How to fix the referee shortage problem.

[DocWrestling]

Honestly I think to become an official you have to...
1) Fill out the forms
2) Have any AD sign the forms
3) Pay the fee if out of high school

Voila! You are a ref.  I did it right out of college and I don't remember even taking a test but they must. Could be different now.

We get many kids WIAA certified to ump baseball games and they have to take a test but otherwise it is that easy.

[LCWrestlerDad]

For 5 years I have coached our area youth wrestlers and every year we attend a few tournaments. For safety reasons I will not take our youth wrestlers to tournaments that use HS wrestlers as referees.

The wrestling clubs that use HS wrestlers for referees should provide training. This training should be focused on safety, illegal holds and potential dangerous situations.

There have been many times that the HS wrestler referee is more concerned about calling the pin and not checking or knowing that pinning move is legal. On numerous occasions I have seen illegal headlocks used as a pinning move. After the pin has been called or the match is over I causally walk over to the scores table and point it out that the headlock must include an arm. Usually the referee will says I didn't see it and thanks for pointing out. I have also been told that they didn't know that move was illegal. One time a HS wrestler referee actually argued with me that a headlock did not require having an arm.

It is a fact that our youth wrestlers have experienced more injuries and being choked at tournaments that use HS wrestlers for referees.

As a youth wrestling coach, I doesn't bother me if a referee misses points or makes a wrong call this happens with certified referees. But when safety and illegal holds are overlook that is when I become concerned.

[MARSHDOC]

For 5 years I have coached our area youth wrestlers and every year we attend a few tournaments. For safety reasons I will not take our youth wrestlers to tournaments that use HS wrestlers as referees.

The wrestling clubs that use HS wrestlers for referees should provide training. This training should be focused on safety, illegal holds and potential dangerous situations.

There have been many times that the HS wrestler referee is more concerned about calling the pin and not checking or knowing that pinning move is legal. On numerous occasions I have seen illegal headlocks used as a pinning move. After the pin has been called or the match is over I causally walk over to the scores table and point it out that the headlock must include an arm. Usually the referee will says I didn't see it and thanks for pointing out. I have also been told that they didn't know that move was illegal. One time a HS wrestler referee actually argued with me that a headlock did not require having an arm.

It is a fact that our youth wrestlers have experienced more injuries and being choked at tournaments that use HS wrestlers for referees.

As a youth wrestling coach, I doesn't bother me if a referee misses points or makes a wrong call this happens with certified referees. But when safety and illegal holds are overlook that is when I become concerned.

Your concern about a wrestlers safety is very important and I agree officials should have some sort of training to recognize potentially dangerous holds and outright illegal holds.

As a counter to your post, however, I expect an official to allow a pin and or nearfall to be scored if there is not any potentially dangerous or illegal hold.  I have seen on a few occasions referee's stop nearfall and pins because the wrestler being turned whimpers in agony just as they are being turned.

Getting pinned often hurts and if all is legal the wrestler getting the pin should not be deprived of his/her victory because his/her opponent complains of pain or inability to breath etc...

In HS (mid to late 80's) our coach showed us a film of a college wrestler nicknamed the 'king of cradles'.  I, unfortunately, don't remember the wrestlers' name.  To make a long story short, the wrestler said and I paraphrase... 'I don't pin any of my opponents, they pin themselves.  Either from an inability to breath, lack of oxygen to the brain, or being locked up in a legal hold that is too painful to fight free'. 

Big G, do you remember VanDuser showing us this video?  I wish I remember that wrestlers' name. 

[LCWrestlerDad]

As a counter to your post, however, I expect an official to allow a pin and or nearfall to be scored if there is not any potentially dangerous or illegal hold.  I have seen on a few occasions referee's stop nearfall and pins because the wrestler being turned whimpers in agony just as they are being turned.

Getting pinned often hurts and if all is legal the wrestler getting the pin should not be deprived of his/her victory because his/her opponent complains of pain or inability to breath etc...

How is that a counter to my post? No where did I say I opposed to a pin being called with a LEGAL hold.

None of my concerns have to do with wrestlers whimpering to get out of a a legal pinning hold. I won't even get into this topic because this situation still pisses me off!!!

At the last tournament, one of my youth wrestlers asked me about what to do if he can't breath because of a hold. I told him right out don't put yourself in that situation. If the hold is illegal the referee will stop it. If you are being pinned and it hurt so much, don't fight it and get pinned. But if you want to be a successful wrestler you never give up.

[MARSHDOC]

As a counter to your post, however, I expect an official to allow a pin and or nearfall to be scored if there is not any potentially dangerous or illegal hold.  I have seen on a few occasions referee's stop nearfall and pins because the wrestler being turned whimpers in agony just as they are being turned.

Getting pinned often hurts and if all is legal the wrestler getting the pin should not be deprived of his/her victory because his/her opponent complains of pain or inability to breath etc...

How is that a counter to my post? No where did I say I opposed to a pin being called with a LEGAL hold.

None of my concerns have to do with wrestlers whimpering to get out of a a legal pinning hold. I won't even get into this topic because this situation still pisses me off!!!

At the last tournament, one of my youth wrestlers asked me about what to do if he can't breath because of a hold. I told him right out don't put yourself in that situation. If the hold is illegal the referee will stop it. If you are being pinned and it hurt so much, don't fight it and get pinned. But if you want to be a successful wrestler you never give up.

I didn't mean my reply to your post to be an implication that you condoned whimpering.  I was merely making a point that there are times when legal holds are called off because a referee's response to the wrestler getting turned complaining.  I've seen it happen many times.  I had it happen to me in the sectional finals when I had double leg takedown on my opponent to his back.  He cried 'contact, contact, contact...' and the ref gave me 2 points TD and no credit for back points as my opponent may have lost a contact lens.  This issue pisses me off as well. 
I've also seen some excellent officials that don't fall for this. 
It all goes to the fact that there needs to mandatory training for referees in this sport.
 

[bkraus]

Fill out the application, pay the fee to the WIAA, watch the video and take/pass the rules test.  That is all it takes.

With that being said, there are Officials Associations that have training all the time.  Our association has monthly training and we go over rules changes, scenarios, etc so that we are on the same page.  There is also the clinic at the WWCA meeting in November for training.  I also highly recommend new officials reach out to the seasoned ones as mentors.  Use them as assistant referees so they can learn from the seasoned officials.  Mentoring is huge to become a better official.

[MARSHDOC]

Honestly I think to become an official you have to...
1) Fill out the forms
2) Have any AD sign the forms
3) Pay the fee if out of high school

Voila! You are a ref.  I did it right out of college and I don't remember even taking a test but they must. Could be different now.

We get many kids WIAA certified to ump baseball games and they have to take a test but otherwise it is that easy.

Is it really that simple?  If it is it needs to be changed.  I'd pay a fee to become certified and properly trained if I had to.  With what you said is needed what is to stop a person that never wrestled a day in his life from becoming a referee? 

[MARSHDOC]

Fill out the application, pay the fee to the WIAA, watch the video and take/pass the rules test.  That is all it takes.

With that being said, there are Officials Associations that have training all the time.  Our association has monthly training and we go over rules changes, scenarios, etc so that we are on the same page.  There is also the clinic at the WWCA meeting in November for training.  I also highly recommend new officials reach out to the seasoned ones as mentors.  Use them as assistant referees so they can learn from the seasoned officials.  Mentoring is huge to become a better official.

If you have specific information and don't mind, please send a private message regarding training etc.  If I do it I want to do it right.  I can take the abuse from parents and coaches, I'm married after all.  Enter Sam Kinison...

[bulldog]

What exactly does it take to become a wrestling official? 

If I do it I'll be getting some people pretty angry.  Any wrestler to take one step backward (not countering an immediate shot) would get an immediate caution for stalling.  Any wrestler backing straight up from the tie-up position would get the same.  Or have the rules in folkstyle wrestling changed to allow this type of wrestling?

The best officiating that I have seen thus far this year was at a middle school tournament when local college wrestlers were officiating.

I remember in HS that was the rule...at least our coach told us that. When the shrunk to the smaller circle the "rule" I was told was that your first step had to be either circling or towards your opponent. If it was backwards you got dinged with stalling. Now I never see that called

[bkraus]

Back in the day when you had to start on the outer edge of the 10' circle, you had to take first step forward.  But I think that rule has been eliminated with the "new" starting lines.

[bigG]

Honestly I think to become an official you have to...
1) Fill out the forms
2) Have any AD sign the forms
3) Pay the fee if out of high school

Voila! You are a ref.  I did it right out of college and I don't remember even taking a test but they must. Could be different now.

We get many kids WIAA certified to ump baseball games and they have to take a test but otherwise it is that easy.

Is it really that simple?  If it is it needs to be changed.  I'd pay a fee to become certified and properly trained if I had to.  With what you said is needed what is to stop a person that never wrestled a day in his life from becoming a referee? 

Perhaps the fact that a large group of people are gonna treat him like a bike without a seat when he starts screwin' up.  OUCH!

[bulldog]

Back in the day when you had to start on the outer edge of the 10' circle, you had to take first step forward.  But I think that rule has been eliminated with the "new" starting lines.

"Back in the day"...dang...I am NOT that old. I don't know what the rule actually was but the year when they went to the "new" starting lines our coach told us our first step HAD to be in or we would get dinged with a stalling call. I actually think he told us it would cost us a point. Maybe that was his way to make us be aggressive. If so it worked. We all went at the opponent off the whistle

[thequad]

As for the whimpering rule. I saw it called in the state finals. I think the ref should ask the wrestler if he or she needs the match stopped and decide by the response.

[MNbadger]

You must be a big sumo fan then, correct?

What exactly does it take to become a wrestling official? 

If I do it I'll be getting some people pretty angry.  Any wrestler to take one step backward (not countering an immediate shot) would get an immediate caution for stalling.  Any wrestler backing straight up from the tie-up position would get the same.  Or have the rules in folkstyle wrestling changed to allow this type of wrestling?

The best officiating that I have seen thus far this year was at a middle school tournament when local college wrestlers were officiating.

[bigG]

For 5 years I have coached our area youth wrestlers and every year we attend a few tournaments. For safety reasons I will not take our youth wrestlers to tournaments that use HS wrestlers as referees.

The wrestling clubs that use HS wrestlers for referees should provide training. This training should be focused on safety, illegal holds and potential dangerous situations.

There have been many times that the HS wrestler referee is more concerned about calling the pin and not checking or knowing that pinning move is legal. On numerous occasions I have seen illegal headlocks used as a pinning move. After the pin has been called or the match is over I causally walk over to the scores table and point it out that the headlock must include an arm. Usually the referee will says I didn't see it and thanks for pointing out. I have also been told that they didn't know that move was illegal. One time a HS wrestler referee actually argued with me that a headlock did not require having an arm.

It is a fact that our youth wrestlers have experienced more injuries and being choked at tournaments that use HS wrestlers for referees.

As a youth wrestling coach, I doesn't bother me if a referee misses points or makes a wrong call this happens with certified referees. But when safety and illegal holds are overlook that is when I become concerned.

Your concern about a wrestlers safety is very important and I agree officials should have some sort of training to recognize potentially dangerous holds and outright illegal holds.

As a counter to your post, however, I expect an official to allow a pin and or nearfall to be scored if there is not any potentially dangerous or illegal hold.  I have seen on a few occasions referee's stop nearfall and pins because the wrestler being turned whimpers in agony just as they are being turned.

Getting pinned often hurts and if all is legal the wrestler getting the pin should not be deprived of his/her victory because his/her opponent complains of pain or inability to breath etc...

In HS (mid to late 80's) our coach showed us a film of a college wrestler nicknamed the 'king of cradles'.  I, unfortunately, don't remember the wrestlers' name.  To make a long story short, the wrestler said and I paraphrase... 'I don't pin any of my opponents, they pin themselves.  Either from an inability to breath, lack of oxygen to the brain, or being locked up in a legal hold that is too painful to fight free'.  

Big G, do you remember VanDuser showing us this video?  I wish I remember that wrestlers' name.  

Wade Shalles was the King of Cradles. Dude seemed a little off-kilter, too. Personally, I am a bit guilty, when I ref, of worrying more about the pin than the crying.