Heck no. Am I gonna tell my admin. that wrestling is best in the private world? No way. I like the current balance and think it will lead to growth. Concussions sure don't help. But, such is the way. Askren was coached by a school coach; and Ben can coach any kid of mine, with glee. More wrestling = better wrestling,  all three styles.

You are not getting it here G. My point is simple work with these clubs get the best of both worlds take the best ideas and start working together. Division is why this sport is fading working together for common goal is a formula for success. Cutting the weight classes is not a solution it is just band aide for a serious wound slows it down but it will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

Now get those same ten kids the money, parental commitment, and motivation to commit themselves to one sport through clubs and national tournaments and I'm sold. I get it. But is you think you're idea is the big ticket unifier/solution, you might want to hear others out. What you want is agreement with your paradigm. I agree with the division thing; but aren't you also being divisive at times?

[Handles II]

Handles ,
We are in the Fox Valley/ GB area.
My son goes to a school with strong numbers and a solid wrestling tradition. The coach is wise beyond his years, he encourages the commitment kids to get in the privet club. He works with the rest of the kids at a pace that matches there interest and skills inching up the intensity each year. He doesn't coach with a one fits all aproach.
As he says give him a few studs and he will build a bunch of 25-30 match winners around them and we will win state.
Push the ones that are wired to handle it and inspire the rest to be the best they can be.
It seems to be working out great.

That sounds great getpoints, but where in this situation is the private club recruiting brand-new wrestlers, teaching them to wrestle and having them join your HS team? This is the point you have been saying that private clubs do. Personally, I don't see it. Your explanation of the kids that are highly committed to the sport joining a private club to get extra work, while the HS coach, MS coach, and those working in the youth clubs continue to work to find new kids to join the sport and to fill the roster is exactly what I've been saying. Thank you for letting us know how it really works.

Therefore, as you just explained, private clubs aren't really helping bring new kids into the HS teams. They aren't really helping to fill our 14 weight classes. They might in a handful of cases or so, but they are helping kids that are already in the sport get better, but let's be honest, pull 5 committed studs out of 5 area high schools and work with them 3 days per week for 9 months per year, and virtually any of our state's HS coaches could help them improve. Their desire to work and learn, and for most, a natural ability (physical and/or mental) beyond that of their peers, and the willingness for parents to pay for the coaching services is what gives fuel to private clubs of any sport. That isn't at all the point of this thread however. This thread is looking at our HS teams and, at least in these two states (WI/MN), seeing that thus far in the season, we are filling about 10 weight classes on average per team .

If you and others think that private clubs are the answer to this dilemma, then please, start a thread explaining and showing data on how this is and has been improving our numbers of wrestlers across the state. I'm very eager to learn more, but thus far I'm under the opinion that private clubs are working very much as you explained above (not that there is anything wrong with that). They generally get kids already in the sport, kids that someone else already recruited and put time into teaching the basics (or more). I've asked several times for anyone to show numbers of brand-new recruits, or even examples of those kids that are now filling their HS weight classes that would have never started the sport without being recruited by a private club , but thus far nothing has been mentioned.

[Handles II]

This isn't about winning unless the sport is winning, averaging 10 wrestlers isn't winning. So from that view, I agree that private clubs are helping some kids and thus some programs.

Your 7/7 idea wasn't one that you expanded on too much simply because in your next post you quoted Jordan saying kids shouldn't have more  than a couple weeks off all year. They conflicted and off we went.

I agree that long weekends take their toll on wrestlers, coaches, and parents. I honestly think that is less of an issue with the HS wrestling season than it is with the many, many, months, and years prior to HS wrestling of being at tournaments on Saturdays and Sundays, in the spring, summer and fall, that should shoulder more of the blame.
However, I agree that maybe there is too much and it becomes a quitting point, or a "I'm not going to wrestle because of conflicts with work, family, other private sports clubs I belong to that demand my time and money...".

I look at college wrestling where 20-30 matches per year is the norm. I look at our past years where 20-30 matches was the norm. Maybe all the pushing for more, more, more has created less?

I'm still in the boat that 14 weights is probably 2 too many, and that our JV would have more action, more guys taking an extra year to learn, and our Varsity would become more competitive, perhaps more exciting, and at least, even for teams with 8-10 guys, looking closer to a "full" team for those Admin that need or want to make budget cuts.

[ramjet]

As the former coach of a team that'll soon be hurting for numbers, I'm still fine with our state of wrestling. There's opportunity for all. It ebbs and flows. Same opportunity for boring ole HS kid who is still good at other sports? You bet. Still room for those who hope to excel in one sport? Yes. We might be in our best days. Yes, the old school doesn't get the numbers we had; but competition in kid-time is at an all-time high. Hunting, friends, church(not just on Sunday), music, etc. takes time just like videogames. Some are just more constructive. Wrestling, whether by a super-dedicated athlete, or part-time football player, is great. I just want those who do it to have that experience of getting grubbed and giving a grubbin'. You can't not get better as a person. Wrestlers get that; no matter how many or few on a given team. I've gotten kids who were LAW trained. Good kids. Others from our local club...good wrestlers. Let 'em wrestle for their schools and show their toughness. If they can all contribute, you got a team. Show them that, with hard work, you get opportunity.

Change the weights and how we weigh (matside might work, I dunno); but let's try to create a culture in our wrestling room of folks who represent. Love my kids; but there'll be more. I think my 2016-17 team has the best people I know on it; win or lose. I don't even coach them; and I love them to death. Great people is all we need to focus on and cultivate a group that watches each others' backs.

Think I'm gonna tell Askren to quit coaching kids privately? Heck no. Am I gonna tell my admin. that wrestling is best in the private world? No way. I like the current balance and think it will lead to growth. Concussions sure don't help. But, such is the way. Askren was coached by a school coach; and Ben can coach any kid of mine, with glee. More wrestling = better wrestling,  all three styles.

You are not getting it here G. My point is simple work with these clubs get the best of both worlds take the best ideas and start working together. Division is why this sport is fading working together for common goal is a formula for success. Cutting the weight classes is not a solution it is just band aide for a serious wound slows it down but it will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

Now get those same ten kids the money, parental commitment, and motivation to commit themselves to one sport through clubs and national tournaments and I'm sold. I get it. But is you think you're idea is the big ticket unifier/solution, you might want to hear others out. What you want is agreement with your paradigm. I agree with the division thing; but aren't you also being divisive at times?

Nope not at all. Multiple sport participation is a must have in small Districts I encourage it. I do not think cutting weight classes will solve anything it's a short term solution for long term problem.

[DocWrestling]

The sport of wrestling is not going to have to worry much about those kids that love the sport, join private clubs, wrestle in the off-season, and grew up going to Saturday tournaments and wrestling 40+ matches as youth wrestlers.  Some may burn out but those that make it to a high school room usually stick with it.

But the sport of wrestling desperately needs to hang on to more kids that try the sport for the first time in middle to high school and try to find more of them if they want to try and fill 14 weight classes.  Problem is that most of these kids only wrestle during the season and lack experience and are not ready for varsity action anyway as underclassmen.  They are not used to the length of the season, the grind, the number of matches, the long Saturdays, wrestling over hunting and holidays, the skin infections scares, focus on weight management, and wrestling 6 days a week.  Without these kids the sport of wrestling will suffer and continue to lose teams and wrestlers.  These are the kids we need on varsity as juniors and seniors that will fill weight classes and maybe go 25-15 on the season.  Coaches and the sport itself almost need to focus more on these kids than the diehards if they want to have a successful full team.  Truth is that these kids then make the best and most dedicated wrestlers better because they will have better and more practice partners.

We are almost too focused on the state qualifiers and star youth wrestlers.  The fact that so many of these kids become so good so young it almost hurts bringing in new kids because they just get pounded on by these kids when you wrestle them in a dual on varsity

[bigG]

As the former coach of a team that'll soon be hurting for numbers, I'm still fine with our state of wrestling. There's opportunity for all. It ebbs and flows. Same opportunity for boring ole HS kid who is still good at other sports? You bet. Still room for those who hope to excel in one sport? Yes. We might be in our best days. Yes, the old school doesn't get the numbers we had; but competition in kid-time is at an all-time high. Hunting, friends, church(not just on Sunday), music, etc. takes time just like videogames. Some are just more constructive. Wrestling, whether by a super-dedicated athlete, or part-time football player, is great. I just want those who do it to have that experience of getting grubbed and giving a grubbin'. You can't not get better as a person. Wrestlers get that; no matter how many or few on a given team. I've gotten kids who were LAW trained. Good kids. Others from our local club...good wrestlers. Let 'em wrestle for their schools and show their toughness. If they can all contribute, you got a team. Show them that, with hard work, you get opportunity.

Change the weights and how we weigh (matside might work, I dunno); but let's try to create a culture in our wrestling room of folks who represent. Love my kids; but there'll be more. I think my 2016-17 team has the best people I know on it; win or lose. I don't even coach them; and I love them to death. Great people is all we need to focus on and cultivate a group that watches each others' backs.

Think I'm gonna tell Askren to quit coaching kids privately? Heck no. Am I gonna tell my admin. that wrestling is best in the private world? No way. I like the current balance and think it will lead to growth. Concussions sure don't help. But, such is the way. Askren was coached by a school coach; and Ben can coach any kid of mine, with glee. More wrestling = better wrestling,  all three styles.

You are not getting it here G. My point is simple work with these clubs get the best of both worlds take the best ideas and start working together. Division is why this sport is fading working together for common goal is a formula for success. Cutting the weight classes is not a solution it is just band aide for a serious wound slows it down but it will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

Now get those same ten kids the money, parental commitment, and motivation to commit themselves to one sport through clubs and national tournaments and I'm sold. I get it. But is you think you're idea is the big ticket unifier/solution, you might want to hear others out. What you want is agreement with your paradigm. I agree with the division thing; but aren't you also being divisive at times?

Nope not at all. Multiple sport participation is a must have in small Districts I encourage it. I do not think cutting weight classes will solve anything it's a short term solution for long term problem.

I'm with you. Still it's not debate that creates an atmosphere that hurts the sport. So long as we (prive club and public school) coach like the kids' best interests are what matters, the kids will do well; so will wrestling. Easy to say private is the way to go. But, they promote themselves through their kids' success just like any public school program. Just that schools need to include academics and behavioral expectations as a matter of course. I'm sure most clubs have something in place.

This stuff is nothing new. 10 per team doesn't knock me off kilter. Lots more things to do.