2017 Individual State Champions Pick-em Challenge

[nutman]

I would be interested in this connection in any division.  There is a strong correlation between wrestling freestyle and greco and success at WIAA state.  Youth State Champions were more likely to wrestle fs and/or greco in the off-season, which is the indicator.  Those youth state champs who did not wrestle fs and greco did not have continued success. 

[foose4]

.  Those youth state champs who did not wrestle fs and greco did not have continued success. 

I would have to say that is a false blanket sratement .

[CLC FAN]

..the original numbers provided in the original post was a direct snapshot of last year state champions and the success they had as a youth.

[coughs akwardly]
Ummmm... the original numbers in the original post by Tom were meant to be a fun way of trying to predict the 2017 state champs based completely on a wrestler's high school results from last year.  


But hey, you guys that want to debate about youth wrestling - why don't you use the pickem challenge to settle this?  GYP could fill his card out with only those wrestlers on my lists who had success at youth state, nutman could go a step further and choose only the names of kids who were youth state champs and wrestled the olympic styles as well, and foose4 could try to stick to non-olympic style wrestling former youth state champs.

Make it fun for everyone and post your picks here.  Money where your mouth is anyone?


2017 Individual State Champions Pick-em Challenge

http://www.wiwrestling.com/2017-individual-state-champions-pick-em-challenge/

[aarons23]

..the original numbers provided in the original post was a direct snapshot of last year state champions and the success they had as a youth.

[coughs akwardly]
Ummmm... the original numbers in the original post by Tom were meant to be a fun way of trying to predict the 2017 state champs based completely on a wrestler's high school results from last year.  


But hey, you guys that want to debate about youth wrestling - why don't you use the pickem challenge to settle this?  GYP could fill his card out with only those wrestlers on my lists who had success at youth state, nutman could go a step further and choose only the names of kids who were youth state champs and wrestled the olympic styles as well, and foose4 could try to stick to non-olympic style wrestling former youth state champs.

Make it fun for everyone and post your picks here.  Money where your mouth is anyone?


2017 Individual State Champions Pick-em Challenge

http://www.wiwrestling.com/2017-individual-state-champions-pick-em-challenge/

The original numbers posted by GYP....now your just being sarcastic.  Discussions about the betterment of our sport should always be welcomed....even if it differs from your opinions  and excessive math formulas ( thats me being sarcastic).

[Coach V]

Ahh jeepers Aaron,

[Ghetto]

I think this horse has beaten to death but I will give it one last go..
I feel we need to create more dual opportunity's earlier to help keep the good kids in the sport. I am personally hearing from quality wrestlers the reason they quit is because they feel they are to far behind to catch up, they are referring to the youth state place winners. I am excluding the handful of kids that get drunk on wresting for the first time in high school and train year round to get caught up. If we want to try and grow the numbers and get back the the good kids that leave the sport its through dual's. I am talking about the good athletes that do a lot of sports, they feel they can not compete with the top kids that wrestle year round, and for many of these kids they are used to a high level of success. So when they lose they can't handle the adversity so they just quit and say i am going to focus on football. Kids these days are either softer or more advanced then ever and the gap is getting bigger and bigger. If we can start putting an emphases on youth dual's vs just individual accomplishments I think we can keep some of the better kids out for the sport longer. The kids the know the odd's of winning state as well as anyone on this site so we have to give them another opportunity for success in this sport or they will just keep quitting.

Well said. There is very little middle ground any more. It's true with all sports it seems. Specialization is killing numbers in all sports.

[Ivan Stankowski]

Borrowed from the mat.com

Brucki just beat Mark Hall, this may not not be the norm but!!!!


Watching the match, they looked a weight class or two apart. Hall is muscular for a high school kid, but needs to put on some size for the college level. I have no doubt that he will. For what it's worth, Brucki didn't start wrestling until high school and has gradually worked his way up through the levels. These guys have polar opposite wrestling backgrounds. Brucki's win is a boost for all of the guys who get started later.

[Coach V]

Ahh jeepers GYP. From a good thought out post that has a lot of truth to it to a goofball post ripping on Wisconsin kids. Come on man.

[Ghetto]

We can't do it with the mindset that kids have to be kids state champs to be successful.

[aarons23]

We can't do it with the mindset that kids have to be kids state champs to be successful.

Who said this?  It doesn't help to deny the correlation between youth success and high school success and then try to replicate what the successful kids do. There will never be a one size fits all but there definitely is a path that can increase possibility of success.

I like GYP idea of more duals, a state youth dual tournament would be great and I do think it would build teams and help with retention. I believe both MN and Il all ready have this.  It may be worth us looking at.  I've been to the east coast a couple times now and dual tournaments are all over.  Was at Cornell University this weekend for Elementary and Muddle a School duals.  Seems they have these almost every weekend between New Jersey, PA, New York and even Ohio is getting in on the action.

[CLC FAN]

Youth duals would be a great start.  I know numbers aren't sufficient yet, but I believe jv duals between most teams would keep kids longer too.  In popular sports, a kid usually gets a chance to develop with teammates at a competition level that is appropriate for him.

We seem to miss that in wrestling.  I think the wwca challenge series is a great first step towards meaningful jv events - how about an 8 or 10 weight class jv dual competition of some kind?  You could do qualifiers just like the challenge series does and then have a secional jv dual champ If 6 teams show up, run a bracket where teams all get as many duals as possible. I think right now it would only help the teams with good numbers already, but I don't really see a path towards increasing overall participation in the sport without meaningful, developmentally appropriate events for jv kids.

[aarons23]

Youth duals would be a great start.  I know numbers aren't sufficient yet, but I believe jv duals between most teams would keep kids longer too.  In popular sports, a kid usually gets a chance to develop with teammates at a competition level that is appropriate for him.

We seem to miss that in wrestling.  I think the wwca challenge series is a great first step towards meaningful jv events - how about an 8 or 10 weight class jv dual competition of some kind?  You could do qualifiers just like the challenge series does and then have a secional jv dual champ If 6 teams show up, run a bracket where teams all get as many duals as possible. I think right now it would only help the teams with good numbers already, but I don't really see a path towards increasing overall participation in the sport without meaningful, developmentally appropriate events for jv kids.

Great idea!!

[Numbers]

Since this might become the only thread needed for the rest of the year...

How about team scoring each JV Qualifier with the top point scorer at each weight per school (Bonus points and all)?  Then let those 8 JV challenge regional team champions bring the whole JV team to the finals two weeks later.  (Half that team is already wrestling at the finals.)  Run the 8 team JV dual state tournament that Friday evening.  If a team does not have funds or passes, the runner-up team qualifies.  Sure some kids will wrestle the same kid Friday night and maybe in the semis or finals the next day, but the goal is to get these kids qualify matches in a competitive team environment.

[MNbadger]

I know I am seen as a contrarian but.... I think duals discourage kids more than individual meets.  If your program is building, and you lose dual after dual they quit.  In individual tourneys/meets you can always find something positive.  I have been at both ends of this.  I am in a dual-crazy state and would be perfectly happy doing few to none.  Just my viewpoint, thanks for letting me share. 
What I have seen in my many years is this;  We used to battle hockey, big time.  For a while it was skateboarding.  Then is was snowboarding (still fighting that one).  Now it is...... nothing!  They do NOTHING!  They go home, watch tv and text on their phones. Only a small number are rabid about video games even.  We have been trying to build youth for some time to no avail.  Communities near us have good numbers and kids with experience.  We had this too but I could not keep doing it mself.  I don't have an answer (I don't really think there is one).

[Ivan Stankowski]

I know I am seen as a contrarian but.... I think duals discourage kids more than individual meets.  If your program is building, and you lose dual after dual they quit.  In individual tourneys/meets you can always find something positive.  I have been at both ends of this.  I am in a dual-crazy state and would be perfectly happy doing few to none.  Just my viewpoint, thanks for letting me share. 
What I have seen in my many years is this;  We used to battle hockey, big time.  For a while it was skateboarding.  Then is was snowboarding (still fighting that one).  Now it is...... nothing!  They do NOTHING!  They go home, watch tv and text on their phones. Only a small number are rabid about video games even.  We have been trying to build youth for some time to no avail.  Communities near us have good numbers and kids with experience.  We had this too but I could not keep doing it mself.  I don't have an answer (I don't really think there is one).

The answer is parents IMO, my kids have never had an xbox, they have never owned a skateboard, they are limited to the amount of TV they can watch, they leave the phones on the counter when they go to bed, we spend time outside fishing, hunting, trail riding bikes, camping etc, that is how they grew up that is what the know, they did not have a game control stuck in there hand as a pacifier.
My youngest plays Hockey,sure it hurts but wrestling just was not for him at this point in time but maybe at some point it will be, he is young and a good athlete so you never know. so yes he was lost to hockey for now, I guess I would rather have him lost to Hockey than to "Nothing" or "Gaming" or being a "Thug"

I still love watching high school and College wrestling and enjoy reading what other wrestling fans have to say, I may not always agree and that does not make me right, I just have some different opinions on some things, but keep the passion for this great sport going!!