De Pere... the real story

[Handles II]

 

I don't care if De Pere was wrong! Kaukauna and whatever the other school that told are PATHETIC!
[/quote]

Sigh. The "Snitches get stitches" mentality. We teach our kids to not do wrong, and to report when someone else is doing wrong, and we have adults teaching the opposite. That's a shame.

[DocWrestling]

Couple of things.  I found it interesting that it was said that the WIAA went to trackwrestling to check results.  What if the team did not enter anything on trackwrestling?

I think a match count is a great way.

I think the WIAA should then mandate that every JV and varsity match is entered into trackwrestling within three days of the event.  They could even mandate that weights are entered.  Go the whole way in terms of documentation.  Better for keeping track, better for transparency and better for fans.

I think the WIAA should also mandate that all scores and statistics in other sports should be entered on sport specific web sites, most would be wissports.net.

Coaches can complain they don't want this work but it should come with the job to verify fairness and just as important for fans.  Easy to find someone to enter information and then coach just needs to trust that person or doublecheck it is correct.

We are at that point with expectations of technology and WIAA needs to mandate it.  I am sure they would for wrestling if the coaches association backed it.

[Barou]

I'm in complete agreement with Dave B.

Other sports get a lot more exposure of late. BB season has been extended. Volleyball, baseball/softball and even track.  But wrestling is still stuck in the 70's on competition. 

The rule is still a rule, and needs to be enforced equally across the board, but...the rule needs to be changed.

Rules should be enforced "fairly" not necessarily "equally" unless the infraction is 100% identical which isn't the case here and is rarely ever the case.  If the WIAA has no room for discretion then we don't need "professionals" to operate the organization.  They could have given an alternative disciplinary measure that did NOT include ending the seasons of the student athletes.  Saying they "had to" or agreeing they "had to" is small minded thinking.....period.  Could have applied numerous ways to discipline the school/program without hammering on the kids.  EVERYONE involved including the WIAA said the kids had nothing to do with it.  Then don't discipline the KIDS!!! Unbelievable, how we don't have consensus on this from wrestling people on this forum.  How about probation?  How about next year De Pere loses the ability to wrestle in 2 multi-team events?  How about De Pere is not eligible to host a neutral site WIAA play-off competition for 2 years?  Highly paid, educated, professional adults absolutely failed the student athletes of De Pere.  There were alternatives.  IMO, this is worse than their sportsmanship memo and that's saying something.

[bigG]

Maybe enough people boycott the tournament then it won't be the elite tournament that it is!  And bulldog Kaukana and the other team strategically told the WIAA! And I do hope this shows people to mind their own business! Just PATHETIC!

Yeah isn't it just pathetic of kaukauna to follow the rules. But it's not pathetic that depere can't follow the rules hmm.

Kaukauna follows the rules....Ha that's  fresh!
Ask some of thier former wrestlers about them following the skin fold rules! 😂😂😂😂

Like what's an example of them breaking the skin fold I'd like for you to share. If you know this about them.

Still waiting H. Hogan. You posted this. Please provide an example.

[thequad]

Does the WIAA have to answer to anyone? I have asked this question several times, but it gets deleted or I get no answers!

[DocWrestling]

Does the WIAA have to answer to anyone? I have asked this question several times, but it gets deleted or I get no answers!

Only the AD's but the AD's are overwhelmed with their own schools and have no time to "fight" or organize.  It is not like they have another option and say we are not joining?

As far as I know Wausau East is the first school I have seen say "screw you WIAA".  They requested of the Valley Football Association conference.  The WIAA said no.  They said "screw you" then and we are just playing an independent schedule.  Their penalty is that they can never participate in football playoffs now.  There was supposed to be fallout with all their other sports but it sounds like because this was a football only conference they were then able to remain in the Wisconsin Valley conference (might have been able to join a different conferene with Merrill and Lakeland, etc.?) for other sports and I think those sports can compete in playoffs.

So now the VFA only has 15 teams for football so it has been a nightmare for teams to find that one non-conference game each year especially with a D1 conference with pretty good football.

[wraslfan]

Does the WIAA have to answer to anyone? I have asked this question several times, but it gets deleted or I get no answers!

The answer is no. Like Doc said, they answer to AD's, but AD's have no other choice to turn to, so I would think they have to be very careful with any criticism or complaints. The WIAA has absolute power over the entirety of HS athletics in WI. If you do not bow down to them, you do not compete in the state tournament series. Period. All this complaining (from me and others) will result in nothing changing...they don't have to change anything. They are a monopoly.   

[thequad]

Does anyone know how they got to be so powerful? Does this mean that they can set a price on what it takes to join?

[rl77]

Does the WIAA have to answer to anyone? I have asked this question several times, but it gets deleted or I get no answers!

The answer is no. Like Doc said, they answer to AD's, but AD's have no other choice to turn to, so I would think they have to be very careful with any criticism or complaints. The WIAA has absolute power over the entirety of HS athletics in WI. If you do not bow down to them, you do not compete in the state tournament series. Period. All this complaining (from me and others) will result in nothing changing...they don't have to change anything. They are a monopoly.   

There is always a choice. The WIAA is a members represented entity. If you have a complaint you should take it up with your school's administration. If someone wants to go into competition with the WIAA I say go for it. Trust me if you do you will end up the same way. Bylaws will have to be adopted followed by rules of competition and and a group of people in charge of administration of all that stuff. Someone breaks a rule it will have to be enforced and then disagreement will begin. One team in the new group finds a way around a rule..... you get my drift.

[MNbadger]

+1

Good morning.  There are multiple layers to this story.  The truth is always somewhere in between.   I know how badly everyone feels for the athletes.  Athletic disciplinary action always affects kids whether they are in high school or college.  I just wish to clarify and add one solution to your posts.
   The WIAA does not have the manpower to approve or manage schedules.  It is not their job. 
   Asst. Director Wade Labecki has information we are not privy to and the timing of him receiving information is known only to him.   
   The rules are laid out and it is up to the coaches and AD's to set appropriate schedules that follow the WIAA regulation.
   The coach has the responsibility to make sure kids participate in the correct number of events, quarters, halves, periods depending on the sport.   As a former coach, this was ALWAYS my responsibility.  We worked with 9 duals and 5 multi which included any JV tourneys that you may schedule.
    With 7 and 7 duals and multi events, double and triple duals, conference events, etc., scheduling has become slightly more confusing but manageable.  If these events are exceeded, there is a consequence.  If an organizational rule is broken, the team should expect to pay the penalty and it is clearly stated to all membership schools what the consequences are.

    A solution:   Go to a straight MATCH COUNT per individual wrestler.  In our sport, it makes sense as many schools need to search out double and triple duals for travel and to obtain matches for the athletes.  This would allow for each team to build a schedule that fits their number of athletes best.
    Count each individual match on JV and Varsity the same.   WWCA leaders, please be bold and let's all work to KEEP Wisconsin Wrestling Great.

[MNbadger]

They are a monopoly likely because they are not getting rich like so many on here think (the money involved is not enough to foster any competition).  Schools belong for good reason, the tournament series, common rules, expectations, care of student-athletes, etc.  This and other state athletic organizations are YOU and the schools you belong to.  So much more than I see on the Guillotine website I see folks going after the WIAA.  I don't get it.  Do you think they are siphoning money off to somewhere?  I'll tell you not a chance.  The WIAA and others like it are under incredible scrutiny from member schools. 

Does the WIAA have to answer to anyone? I have asked this question several times, but it gets deleted or I get no answers!

The answer is no. Like Doc said, they answer to AD's, but AD's have no other choice to turn to, so I would think they have to be very careful with any criticism or complaints. The WIAA has absolute power over the entirety of HS athletics in WI. If you do not bow down to them, you do not compete in the state tournament series. Period. All this complaining (from me and others) will result in nothing changing...they don't have to change anything. They are a monopoly.   

[bigG]

"The WIAA has absolute power over the entirety of HS athletics in WI." No, just school sponsored athletics. Just saying; in wrestling, and many other sports, the WIAA is their school sanctioned events.

[DocWrestling]

Their competition are the coaches association.  I don't think it would be that difficult to create a sport specific board to copy the good, get rid of the bad, and manage a sport and run a state tournament series.  Imagine wrestling keeping all of its money and profits for the good of wrestling!

The WIAA does not mandate what sports or how many sports a school has to offer but it seems that if the school joins the WIAA it is for all schools.

So my question is can a school be in the WIAA for some sports and not others.  That seems to be the technicality.  We are no longer in the WIAA for middle school sports for many reasons.  Many schools don't even offer wrestling so why can't a school be in the WIAA for every other sport but not wrestling if something else was formed?

The WIAA tries to keep the rules congruent across sports and it does not always work.  Imagine a board of 25 head coaches, 5 parent reps, and 5 AD's for a 35 person board making all decisions on wrestling.  Imagine if they voted on the Depere situation and there was transparency and we knew the vote was 20-15 and we knew who voted on each side?

[woody53]

But you are all forgetting about the Advisory Council, and the Board of Control. It is not just the Executive Office in Stevens Point. The individuals in the office are not the only ones making decisions.

[DocWrestling]

But you are all forgetting about the Advisory Council, and the Board of Control. It is not just the Executive Office in Stevens Point. The individuals in the office are not the only ones making decisions.

I realize that but that is the easiest to reproduce and none of that is sport specific.

C'Mon Woody!  The coaches assoication could hire you and pay you thousands of dollars to run Woody's state tournament.

I understand that the WIAA has the job nobody wants and is never going to be noticed for all their good and people only talk about them when they are upset but I think the advisory council at the very least has to be sport specific and I think it should be transparent.  You cannot find who is on the Board of Control or Advisory Council very easily.  The WIAA should understand that they serve the schools but also the communities, parents, and fans.  They absolutely should issue a public statement on every ruling outlining the vote and what rules were broken, etc.