Re: heroin

[Handles II]

The main factor holding down the costs to society of these drugs IS that they are illegal and not mainstream. Even pot.
A friend was making the drunk driving vs. stoned driving argument and how much worse alcohol is, therefore pot should be legal.
I said "If pot was as legal and socially acceptable as alcohol, people would be driving to and from places like bars, restaurants, football games, etc and that number would shoot right up to match alcohol".
He sat for a moment and said "yeah, I guess I never thought about how far people drive to use alcohol. If they use at home they generally stay at home just like with pot".

I'm not against thc as a drug as it can have some redeaming medical properties, however since it's already legal in perscription form and has been since 1985, those who just want it to stoned need to say so and quit hiding behind the medical part of it.

Thank god that those other drugs are illegal and they need to stay that way. Opiods are perscribed far far to often and given in way too large of quantities, as are many antidepressents.

[DrSnide]

The main factor holding down the costs to society of these drugs IS that they are illegal and not mainstream. Even pot.
A friend was making the drunk driving vs. stoned driving argument and how much worse alcohol is, therefore pot should be legal.
I said "If pot was as legal and socially acceptable as alcohol, people would be driving to and from places like bars, restaurants, football games, etc and that number would shoot right up to match alcohol".
He sat for a moment and said "yeah, I guess I never thought about how far people drive to use alcohol. If they use at home they generally stay at home just like with pot".

I'm not against thc as a drug as it can have some redeaming medical properties, however since it's already legal in perscription form and has been since 1985, those who just want it to stoned need to say so and quit hiding behind the medical part of it.

Thank god that those other drugs are illegal and they need to stay that way. Opiods are perscribed far far to often and given in way too large of quantities, as are many antidepressents.

The one that goes under the radar a lot (my guess is because so many middle aged white ladies use it) is Benzodiazapine antidepressants like Xanax and Valium. Talk about a highly addictive drug with a really bad withdraw - possibly the worst of all of these and can kill you.  Nasty, Nasty addictive potential. 

[DrSnide]

One other observation.

Many of the problems with prescription drugs seems to be when general practice doctors start prescribing them rather than specialists. For instance about 80% of antidepressant medications are prescribed by general practice physicans rather than psychiatrists.  I'm guessing there is a similar percentage prescribing antianxiety medications.  Now due to a shortage of psychiatrists this is not like to change but I wonder it requiring further education and/or supervision by a specialist would help limit the abuses.  Or at least limit the number of refills until they have to be seen by a psychiatist or other specialist. 

Same with Pain medication, maybe be nice to have some additional training requirements or prescribing limits for those without training in addiciton etc. 

Just a thought.

[bigG]

The main factor holding down the costs to society of these drugs IS that they are illegal and not mainstream. Even pot.
A friend was making the drunk driving vs. stoned driving argument and how much worse alcohol is, therefore pot should be legal.
I said "If pot was as legal and socially acceptable as alcohol, people would be driving to and from places like bars, restaurants, football games, etc and that number would shoot right up to match alcohol".
He sat for a moment and said "yeah, I guess I never thought about how far people drive to use alcohol. If they use at home they generally stay at home just like with pot".

I'm not against thc as a drug as it can have some redeaming medical properties, however since it's already legal in perscription form and has been since 1985, those who just want it to stoned need to say so and quit hiding behind the medical part of it.

Thank god that those other drugs are illegal and they need to stay that way. Opiods are perscribed far far to often and given in way too large of quantities, as are many antidepressents.

The one that goes under the radar a lot (my guess is because so many middle aged white ladies use it) is Benzodiazapine antidepressants like Xanax and Valium. Talk about a highly addictive drug with a really bad withdraw - possibly the worst of all of these and can kill you.  Nasty, Nasty addictive potential. 

I know a few Xanax people. One gal says it "stops the shakes inside her."

I'll stick with water.

There are some strange antidepressants out there. Wish I knew more about them.

[Handles II]

The main factor holding down the costs to society of these drugs IS that they are illegal and not mainstream. Even pot.
A friend was making the drunk driving vs. stoned driving argument and how much worse alcohol is, therefore pot should be legal.
I said "If pot was as legal and socially acceptable as alcohol, people would be driving to and from places like bars, restaurants, football games, etc and that number would shoot right up to match alcohol".
He sat for a moment and said "yeah, I guess I never thought about how far people drive to use alcohol. If they use at home they generally stay at home just like with pot".

I'm not against thc as a drug as it can have some redeaming medical properties, however since it's already legal in perscription form and has been since 1985, those who just want it to stoned need to say so and quit hiding behind the medical part of it.

Thank god that those other drugs are illegal and they need to stay that way. Opiods are perscribed far far to often and given in way too large of quantities, as are many antidepressents.

The one that goes under the radar a lot (my guess is because so many middle aged white ladies use it) is Benzodiazapine antidepressants like Xanax and Valium. Talk about a highly addictive drug with a really bad withdraw - possibly the worst of all of these and can kill you.  Nasty, Nasty addictive potential. 

"Go running for the shelter of your mother's little helper". This stuff has been over prescribled for years. I agree with your assessment of general vs. specialists. Wouldln't it also be true that specialists probably have a smaller client base, and therefore could do a better job of watching for signs of addiction etc than a general practitioner?

[aarons23]

I understand and agree with the specialist vs the general practitioner...but this is a problem with our health care that increases the cost so drastically....you don't get to see one or the other....you have to see both.  Why does the general practitioner have to be seen before my wife goes to the gynecologist?  You know how many times my our family doctor had to see my son before he could be seen by different specialist?  It's crazy....with technology doctors can look at medical records pretty easy....this should eliminate the extra visits but it doesn't.

[dman]

I understand and agree with the specialist vs the general practitioner...but this is a problem with our health care that increases the cost so drastically....you don't get to see one or the other....you have to see both.  Why does the general practitioner have to be seen before my wife goes to the gynecologist?  You know how many times my our family doctor had to see my son before he could be seen by different specialist?  It's crazy....with technology doctors can look at medical records pretty easy....this should eliminate the extra visits but it doesn't.

I agree Aarons!

[DrSnide]

The problem is quite simply not enough specialists, the whole supply and demand thing.  For instance, in my market the wait to see a good (not great), established psychiatrist is about 3 months for no other reason than there not enough of them.  So who is seeing folks to make up the difference? General practice docs who may or may not have a good  background in addiction or mental health.  By all accounts this is only going to get worse not better.  I do think with tele medicine there will be more ways for specialists to consult with other physicians I know we are looking at this as a way of receiving pychiatric consultation and giving AODA consultations which may be required even more as the number od Drs and specialists in general continue to decline.

Thats why I think a more pragmatic solution in terms of psychiatry and likely medicine in general is require specific training requirements for every schedule 2 medication that includes addiction risk and signs before you can prescribe that medication.  Would also require additional training in say depression and suicide risk assessment before being able to prescribe antidepressants.  And supervision by a psychiatrist .

[DrSnide]

The main factor holding down the costs to society of these drugs IS that they are illegal and not mainstream. Even pot.
A friend was making the drunk driving vs. stoned driving argument and how much worse alcohol is, therefore pot should be legal.
I said "If pot was as legal and socially acceptable as alcohol, people would be driving to and from places like bars, restaurants, football games, etc and that number would shoot right up to match alcohol".
He sat for a moment and said "yeah, I guess I never thought about how far people drive to use alcohol. If they use at home they generally stay at home just like with pot".

I'm not against thc as a drug as it can have some redeaming medical properties, however since it's already legal in perscription form and has been since 1985, those who just want it to stoned need to say so and quit hiding behind the medical part of it.

Thank god that those other drugs are illegal and they need to stay that way. Opiods are perscribed far far to often and given in way too large of quantities, as are many antidepressents.

The one that goes under the radar a lot (my guess is because so many middle aged white ladies use it) is Benzodiazapine antidepressants like Xanax and Valium. Talk about a highly addictive drug with a really bad withdraw - possibly the worst of all of these and can kill you.  Nasty, Nasty addictive potential. 

"Go running for the shelter of your mother's little helper". This stuff has been over prescribled for years. I agree with your assessment of general vs. specialists. Wouldln't it also be true that specialists probably have a smaller client base, and therefore could do a better job of watching for signs of addiction etc than a general practitioner?

I can't speak for all specilties but I think in terms of booked hours per week psychiatists tend to be much busier.  In terms of total caseload maybe. How often do people see their general physician?  I see mine once a year for a check up and my endocrinolgist for my diabetes twice a year so specialists often see people more often.  So my guess is general practioners at least see there folks less often.  Which is why patients should be seen for every schedule 2 refill except for things like chronic pain which isn't expected to chang- as established by a specialist.

[dman]

Funny how MNbadger has disappeared after saying alcohol is worse than heroin.

[MNbadger]

I haven't disappeared.  You (and others?) missed the point.  You are on here going crazy about heroin. The likelihood of you, your son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, etc. getting hooked on and somehow injured, killed, etc. by the effects heroin as compared to the effects of alcohol is infinitesimal.  We don't want to look at alcohol because we like it and we are used to using it.  Heroin is a lot of work.  By sheer numbers/dollars there is no comparison.
I don't remember who asked would you rather your son or daughter used alcohol, heroin, or marijuana.  Yes, heroin is worse in this comparison.  I would prefer they chose the weed (I am drug free, only used alcohol but haven't for over 25 years).
I have innumerable stories of tragedy with immediate family, extended family, students and their families, athletes and their families in regard to alcohol.  None to date in regard to heroin.
I disappear on here because no matter the subject or debate, too many on here ignore facts and believe what they believe regardless of facts.

Thanks for calling on me though!

[Houndhead]

I haven't disappeared.  You (and others?) missed the point.  You are on here going crazy about heroin. The likelihood of you, your son, daughter, brother, sister, friend, etc. getting hooked on and somehow injured, killed, etc. by the effects heroin as compared to the effects of alcohol is infinitesimal.  We don't want to look at alcohol because we like it and we are used to using it.  Heroin is a lot of work.  By sheer numbers/dollars there is no comparison.
I don't remember who asked would you rather your son or daughter used alcohol, heroin, or marijuana.  Yes, heroin is worse in this comparison.  I would prefer they chose the weed (I am drug free, only used alcohol but haven't for over 25 years).
I have innumerable stories of tragedy with immediate family, extended family, students and their families, athletes and their families in regard to alcohol.  None to date in regard to heroin.
I disappear on here because no matter the subject or debate, too many on here ignore facts and believe what they believe regardless of facts.

Thanks for calling on me though!

Pot, meet Kettle!

[MNbadger]

So, you are saying what I said wasn't so?  There is no comparison between the effects on society (economic, social) of alcohol as compared to heroin.  This is factual, look it up, compare the numbers.

[Houndhead]

So, you are saying what I said wasn't so?  There is no comparison between the effects on society (economic, social) of alcohol as compared to heroin.  This is factual, look it up, compare the numbers.

No, I'm saying you ignore facts just as much as anyone else. Of course, you only choose to ignore facts when they don't fit your opinion. And then you get mad and say your done posting. And then you come back.

[MNbadger]

You mean facts like That the deficit has been halved since Obama took office?  No mention of this, no credit given (to be sure, I don't feel he deserves much credit nor blame for any of the economic woes we are experiencing).  Most of what we are going through is due to policies in place for some time, some official, some not.

Or the claims of private ed. being better than public, not supported by facts, just opinion.  When evidence is given showing this, silence and it doesn't change the minds of those believing otherwise.  I get it, people don't want to think they were wrong about things.  
Remember, a third of republicans in LA. are unhappy with how Obama reacted to hurricane Katrina....

I don't deny spending has gone up under Obama.  I just marvel at how much hatred there is toward him when really it was worse under Reagan and many remember him as wonderful.  It is just incongruent thinking.