D2 145

[Quack]

Woody, can the off mat official call the on mat official over and talk to him about a call, even if he isn't asked?

I am not saying he wasn't asked in this situation, but he must have had some input to change the call.

[Fabulous Falcons]

Nothing will change the outcome of these matches. . . they were exciting to watch. . .however on the lighter side of things. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqo2m_InYe0

[woody53]

The Off Mat Official does have the ability to discuss issues with the On Mat official without being asked. It is totally with the On Mat Official to make the call.

[marshman]

I could not see clear enough to make a call on Krueger, but I've said before he likes the edge of the mat. Maybe this referee knew that?

Wow, arguably the worst post of all time.

[maggie]

Why was that a bad post in your mind marshman? I thought it shed a little light on the call...what's your take?..a lot of wrestlers like the side oft had nest to wrestle on..no big deal

[marshman]

Why was that a bad post in your mind marshman? I thought it shed a little light on the call...what's your take?..a lot of wrestlers like the side oft had nest to wrestle on..no big deal

The majority of high school wrestlers like the edge of the mat. Quad has called out Krueger for his style the last two weeks, I just don't think you should single out a high school athlete like that, let alone one of Krueger's talent. To make it worse, he questions the integrity of the official in the state finals. Does one honestly think the official would make a call like that because of some preconceived notion? Quad's post sheds absolutely no light on the call, it simply shows that some people will never come out of the dark. I saw the match in person and I, nor any of the people that I talked to seemed to understand it. Not taking anything away from the Southern Door kid, he was as tough as any wrestler that I watched all year. Those Seymour sectional wrestlers made us all proud.

[Quack]

Not sure on if I would have said the ref made that call because of this style of using the edge of the mat. But that is some kids style, they use it to keep the other kid from running from them. Not a bad thing. I have seen many kids do it. Greheck(sp?) was one of the best edge of the mat wrestlers I ever watched. Drove me nuts to watch.

Some refs do know the styles of the kids they are reffing. Maybe it does play into how they ref a match, maybe it doesn't. I would think if I were a ref it might play in a little on how I call a match.

[ramjet]

Not sure on if I would have said the ref made that call because of this style of using the edge of the mat. But that is some kids style, they use it to keep the other kid from running from them. Not a bad thing. I have seen many kids do it. Greheck(sp?) was one of the best edge of the mat wrestlers I ever watched. Drove me nuts to watch.

Some refs do know the styles of the kids they are reffing. Maybe it does play into how they ref a match, maybe it doesn't. I would think if I were a ref it might play in a little on how I call a match.

He better not of.

Everyone wants an explanation to better understand what the call was and why?

The explanation may or may not change anyone's mind as to the interjection of himself into the match.

But I for one am curious as to what he was calling and why?

[thequad]

Just mentioned some possibilities that's all. JMO

[UTB]

Still looking for a link to view this match.  WI Fox has the other finals but not the D2-145.  Your help is appreciated.

[Flatstanley]

I agree with ramjet. . . I would like to understand the call also.  I saw the match and I thought the call for stalling was on the Southern Door wrestler for not bringing Krueger back to the mat or putting in the leg while standing? Krueger was up and scrambling 3 or 4 times prior to the call.  He wasn't just lying there.  He was trying to escape, not stall.  The score was 0-0.

When they awarded a point to Englebert, I couldn't believe it? I thought when they stopped the match to make sure the ref raised the right color, they would correct the error.  It is too bad they just didn't let them wrestle and resolve it for themselves.  Unfortunately, the scoring will always be in question, for some people, and it isn't fair to either wrestler who worked hard all year for this match.   

[Jim Shoe]

Just mentioned some possibilities that's all. JMO

I saw the match and thought the call was ridiculous!  It is almost impossible to tell when in a stand-up position whether a wrestler is being shoved off the mat or the wrestler in the front position is going off the mat on his own.  It definitely was not obvious and in no way should any mat official determine the outcome of a match in that position.  I'm all for calling an obvious stall or fleeing of the mat but that wasn't the case and it cost Krueger from OF a chance at a repeat state championship.  We all should've witnessed a great OT match, not let a cheesy call determine the state champ!
  I also witnessed a match that resulted in another wrestler from Coleman losing by way of a referee who took determining the outcome of the match in his own hands.  Coleman's 145 wrestler was in the quarterfinals against SVE and ahead 1-0 with about 23 seconds left in the match when the mat official warned him for stalling when riding a spiral ride.  The warning gave a restart to the SVE wrestler which was fine, but with 2 seconds to go in the match and the Coleman kid riding a spiral half the official penalized the Coleman wrestler for stalling which tied the match 1-1.  SVE got the takedown and won in an OT that should've never happened.

[padre]

Just mentioned some possibilities that's all. JMO

I saw the match and thought the call was ridiculous!  It is almost impossible to tell when in a stand-up position whether a wrestler is being shoved off the mat or the wrestler in the front position is going off the mat on his own.  It definitely was not obvious and in no way should any mat official determine the outcome of a match in that position.  I'm all for calling an obvious stall or fleeing of the mat but that wasn't the case and it cost Krueger from OF a chance at a repeat state championship.  We all should've witnessed a great OT match, not let a cheesy call determine the state champ!
  I also witnessed a match that resulted in another wrestler from Coleman losing by way of a referee who took determining the outcome of the match in his own hands.  Coleman's 145 wrestler was in the quarterfinals against SVE and ahead 1-0 with about 23 seconds left in the match when the mat official warned him for stalling when riding a spiral ride.  The warning gave a restart to the SVE wrestler which was fine, but with 2 seconds to go in the match and the Coleman kid riding a spiral half the official penalized the Coleman wrestler for stalling which tied the match 1-1.  SVE got the takedown and won in an OT that should've never happened.

Bad call at 145 against Seewald.  We want our kids to ride and if they do try to ride for a whole period they will always get a stalling call...and Seewald was making efforts to get out to the side with the spiral...hated to see that happen.

As far as Krueger...quad may be right...there are times in the last few weeks that I would have dinged him with a fleeing but the call was never made...this one was not good though.  However, Jacob deserves the title hands down....he has been nothing but dominant the whole year and I honestly think he wins that match no matter what calls are made.

[bigoil]

 I didn't see those last few seconds so I'm not sure the picture of fleeing people are describing. I'm thinking if he was able to flee he must have been close enough to establishing separation. I'm trying to figure out why would a guy on the bottom flee the mat in a 0-0 match with time running out? Was he in danger or just trying to get a fresh restart?

[padre]

I didn't see those last few seconds so I'm not sure the picture of fleeing people are describing. I'm thinking if he was able to flee he must have been close enough to establishing separation. I'm trying to figure out why would a guy on the bottom flee the mat in a 0-0 match with time running out? Was he in danger or just trying to get a fresh restart?

Bottom line...should never be called in that situation.  Calls I was talking about were takedowns that have happened in the recent weeks.