My D1 Preseason Team Rankings

[missinghome]

He was there already last year. Went there his freshman year. I'm not saying that he did anything wrong just saying it is exactly the same thing as people are bashing the coop for. Matter of fact if you coop you get the good and the bad kids if you open enroll you just get the good ones. I don't think you can print names on here (or should for that matter) but once again I don't blame a kid for doing it not bashing your program either just pointing out there is no difference. I would be willing to bet that almost ALL of the successful program today have a least 1 open enrolled kid on the team. inappropriate term3 I've even seen posts on here saying "where are they going to go to high school"

[aspan43]

Open enrolling is not the exact same thing.  For it to even be similar a group of wrestlers from one school would have to hatch a plan with the program of another school to all open enroll.  There are obvious and significant differences.   An individual student and his family deciding to enroll at a different school with a strong program where he will receive better coaching is not the same as two schools combining to artificially create a more successful team.

No one is saying that co-ops are a bad thing when appropriately applied.  In my mind they should be used to bring together two or more schools that are no longer competitive to hopefully make one team that is.  In this case two schools that are competitive came together to create a team immediately state ranked on this very website.  That fact alone means they didn't need to co-op.  Their argument is that in the future they're looking at declining numbers.  Why not wait to co-op until  the numbers are actually a problem?  How is Greendale going to revive its program by wrestling at Whitnall?  Why not co-op with the closer Greenfield HS?  How much was influenced by the fact that a Greendale wrestler is related to a Whitnall coach?  None of this quite passes the smell test.

It's funny that a previous poster on here said that people should stop whining and work harder to improve their programs to defeat a tougher opponent.  That sounds like great advice that these two programs should have followed.

[Pheasant 1984]

Why don't all you complainers start your own threads! Co-op or open enrollment? Are they fair? Sounds like a better place to air out your opinions instead of here!

[missinghome]

So I guess if they 8 kids from Greendale would just have just "opened enrolled" then what you are saying is you would be fine with it right?

[EIUwrestler1]

I guess there is just no dragging this thread back on topic.

[buc65]

I guess there is just no dragging this thread back on topic.

The topic was for "Preseason" rankings.  We are now in season, so the original topic should be finished anyways.

[zukes]

I have been reading this thread and I truly don't understand why the co-op is such a bad thing.

If I am correct there are already a multiple coops in this conference (Cudahy - St Francis, New Berlin Ike - New Berlin West, Wauwatosa East - Wauwatosa West). Is the complaint that the Whitnall - Greendale is a bad one?  If I remember correctly Greendale was mediocre at best having a 2-6 dual meet record last year (didn't Greendale coop with Thomas More last year?)  Why is it not a good thing that the kids get to wrestle on a pretty good team?  Should they be relegated to mediocrity because it is inconvenient to one team?

A poster used terms/phrases such as "hatch" "doesn't pass the smell test", this is wrong.  The question was asked why not coop with Greenfield?  Did they Greendale ask Greenfield and Greenfield declined? (I am thinking the answer to that is yes).  People are presenting themselves of arbiters of this situation.  I believe there is a governing body to rule on these things and they seemed it was OK for the coop to go through.

Speculation and innuendo is never good for this sport and it hurts the kids the most.  Our sport thrives on competition!  A wrestler should never back down from an opponent.  They always take the mat with the expectation of competing. 

If these kids have an opportunity to be successful as individuals and as a team when the alternative was to be on teams that would have suffered through the season, then I think it was not only a good thing but the right thing to do.

[aggressive]

OK. So you want to keep going with this. Then let me tell you what I've learned. There was great opposition for the New Berlin and the Tosa co-ops and much of it came from Whitnall and Pewaukee. Coaches in D1 schools should be able to build teams in their own schools. Six or seven Greendale wrestlers took Varsity positions from Whitnall kids so they could put this team together. Win the right way.

[aspan43]

For everyone coming to the defense of Whitnall, let me ask a question.  How do you think Whitnall and the rest of the conference would feel if Greendale decided to co-op with Pewaukee?  I'm assuming you'd be fine with it.

[bigG]

What do you suggest as a remedy to this pressing issue?

I don't know any of the background knowledge of this deal; but you seem to think it's an injustice. What would make it just to you?

[zukes]

It's not that I am defending Whitnall, it's just the only con argument I have heard is that Pewaukee doesn't like it. Rather than have a team forfeit half of its matches, they decided a coop was the way to go. As for who they coop with, that really isn't up to Pewaukee, it's up to Greendale. This what they chose, man up, compete and beat them. Otherwise this does sound a lot like sour grapes. 

[aggressive]

Manning up is building your program. Sour grapes is co-oping instead because you can't win without it. The co-op beat South Milwaukee last week, 62-6. That may have been a competitive dual for both Greendale and Whitnall had they not co-oped.
Big G, the remedy is recruit and sustain if you are a D1 school. Greendale said they had 25 kids out at the beginning of last season. Where did they go?

[zukes]

Ok then I would expect the same behavior to every coop, T-shirts and all, otherwise it's hypocritical and petty

[aspan43]

It's not that I am defending Whitnall, it's just the only con argument I have heard is that Pewaukee doesn't like it. Rather than have a team forfeit half of its matches, they decided a coop was the way to go. As for who they coop with, that really isn't up to Pewaukee, it's up to Greendale. This what they chose, man up, compete and beat them. Otherwise this does sound a lot like sour grapes. 

1. You are defending Whitnall
2. Of course Pewaukee doesn't like it... neither does any other team in the conference... and if/when Whitdale knocks any other teams out of the post season they're really not going to like it.
3. Who's forfeiting half their matches?  Greendale had more non-senior wrestlers at last years conference tournament than Pewaukee.
4. Ultimately who they co-op with shouldn't be up to Greendale either.  It should be up to the WIAA.
5. I love the "man up and compete" line when that is the exact opposite of what these two programs did.  Especially when you're directing it at Pewaukee, one of the smallest schools in a conference they have dominated for years as a stand alone.  A team that made it to the state finals last year.  A team that enters and is competitive in some of the toughest tournaments in the state.  And they do it the right way.  Because of this string of success the team, and especially the seniors, take great pride in conference championships.  If they lose because the other team worked harder or was more skilled, so be it.  But if they were to lose because some grownups got together and picked new teams that's not ok. So call it sour grapes if you want.

Nothing is going to change at this point.  My only hope is that WIAA understands that this was a mistake and an abuse of the co-op, and in the future there is a little more scrutiny.

[Dizzy]

It is just Pewaukee. The conference athletic directors voted and only 1 "no" vote (Pewaukee}
The conference Principals voted and again it was 12-1 in favor with only Pewaukee as the only no vote.
Both school boards voted unanimously after the Greendale board had postponed the vote to allow
more time for any opposition. It then went to the WIAA and passed there.