Injury Default as a Loss?

MahonDog37 · February 19, 2018, 08:59:31 PM

I have a question regarding an Injury Default. Our guy got hurt in semi's but won the match. Couldn't wrestle the finals. Injury Defaulted the match. If he didn't step on the mat for that match does it count as a loss? I've tried to look it up but no luck. Thanks

fastnfurious · February 19, 2018, 09:08:50 PM

If he did not step on the mat it should not be counted as a loss.

MahonDog37 · February 19, 2018, 09:34:05 PM

Quote from: fastnfurious on February 19, 2018, 09:08:50 PM
If he did not step on the mat it should not be counted as a loss.

That is what I thought also. Thanks

chuckref · February 20, 2018, 07:47:04 AM

Wrong, he injury defaulted, it's a loss.

Chuck

SP · February 20, 2018, 07:50:11 AM

I think you have to default out of event to not get a loss. Guy gets hurt, finishes match but can't go next match. He can default out of event without a loss. If he defaults a match and stays in the tournament then he takes the loss.

DocWrestling · February 20, 2018, 08:08:07 AM

My impression.

If you never step on the mat, you cannot lose by injury default. It should be entered as forfeit or medical forfeit- not sure how they are different in terms of rules. Either way it is not a loss but the other guy gets a win for the forfeit. This match never even started

An injury default occurs when he was on the mat and was injured in that specific match and could not continue. This match is stopped after it had begun.

The question might be different if he were to forfeit out of one match and then continue to wrestle later. The rules might then say you have to take a loss for that forfeit? But I have honestly never seen that happen.

Most guys that have to forfeit are done for the tourney and then those are not losses

FinalWord · February 20, 2018, 08:12:08 AM

Quote from: DocWrestling on February 20, 2018, 08:08:07 AM
My impression.

If you never step on the mat, you cannot lose by injury default. It should be entered as forfeit or medical forfeit- not sure how they are different in terms of rules. Either way it is not a loss but the other guy gets a win for the forfeit. This match never even started

An injury default occurs when he was on the mat and was injured in that specific match and could not continue. This match is stopped after it had begun.

The question might be different if he were to forfeit out of one match and then continue to wrestle later. The rules might then say you have to take a loss for that forfeit? But I have honestly never seen that happen.

Most guys that have to forfeit are done for the tourney and then those are not losses

This is the correct interpretation.

bud · February 20, 2018, 09:38:57 AM

At the Cedar Grove sectional there was a wrestler that Medical forfeited in the semi's only to come back and wrestle two more matches, take 3rd. and qualify for state. I'm not concerned if he took a loss for the M forfeit, but rather the thinking on his part and or the rules pertaining to that decision. There appeared to be nothing medically wrong with him as he looked great in his last two matches only an hour or so after the medical forfeit. I'm old school and thought once you forfeit you were done!

DocWrestling · February 20, 2018, 09:53:59 AM

Quote from: bud on February 20, 2018, 09:38:57 AM
At the Cedar Grove sectional there was a wrestler that Medical forfeited in the semi's only to come back and wrestle two more matches, take 3rd. and qualify for state. I'm not concerned if he took a loss for the M forfeit, but rather the thinking on his part and or the rules pertaining to that decision. There appeared to be nothing medically wrong with him as he looked great in his last two matches only an hour or so after the medical forfeit. I'm old school and thought once you forfeit you were done!

In the old days guys would just go out there and basically lay down on their back to save energy for a wrestleback or something

MahonDog37 · February 20, 2018, 01:48:12 PM

I emailed the WIAA and Wade Labecki said that if he didn't step on the mat it shouldn't be a loss. Then he said that we couldn't change it on Trackwrestling for state because "it automatically counts it as a loss." So round and round we go.

It's not that big of a deal. But if you've ever run a tournament on Trackwrestling you know that it only takes 2 to 3 clicks to change someones record. Meaning it is pretty easy to do. But that's ok.

Thanks everyone for the responses.

CoachH32 · February 20, 2018, 03:51:07 PM

If you are listed as Injury Default it counts as a loss, even if you do not step on the mat. However, if you Medical Forfeit it does not count as a loss. This has happened to many over the past years with Trackwrestling. The default in Trackwrestling is Injury Default and counts as a loss. I am not sure if Medical Forfeit is an option or not in Trackwrestling, I do not think it is. I have had your exact scenario happen two separate times to two different wrestlers. One at the Sectional Final where he injury defaulted and then again in the Wrestleback he did not step on the mat and was automatically Injury defaulted. This counted as two loses. The other was at the State Tournament with a skin condition on Saturday during weigh-ins. I had to be at each mat to ensure it was marked as Medical Forfeit so it did not count against our wrestlers overall record. This came directly from three WIAA members while we were on the State tournament floor. I have not looked at the rule book in a few years but I cannot imagine this ruling would have changed.

DocWrestling · February 20, 2018, 04:10:35 PM

Medical forfeit is an option in trackwrestling.

It is pretty easy to understand the difference between an injury default and a forfeit but not all table workers know. Any tourney director can change that very easily in two minutes.

What is not clear to me is if there is a difference in forfeit vs medical forfeit.

In terms of tourneys we have always used forfeit for any kid that missed weight, sick, or never wrestled. I suppose a forfeit could be because a kid did not report to the mat in time or simply did not want to wrestle a guy or a guy that has been disqualified? In college this can happen when two teammates don't want to wrestle each other. We use medical forfeit when the kid wrestled, completed the match but was injured and they came to the head table and said they were withdrawing. Or sometimes one match is an injury default because the kid was hurt in the match and then he cannot continue so the next match is a medical forfeit. But it is not like the tourney director is verifying the wrestler was injured?

Does the rule book discern between a forfeit and a medical forfeit?

CoachH32 · February 20, 2018, 04:29:27 PM

Again, I have not seen a rule book in a few years but here is what I remember.

Forfeit - A Team is not able to fill the weight class with a student athlete for a dual meet or tournament.
Injury Default - While competing in the match the student athlete was injured and had to withdraw from the match.
Medical Forfeit - There was a match scheduled usually in a tournament setting and the student athlete had to withdraw for medical reasons after the weigh-ins have concluded but before the match started.

obviously not the exact verbiage but my take on the meanings from what I remember.

SP · February 20, 2018, 07:31:01 PM

So what if he had to wrestle back for second? Would he have wrestled? If yes, it is a loss for the default. In this case he did not have a wrestleback. I would say that it should count as a loss because there was a possibility of a wrstleback. Wade is not correct to say if you do not step on the mat it is not a loss. It is not that simple. You can default any match if you want. If you stay in the tournament it counts as a loss.

If I enter a 16 man tournament and win my first two matches I am in the semis. I know I can't win in the semi so I default. I then wrestle the third place match and win. My record in not 3-0, it would be 3-1.

CoachH32 · February 20, 2018, 09:27:07 PM

QuoteSo what if he had to wrestle back for second? Would he have wrestled? If yes, it is a loss for the default. In this case he did not have a wrestleback. I would say that it should count as a loss because there was a possibility of a wrstleback. Wade is not correct to say if you do not step on the mat it is not a loss. It is not that simple. You can default any match if you want. If you stay in the tournament it counts as a loss.

If I enter a 16 man tournament and win my first two matches I am in the semis. I know I can't win in the semi so I default. I then wrestle the third place match and win. My record in not 3-0, it would be 3-1.

In the first scenero I described my wrestler was in the finals but actually was hurt in the semi's. We had a agreement with the other finalist and his coaching staff and the officials to step on the mat for the finals shake hands start the match and then injury default the match with no contact. We did this to ensure a injury default or medical forfeit would not knock us out of the tournament. The officials were unsure if he was unable to compete in the finals if he would be allowed to place 2nd in the event he did not need a wrestleback. So to be safe this is what we all decided to do. During the wrestleback match he took a medical forfeit cause he could not compete which finished him in 3rd not qualifying for the state tournament. Tough break for an outstanding wrestler and student athlete.

In the second scenero my wrestler was in the semifinals of the state tournament and lost. We then came back Saturday morning for weigh-ins where the WIAA physician on site checking skin found a small spot on his arm and would not allow him to compete. We had discussions with Wade on various topics surrounding this matter and in the end, we medical defaulted three matches ending in 6th place. Another tough break for an outstanding wrestler and student athlete.

These sceneros are where I learned the difference between injury default and medical forfeit.

Hope this helps, good luck to all this weekend, should be an exciting 3 days!