De Pere... the real story

[onwisconsin]

Woody,

I blame De Pere for being in non compliance.

I blame another school for waiting until after the last dual meet to inform De Pere of their non compliance.

I blame the WIAA for the process they followed in making 2 rulings (one before regionals and one 2 days before sectionals).

I blame another school for not accepting the WIAA's initial ruling and calling other schools to round up support, to go back to the WIAA, to encourage them to reverse the initial decision.

As I see it, adults screwed up 4 times (logistically, procedurally, and 2x ethically) and the kids (who made no mistakes) are affected the most.

[wraslfan]

Yes, as a sign of good sportmanship, the school (Pulaski) that informed De Pere they were out of compliance, could have easily informed De Pere any time prior to the morning after their last dual.   However ... they chose not to do the right thing.  Helped them get a 106 pounder to state ... so they are probably proud of themselves.

Well from your last post to this one. You blame the WIAA first, then you blame a school for reporting. Which is it?

Both are to blame, one for reporting it when they did, one for completely mishandling and completely over reacting.

[woody53]

Woody,

I blame De Pere for being in non compliance.

I blame another school for waiting until after the last dual meet to inform De Pere of their non compliance.

I blame the WIAA for the process they followed in making 2 rulings (one before regionals and one 2 days before sectionals).

Adults screwed up 3 times and the kids (who made no mistakes) are affected the most.

I can only comment on the third point. If not all the information is confirmed before an event. The athlete is allowed to complete. What did the WIAA do wrong?

[padre]

Woody,

I blame De Pere for being in non compliance.

I blame another school for waiting until after the last dual meet to inform De Pere of their non compliance.

I blame the WIAA for the process they followed in making 2 rulings (one before regionals and one 2 days before sectionals).

Adults screwed up 3 times and the kids (who made no mistakes) are affected the most.

I can only comment on the third point. If not all the information is confirmed before an event. The athlete is allowed to complete. What did the WIAA do wrong?

Also...wouldn't this be an important enough decision that board members would actually attend the appeal?  Much easier not to look into the faces of the real "victims" and do it over the phone I guess.

What info were they missing Woody?

And did they find out the new info Wednesday because if I'm right De Pere was notified Wednesday night or Thursday?  It's cut and dry.

Also...how important of a decision must there be to have the board members actually attend the meeting for the appeal.  Much easier to do it over the phone I guess than look the real "victims" in the face.

This is why I wonder about the whole court preceding...guessing the board wasn't there as they weren't at the appeal.  Guessing a couple lawyers for a few minutes?

Pretty easy to see a school(s) waited until they finished their schedule to fill their own agenda.  Of course they went over the limit...but pretty shady when you know it and don't show them their mistake for what?  A kid getting to state that may never really feel they deserved it?

[onwisconsin]

Woody,

You and I can just agree to disagree. Have fun at the tourney.

[maggie]

 ......go south young man, south !...

[Ivan Stankowski]

The rules are the rules and they generally include protocol for enforcement. Maybe this is an opportunity to change how those rules are enforced but I have a feeling that some of the people that are criticizing the WIAA for enforcing the rules would do the exact same thing the WIAA did if their jobs were actually on the line.

As people do on here, +1

In the real world, people don't have their careers ended, or get fired for working 6 or 12 minutes of overtime that they self report. (That is a perfect real world equivalent of this infraction) So yes, I would have voted to allow the kids to wrestle and proudly stood behind my decision and defended it to whoever I had to answer to. (Which for the WIAA is no one) How anyone can defend this decision is beyond me, but to each his own.  

In a union shop people are disciplined for working before or after scheduled times, and that is fact, self reported or not

[bulldog]

The rules are the rules and they generally include protocol for enforcement. Maybe this is an opportunity to change how those rules are enforced but I have a feeling that some of the people that are criticizing the WIAA for enforcing the rules would do the exact same thing the WIAA did if their jobs were actually on the line.

As people do on here, +1

In the real world, people don't have their careers ended, or get fired for working 6 or 12 minutes of overtime that they self report. (That is a perfect real world equivalent of this infraction) So yes, I would have voted to allow the kids to wrestle and proudly stood behind my decision and defended it to whoever I had to answer to. (Which for the WIAA is no one) How anyone can defend this decision is beyond me, but to each his own.  

In a union shop people are disciplined for working before or after scheduled times, and that is fact, self reported or not

And in the "real world" people do lose there jobs for breaking the rules. sad to say there are times in the "real world" people lose their jobs when others break the rules...

[wraslfan]

The rules are the rules and they generally include protocol for enforcement. Maybe this is an opportunity to change how those rules are enforced but I have a feeling that some of the people that are criticizing the WIAA for enforcing the rules would do the exact same thing the WIAA did if their jobs were actually on the line.

As people do on here, +1

In the real world, people don't have their careers ended, or get fired for working 6 or 12 minutes of overtime that they self report. (That is a perfect real world equivalent of this infraction) So yes, I would have voted to allow the kids to wrestle and proudly stood behind my decision and defended it to whoever I had to answer to. (Which for the WIAA is no one) How anyone can defend this decision is beyond me, but to each his own.  

In a union shop people are disciplined for working before or after scheduled times, and that is fact, self reported or not

Well, that is not surprising, but if their career was ended or they were fired over that, why be in a union? That would not be the discipline in any company I've ever worked for unless you had a long list of other issues. So you agree with the WIAA not letting these kids wrestle due to a mistake by their coach and AD?

[wraslfan]

The rules are the rules and they generally include protocol for enforcement. Maybe this is an opportunity to change how those rules are enforced but I have a feeling that some of the people that are criticizing the WIAA for enforcing the rules would do the exact same thing the WIAA did if their jobs were actually on the line.

As people do on here, +1

In the real world, people don't have their careers ended, or get fired for working 6 or 12 minutes of overtime that they self report. (That is a perfect real world equivalent of this infraction) So yes, I would have voted to allow the kids to wrestle and proudly stood behind my decision and defended it to whoever I had to answer to. (Which for the WIAA is no one) How anyone can defend this decision is beyond me, but to each his own.  

In a union shop people are disciplined for working before or after scheduled times, and that is fact, self reported or not

And in the "real world" people do lose there jobs for breaking the rules. sad to say there are times in the "real world" people lose their jobs when others break the rules...

No kidding! You have to use some perspective. They do not get fired for working an additional 6 minutes unless they have a long list of other things they've done wrong. I'll ask you as well, do you think these kids should have had their season and in some cases their career ended over a decision their coach made? If you do, we'll have to disagree on that then. 

[Ivan Stankowski]

NO I never said I agreed with the decision at all, Cannot imagine being in the middle of that mess.

[Barou]

You do know that this went before a Judge, right. And he decided the out come. The WIAA followed the rules.

The wiaa had an opportunity to make a decision to not discipline innocent kids BEFORE it went to a judge. The wiaa was the last thing standing to protect the kids that literally everyone agrees was not responsible for the infraction.

That being said, woody I respect you for your commitment to the state wrestling tournament. The best state tournament in Wisconsin in my opinion. Obviously, I disagree with your position that the wiaa had no other option than ending the season for 10 de pere student athletes but you're a stand up guy and you continue to represent yourself on the forum. A very sincere "thank you" for volunteering to make this weekend great for the athletes and the fans.

Best of luck wrestlers!!! I'm able to attend tomorrow nights session. As a d3 guy it will be my first Thursday night.  In the words of Bart Scott......"can't wait!!!!".

[bigG]

The rules are the rules and they generally include protocol for enforcement. Maybe this is an opportunity to change how those rules are enforced but I have a feeling that some of the people that are criticizing the WIAA for enforcing the rules would do the exact same thing the WIAA did if their jobs were actually on the line.

As people do on here, +1

In the real world, people don't have their careers ended, or get fired for working 6 or 12 minutes of overtime that they self report. (That is a perfect real world equivalent of this infraction) So yes, I would have voted to allow the kids to wrestle and proudly stood behind my decision and defended it to whoever I had to answer to. (Which for the WIAA is no one) How anyone can defend this decision is beyond me, but to each his own.  

In a union shop people are disciplined for working before or after scheduled times, and that is fact, self reported or not

I work in a union environment and our bosses praise the heck out of people for their 10-20 hours OT every week. I also set up apprenticeships with unionized construction companies. Overtime is a big deal to those folks.

I don't know what the right move would be for De Pere, but, as a  jailer, I tall people who've made mistakes all the time that if they didn't follow the law, it's on them. That said, these are HS young men and (potentially)women. Just boot the coach's matside privs. for state and be done. I tend to be softer on kids, though.

[Micah]

Not sure if the WIAA made the right decision or not, but a line does have to be drawn at some point about following the rules.

The issue I can't wrap my head around is that if another program knew the DePere schedule was in potential violation before the violation happened, why did they not pick up the phone and make a call to DePere?  Instead of waiting to try and catch them in a violation.  If this did happen it is just bad form, I would like to think that at this level programs would be willing to help each other out to avoid potential land mines and move wrestling forward in Wisconsin.

I do not think it is good practice to rely on help from others but technicalities like this can easily be prevented if programs inform each other of potential violations before they happen.

[roughandtough]

Not sure if the WIAA made the right decision or not, but a line does have to be drawn at some point about following the rules.

The issue I can't wrap my head around is that if another program knew the DePere schedule was in potential violation before the violation happened, why did they not pick up the phone and make a call to DePere?  Instead of waiting to try and catch them in a violation.  If this did happen it is just bad form, I would like to think that at this level programs would be willing to help each other out to avoid potential land mines and move wrestling forward in Wisconsin.

I do not think it is good practice to rely on help from others but technicalities like this can easily be prevented if programs inform each other of potential violations before they happen.

What if De Pere has been wrestling the same schedule for multiple years (which was an illegal schedule) and said school notified them previously and then the next year when they continued to wrestle the illegal schedule notified them when they did.  Does that change your thinking?