What valuable lesson are we teaching the Wrestlers of De Pere High School?

[wraslfan]

No surprise to me at all that the WIAA blew it. They do literally EVERY time. They give a rats behind about what is best for the student athletes...and proved it yet again with this decision. Their ONLY concern is that they collect their money and get to continue collecting their inflated salaries. This decision does not hurt anyone within that "regime." This was an easy decision for them, they don't even have to think. They have no competition and answer to no one but themselves. No matter how many things they get wrong, it does not matter! Is someone going to fire them? It's the perfect gig (for them). I sincerely doubt they even care about the athletes in this situation. This was actually convenient for them, they got to wield their power, and make themselves feel relevant. A freaking monkey could have made this decision. An organization that was truly looking out for student athletes would never have.    

[rl77]

This stinks for the De Pere wrestlers. I agree, they did what they were told to do and now are paying the price for it. And the WIAA is enforcing a rule regarding a violation that was self reported. The WIAA does hold some responsibility in this...or at least should. I have personally tried to talk to the WIAA regarding interpretations of rules/rule violations. Their standard answer is "members of the WIAA is self policed" and "if you have a concern to bring it to your coach or AD".

So they sit back and let the members determine how to interpret the rules and if something hits the fan the WIAA swoops in and acts like everyone should know the rule. Reading 10 pages on this forum somewhat indicates the rules are vague in many cases. Setting up potential mistaken rule interpretations. I have banged my head against the WIAA wall so many times I think they may have me on a "watch list"...and every time I have walked away with no answers and more frustrated.

I don't know if this is a case of misinterpreting a rule or simply an honest mistake. The problem is the WIAA will simply react to this and do nothing to ensure in the future the chances of happening again are greatly reduced.

I do think in this case the WIAA was in a no win situation. If they let the kids wrestle there would be a ton of screaming people yelling about rule violations and the WIAA not upholding their penalties. If they don't let the kids wrestle they are being unfair to the athlete who was only following their coaches instructions.

Again I do not care to defend the WIAA but there is a chain of command so to speak when going about these things. Nothing has pissed me off more than when my supt. or principal brings an issue to me with out the person coming to me, the coach, first. If you want answers start at the bottom and work up. The coaches and AD's are responsible for the rules. We take tests and that is part of the deal. All the WIAA wants is those people that are affiliated with the WIAA to contact them and then share the info with the people involved. The WIAA is not a public entity so is not responsible to publish any meeting notes. I know people do not like that but there are so many privacy issues that with kids it almost make it impossible.  

[DocWrestling]

Trackwrestling has been updated.  Some weight classes have added a new wrestler and others have a bye.  I am assuming that in some cases the 5th place finisher from the regional declined to wrestle so it is a bye.

Two Depere wrestlers are listed as wrestling as of now-  It was mentioned in a prior thread that they will not wrestle so must be going to forfeit?
170 Tommy Kratz- sophomore
195 Travis Lueck- Senior


I guess I don't under stand why at 160 they would make the bye the #1 seed that replace Turriff.  Why not bump everyone up and make the bye be the 4th place finisher.  That better keeps the integrity of the bracket and balanced better?

[foose4]

I feel terrible for all of the De Pere wrestlers and their growing wrestling community.   Right or wrong decision, you will not be able to convince me the WIAA handled this correctly when:
1.  They did have all the information required prior to regionals.
2.  De Pere had a written agreement allowing them to participate and placing them on "probation", whatever that even means.

Shame on the WIAA for how they handled this.



 

According to article in Appleton Post Crescent, they did not get all the information the first time. 

The initial review the WIAA had conducted on Feb. 3 using De Pere’s team and individual schedule concluded that the team and its wrestlers were within the 14-meet limit for the regular season when it identified varsity and junior varsity events.

The review process involved using the website TrackWrestling.com, which most teams use to keep statistics. The WIAA has also used TrackWrestling.com for its postseason tournaments for several years.

The WIAA reviewed with De Pere administrators that the team had competed in six multi-team events at the varsity level, which was one under the limit for multi-team meets. The team had wrestled in eight duals.

However, the individual match schedules for the wrestlers did not account for some of the multi-team meets they had participated in. That’s what was found this week when the WIAA was inquired to review the eligibility of the team’s wrestlers again.

One of De Pere’s multi-team meets which was omitted on the individual schedules for many wrestlers was the Sauk Prairie Invite on Jan. 7.

Many of De Pere’s sectional qualifiers also had competed in what was listed as a junior varsity event for the team at the Dirk Sorenson Door County Classic on Jan. 28. from Appleton Post Cresent article

[DocWrestling]

That is a bit interesting in that maybe there was not complete full disclosure by the school and full self-reporting?  Sounds like the WIAA was doing the investigation.

[woody53]

I feel terrible for all of the De Pere wrestlers and their growing wrestling community.   Right or wrong decision, you will not be able to convince me the WIAA handled this correctly when:
1.  They did have all the information required prior to regionals.
2.  De Pere had a written agreement allowing them to participate and placing them on "probation", whatever that even means.

Shame on the WIAA for how they handled this.



 

According to article in Appleton Press Gazette, they did not get all the information the first time.  

The initial review the WIAA had conducted on Feb. 3 using De Pere's team and individual schedule concluded that the team and its wrestlers were within the 14-meet limit for the regular season when it identified varsity and junior varsity events.

The review process involved using the website TrackWrestling.com, which most teams use to keep statistics. The WIAA has also used TrackWrestling.com for its postseason tournaments for several years.

The WIAA reviewed with De Pere administrators that the team had competed in six multi-team events at the varsity level, which was one under the limit for multi-team meets. The team had wrestled in eight duals.

However, the individual match schedules for the wrestlers did not account for some of the multi-team meets they had participated in. That's what was found this week when the WIAA was inquired to review the eligibility of the team's wrestlers again.

One of De Pere's multi-team meets which was omitted on the individual schedules for many wrestlers was the Sauk Prairie Invite on Jan. 7.

Many of De Pere's sectional qualifiers also had competed in what was listed as a junior varsity event for the team at the Dirk Sorenson Door County Classic on Jan. 28. from Appleton Post Cresent article

Thank you for posting this.

[woody53]

That is a bit interesting in that maybe there was not complete full disclosure by the school and full self-reporting?  Sounds like the WIAA was doing the investigation.

Yes !

[aarons23]

That is a bit interesting in that maybe there was not complete full disclosure by the school and full self-reporting?  Sounds like the WIAA was doing the investigation.

Yes !

So you think its ok to punish kids for something they had nothing to do with it.  If I get a speeding ticket they should fine you.....

[ramjet]

Interesting to me that DePere School broke the rules but the WIAA are the bad guys for enforcing the rules? Some of folks are amazing. So use the process and work to change the rule but to change it midstream is a slippery slope that none of you would handle the postion on the Board of the WIAA very well. I bet the WIAA and Wade feel just as bad and bet they tried every way to resolve this without circumventing the written rules but if the News Paper Article is true then allot of you look a little foolish with your emotional filled unfounded arguments. My goodness the rule is ok until they enforce it? Do you know how foolish that argument is? Unbelievable......

It stinks for those that wrestling team and those affected by the inexcusable actions of those adults.....

[DocWrestling]

That is a bit interesting in that maybe there was not complete full disclosure by the school and full self-reporting?  Sounds like the WIAA was doing the investigation.

Yes !

So you think its ok to punish kids for something they had nothing to do with it.  If I get a speeding ticket they should fine you.....

That is the way it works for good or bad.  One kid gets bad grades or somehow competes in in a few football games while he is ineligible.  The WIAA rules that those wins need to be forfeited.  Team now has losing record and misses the playoffs.  Again penalizes the entire team.

The WIAA ruled in favor of 334 teams and against 1. Someone has to be the bad guy when a rule is obviously and blatantly broken.  In every instance something happens that is extremely hurtful to a few for the greater good of all.  Because of this all coaches and AD's are going to do a better job with their schedules.  Because of this some rule changes may even come about?

And this comes from me who is not very fond of the WIAA at all and the way it operates.  I honestly think each sport would be better managed by a coaches council made up of specific coaches in that sport and then maybe a few AD's and parents.

[woody53]

Interesting to me that DePere School broke the rules but the WIAA are the bad guys for enforcing the rules? Some of folks are amazing.

Thank you Ram.

[maggie]

 it said, "other teams"?  MEANING COACHES?   called with complaints forcing the WIAA to make a ruling....But, it was self reported on Feb 3rd and they were still allowed to wrestle on the 11th...so  SOMEONE MADE A CALL on the matter! and it should have be a done deal then....is the WIAA saying they didn't have Significant time to make a call on the matter?, But yet did?.. and if that is the case, they should be allowed to continue wrestling as they did last weekend...or was a call made and the right personnel not notified?..if that would be the case, then the WIAA Member? or members who made the call at the time should stand up and Take the responsibility for the actions taken  on the matter at the time....and what I find really mind bowing is the fact that, SOME "Coaches" would actually care enough to take the time to make sure that a few kids get yanked from the sport they love in the more precise time of there short high school careers  if in fact  "Other Teams" means coaches....just cant see one doing that ...a mistake was made, no harm came from it, move on to SEC !........  LOOSE LIPS, SINK SHIPS !      

[aarons23]

That is a bit interesting in that maybe there was not complete full disclosure by the school and full self-reporting?  Sounds like the WIAA was doing the investigation.

Yes !

So you think its ok to punish kids for something they had nothing to do with it.  If I get a speeding ticket they should fine you.....

That is the way it works for good or bad.  One kid gets bad grades or somehow competes in in a few football games while he is ineligible.  The WIAA rules that those wins need to be forfeited.  Team now has losing record and misses the playoffs.  Again penalizes the entire team.

The WIAA ruled in favor of 334 teams and against 1. Someone has to be the bad guy when a rule is obviously and blatantly broken.  In every instance something happens that is extremely hurtful to a few for the greater good of all.  Because of this all coaches and AD's are going to do a better job with their schedules.  Because of this some rule changes may even come about?

And this comes from me who is not very fond of the WIAA at all and the way it operates.  I honestly think each sport would be better managed by a coaches council made up of specific coaches in that sport and then maybe a few AD's and parents.

not even close in comparison.

[onwisconsin]

I agree, thanks for posting.   However, that does not coordinate with the version I was told (I understand I may have been told incorrectly ... or maybe not).

Still don't like it, just like I didn't like it when this happened to Pulaski softball and Westosha volleyball.  Rule needs to be changed.  Punish the program, not the kids.

[madeyson]

Interesting to me that DePere School broke the rules but the WIAA are the bad guys for enforcing the rules? Some of folks are amazing. So use the process and work to change the rule but to change it midstream is a slippery slope that none of you would handle the postion on the Board of the WIAA very well. I bet the WIAA and Wade feel just as bad and bet they tried every way to resolve this without circumventing the written rules but if the News Paper Article is true then allot of you look a little foolish with your emotional filled unfounded arguments. My goodness the rule is ok until they enforce it? Do you know how foolish that argument is? Unbelievable......

It stinks for those that wrestling team and those affected by the inexcusable actions of those adults.....

Don't think I have heard too many on here saying that there shouldn't be a punishment for the crime. However - the punishment should fit the crime - and penalizing the kids for something they are not responsible for is irresponsible. I will admit I do not know how the rule is written in terms of the punishment for a violation - but what lesson are you teaching a senior who has wrestled for the past 10-12 years with the dream of wrestling at the Kohl Center and because of no fault of his own that dream is crushed?

Let' also remember this - high school athletes make $0 - 99.9% of them are doing it for fun - and to teach them life lessons. What did we just teach them - someone else breaks a rule and I have to pay the consequences? As a manager if one of my employees breaks a rule I have to deal with the consequences - in NO SITUATION do they have to deal with the consequences if I break a rule.