2017 Individual State Champions Pick-em Challenge

[Jimmy]

Mnbadger,bringing up different view points is a good thing. I coached middle school for ten yrs. the first couple yrs. we couldn't find any dual meet tournies.Then we got invited into one in Minnesota. The kids absolutely loved it and asked for more.We. Found another one and also started our own. They are the highlight of the season.and no we never won a single one of them.did well but didn't win.but the atmosphere,team aspect, and doing your best for the team has been beneficial for our program.

[1Iota]

I spoke to a Varsity coach the other day who told me that one of his returning wrestlers was on the fence about wrestling this year, his senior year.  He told the coach he would wrestle if he only had to wrestle duals & conference tournament.  He loves the atmosphere of the duals & representing his school, but hates giving up an entire Saturday at tournaments.  He is a very good athlete & will be playing college football next year, but only an above average wrestler.  Stictly a 3 months a year kid.  The coach said he is discussing a compromise where he will wrestle some tournaments, but not all.  I am not sure how unique of a situation this is.  I think the top kids with a chance to win like the tournaments, but I have to believe a number of others would like this kid prefer the duals.   

[walkd]

1Iota, those words have come from a number of wrestlers, and some very competitive. Wrestling is a sport where you can spend all day at a tournament, and in some cases sit for long periods of time.  Basketball and other winter sports are not like that.  The kids feel every weekend is too much, they like to snowboard, hunt, fish, etc.  A weekend every other week would probably suffice, but every weekend is a grind by the end of the year.  I think that factors into whether kids go out and/or stick with the sport.  On the flip side, the argument is duals don't provide enough competition for the elite kids.  Maybe the solution is to have elite tournaments on the weekends and only those interested participate.  I am not for or against, just thinking out loud.

[padre]

1Iota, those words have come from a number of wrestlers, and some very competitive. Wrestling is a sport where you can spend all day at a tournament, and in some cases sit for long periods of time.  Basketball and other winter sports are not like that.  The kids feel every weekend is too much, they like to snowboard, hunt, fish, etc.  A weekend every other week would probably suffice, but every weekend is a grind by the end of the year.  I think that factors into whether kids go out and/or stick with the sport.  On the flip side, the argument is duals don't provide enough competition for the elite kids.  Maybe the solution is to have elite tournaments on the weekends and only those interested participate.  I am not for or against, just thinking out loud.

Basketball up to high school is far worse as far as long days on the weekends.  Parents are spending 10-12 hours a day at these tournaments compared to 4-5 at youth tournaments.  Those that do not compete on these traveling teams won't likely be playing high school.

I am a huge believer into the dual format and the good things they bring.  Problem is we go back to numbers and what junior high teams can come close to filling out a line-up...smaller schools for the most part cannot and generally will not participate.  Altoona had a couple great years as far as team duals went but the majority of teams were D1 because they had the numbers to fill most to all the classes.  However, if instead we look at elite dual teams we are once again solving no problem....great for the top 10 percent but thats about it and generally they aren't quitting either way and many times try to find a weekend tournament where they can get some good competition as duals do not always give that.  The reason behind having team duals should be to maximize "school" spirit to build numbers...not elite club spirit.  But for those that can get the extra good matches all the power to them as they will go back and help their school team...however the negative is many times this is where parents start to collaborate about where their kids should enroll to.

Our junior high conference and most others out there are aimed at getting kids matches vs. competition of their own caliber...the bigger the conference the more chance that is going to happen.  I had top notch wrestlers with losing records last year and beginners with great records.  We also have a conference tournament that has a gold and silver weight class along with scoring team points which aids in team unity and also gets the types of matches we as coaches want our kids to have.

Lots of things are hurting numbers in high school, but its not just wrestling...its across the board and lets be honest...wrestling is very tough on any kids psyche...always has been and always will be.

I see too many kids open enrolling just for wrestling....its not the way its supposed to be but it happens in all sports.  I get it...better partners make for better wrestlers and most times a parents first priority is their own kid over success of a school.  Is it wrong?  Not for those individuals but Yes as far as building more good teams out there.  However, this is spreading the gap between the haves and the have nots and that can't be disputed.  The top teams in the state are getting very good wrestlers that helps their cause but hurts the schools they left.  Many coaches are actually weary of a kid being too good in junior high as they believe they may leave and there is a TON of recruiting out there.  Name me the top schools and I can name you multiple kids at almost every one of them that have kids that did not wrestle for them in their younger years.  I know this has hurt many coaches and probably at times takes away from their energy as a coach.  You think you have a starting point as many of these good kids share their excitement and get other kids out and then all of a sudden they are gone.

So what does that leave me thinking as someone who has run a program K-8th grade for 14 years in a small school?  Many times bitterness.  I've seen it all...a school with 3 junior high wrestlers when i started to a state team down to multiple kids not going out for the sport for no real reason.  Its a roller coaster no doubt.  But Ive learned you just have to keep going to the drawing board year after year and recruit the halls as heavy as you can.  Maybe Team State will never happen for you but those kids you get to stay and have good careers will be forever thankful.  Bring energy to every practice to show those kids that stay out that they matter A LOT!!!!  Remind those that stay out how proud you are of them as often as possible and maybe, just maybe team unity will form and good things will be on the horizon.

Good luck to all the "school" coaches out there!!!!

[padre]

To be clear I am in no way against kids participating in private clubs.  My kids use them in the preseason from grade school until graduation. However, besides elite club duals my club kids use their school name at any tournament they ever wrestle in...end of story.  I greatly appreciate what Dennis, Ben and many others have given to the sport that has created opportunities for kids to go find good wrestling partners. I promote these clubs to my kids to do outside or at times during the season...I've seen the benefits of mat time. But I do wish more kids would use their school affiliation. There are times when their only real affiliation is with that club but by high school why can't you use where you come from? Give some props to your school and your coaches. I know many junior high and high school coaches feel like they have been slapped in the face when a kid they've worked with long and hard doesn't affiliate with their hometown.

I can really only speak of World Gold but I do know Dennis has never asked kids to go under his name...if they do great as of course it helps promote that club but if they don't that isn't an issue either. Ive seen some kids over the span of their career be Listed under at least four different clubs or whatever the flavor of the month was at that time...it generally tells me the kids(actually usually the parent)  is going to be an issue as there is never allegiance to one place...and that becomes a problem.