WIAA Board of Control votes to seed team state

[Numbers]

Is there any criteria for coaches to consider when ranking 1 to 4?  If 2 teams are undefeated in duals, would a coach vote a previous defending champion #1 just because nobody has beaten them yet since they won state?  Should the previous year matter at all?  How important is a December head to head dual victory in ranking the top 4 in the middle of February?  Is the ranking for the whole year or the perceived best team after regionals?

And since only half of D1 is placed/separated, if you are the 4th or 5th best D1 team in a year the #1 team is just stacked, would you rather get ranked 5 and take your chances to get placed on the other half of the bracket vs #2 or #3 the first round?

[Jimmy]

Final word, if seeding is so great ,accurate and important then why not just seed it and1&2 wrestle for first,3&4  wrestle for third etc?

[FinalWord]

I don't think team state or individual state should be seeded if coaches are the ones doing the seeding. I've been to enough seeding meetings to realize that coaches are mostly concerned with their "individuals" not the big picture.

[Coach V]

Not sure who or how it was recommended to seed half the teams. If it was brought to the board that way, it is different than what we discussed. It's a step forward, now we have to just keep moving in that direction. #alwaysbuilding

[DarkKnight]

I like the seeding idea. Would love to see all teams seeded, but thats okay.

I prefer rankings being put into the equation also. I'm sure the ranking staff has criteria they use.

I'd prefer to see the best two teams in the finals, so i'm good with it. Use number of state place winners, etc, as criteria, also, plus number of wrestlers with with winning records, head to head, its not terribly difficult to seed. I could do it

[Barou]

I get that but the object of seeding is to separate the perceived best teams. If it perceived that you are not one of the best then what is the difference when you wrestle who. You need three upsets to win it all.

I disagree with the argument that you don't seed the last four teams or last two teams in a 4 team bracket. It's more than simply separating 1 and 2. All teams need to  be seeded and placed in brackets accordingly.

All teams should be seeded and teams that are defeated should wrestle for 3rd (D2 and D3) and 3rd and 5th (D1).

Another WIAA half measure. 

As recommended by the Coaches Association. So Blame the WIAA.

Fair enough.  I redact my 1/2 measure reference to the WIAA....for this one.  Curious as to why the Coaches Association stopped short of recommending a full seeding.  I would think it would be important to line up #4 vs #5 seed as opposed to seeding 4 and randomly drawing 4 teams.

[dforsythe]

I think FinalWord is right. The coaches should not be doing the seeding. I have been in enough seeding meetings and have seen how coaches manipulate seeding for their own good.  Let some impartial people (coaches) do the seeding. I also like the idea of criteria like state placewinners, etc.

[Barou]

I don't think team state or individual state should be seeded if coaches are the ones doing the seeding. I've been to enough seeding meetings to realize that coaches are mostly concerned with their "individuals" not the big picture.

I've been to enough seeding meetings to realize that every other tournament does a better job formatting it than the state tournament.  There should be enough information to evaluate by the state tournament that it limits a coaches ability to "lobby" for his guy.

[MNbadger]

Despite tha wrath that might come with it..... In MN they seed the first five in teams (soccer for instance).  The other three are randomly drawn.  As I recall being told once this was preferable to seeding all the way to 8th as this gives the outstate teams (they tend to be a bit weaker) a chance rather than being assured of hitting #1 every time.

[DocWrestling]

No matter how you seed it, someone will gripe!

No matter how you seed it, it will never be 100% correct

No matter how you seed it, it is better than what we have had in the past.

I would have the 8 or 4 coaches that lost in the sectional finals do the seeding.  Give them some statistical evidence and let them do the eye test also and seed it out and send it in on their own.   Don't put all the coaches in one room.  Average the individual submissions.  Then publish what each coach selected for seeding for accountability.

I would seed every team and wrestle back to 3rd.

[MNbadger]

Doc, Why do you need to seed if you wrestle back to third?  The only likely difference would be being second vs third.

[DocWrestling]

Doc, Why do you need to seed if you wrestle back to third?  The only likely difference would be being second vs third.

Seeding is technically done to try and get and the two most deserving teams into state championship.

The same could be said about the 3rd place match.  Why would we want who we might think are the 3rd and 4th best teams meeting before the the 3rd place match?

My philosophy is different than the WIAA.  Getting to state is the ultimate memory and experience.  I feel like we should seed the entire team tourney so hopefully the four best teams get this experience no matter of geographic location.

Once at state their is no experience like the march of champions on the individual side and championship night.  We should try to seed so the two supposed best wrestlers get that experience.  I realize knowing who those two are difficult often.

The team state experience should build to the 3rd place duals and then the championship duals.

Individual state should guarantee every wrestler 2 matches to enjoy that unbelievable experience.

More team duals at team state allows more wrestler more matches as well as coaches the option to wrestle more wrestlers and be part of that experience.

I guess I am old and sentimental as I think about the experience and memories for these kids more so than the actual placings.

[MNbadger]

For me it doesn't matter if the best two teams/wrestlers meet in the first round, second round or the fian round.  Same for third and fourth.  The goal is to have a competion and then theoretically have the wrestlers end up where they "should".  If you wrestle back to third without seeding most likely the only "flaw" would/could be for the wrestlers in 2nd/3rd. The real need for seeding comes if you do not have wrestle back to third.

[wrastle63]

Doc I agree with the 2 guaranteed matches at state. I also agree with separating the best 4 teams in the state. There have been years were teams are left at home who have the state champ their best match.

[DarkKnight]

I wouldnt mind seeding all 8, but this is a good step. Should make for some interesting conversation come next state tourney.

Not sure if it will be KK #1 Stoughton #2, or what. Other teams could surprise, such as Elkhorn, Waterford, Holmen, or maybe Milton will be back.

Though right now if I had to guess, KK #1 and Sto #2 would be fair. #3 will have to wait and see