Federal Court-wolf hunting ends now

[ramjet]

"I have an open mind that is not controlled by the Humane Society."

You're good people, Ram; but common man!! The pro-hunt has some major influence on you. I'm guessing the wolves have taken some of your venison; and maybe even some of Hound's dogs.

It sounds like the time is right to start the hunt/trp; but it also sounds like you and many of your hunting enthusiast friends may have pushed the issue a tad; and without the backing (yet) of the people in charge of the plan to keep the wolves here. This has been a fun topic; but please consider your politics and how they might limit your mind from opening. Or don't and just point out handles, who did come up with science, being some flaming liberal. He has evidence; which I think merits inclusion of hunt/trap in the plan.n THEN, the politicians should talk "law."

I do like that our state, in general, keeps an open mind, and with any luck, we'll be hunting elk and sandhills, and other yummies, in the near future. I've gotta believe the plan team will addend to hunt/trap in the very near future.

Nope never even applied for a tag.

[imnofish]

Still no golf date scheduled?      

[wrestle84]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

[dman]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

Cause blaming the state lawmakers is easier based on political beliefs.

[maggie]

who's order was tossed out?......http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/12/19/great-lakes-wolves-ordered-returned-endangered-list/20655023/   so much for that dman

[dman]

who's order was tossed out?......http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/12/19/great-lakes-wolves-ordered-returned-endangered-list/20655023/   so much for that dman

So you are speaking for bigG and Handles now....got it.  Not to mention it was meant to be tongue and cheek.....thanks for playing though.   

[wrestle84]

who's order was tossed out?......http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/12/19/great-lakes-wolves-ordered-returned-endangered-list/20655023/   so much for that dman

A federal judge on Friday threw out an Obama administration decision to remove the gray wolf population in the western Great Lakes region from the endangered species list

[maggie]

last i checked, i started the thread..

[bigG]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

Cause blaming the state lawmakers is easier based on political beliefs.

Yeah, I really take a political side on this.

"The science clearly shows that wolves are recovered in the Great Lakes region, and we believe the Great Lakes states have clearly demonstrated their ability to effectively manage their wolf populations," Shire said. "This is a significant step backward."

Wolf advocates applauded the ruling Friday.

"We filed the lawsuit to relist the Great Lakes population of wolves," said Fritz. "It was based on the assertion that the Great Lakes states had proven they could not responsibly manage wolves when they were delisted in January 2012."

Here's the crux. The fact is wasn't added to the management plan, IMO, made the re-listing happen. Maybe they were relisted because the Management Plan didn't include hunting/trapping.

[ramjet]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

Cause blaming the state lawmakers is easier based on political beliefs.

Yeah, I really take a political side on this.

"The science clearly shows that wolves are recovered in the Great Lakes region, and we believe the Great Lakes states have clearly demonstrated their ability to effectively manage their wolf populations," Shire said. "This is a significant step backward."

Wolf advocates applauded the ruling Friday.

"We filed the lawsuit to relist the Great Lakes population of wolves," said Fritz. "It was based on the assertion that the Great Lakes states had proven they could not responsibly manage wolves when they were delisted in January 2012."

Here's the crux. The fact is wasn't added to the management plan, IMO, made the re-listing happen. Maybe they were relisted because the Management Plan didn't include hunting/trapping.

"We" being the Humane Society a vehement Anti Hunting organization. they are more interested in stopping all hunting than just "saving the wolf" ....

[wrestle84]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

Cause blaming the state lawmakers is easier based on political beliefs.

Yeah, I really take a political side on this.

"The science clearly shows that wolves are recovered in the Great Lakes region, and we believe the Great Lakes states have clearly demonstrated their ability to effectively manage their wolf populations," Shire said. "This is a significant step backward."

Wolf advocates applauded the ruling Friday.

"We filed the lawsuit to relist the Great Lakes population of wolves," said Fritz. "It was based on the assertion that the Great Lakes states had proven they could not responsibly manage wolves when they were delisted in January 2012."

Here's the crux. The fact is wasn't added to the management plan, IMO, made the re-listing happen. Maybe they were relisted because the Management Plan didn't include hunting/trapping.

That's what you don't get. The delisting and relisting have zero to do with anything the state has done. The USFWS did not dot the i's and cross the t's when delisting. For the one hundredth time,  The USFWS is not run by the state. Read the judges ruling, show me where anything that happened in the state legislature had anything to do with the decision to relist.

[bigG]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

Cause blaming the state lawmakers is easier based on political beliefs.

Yeah, I really take a political side on this.

"The science clearly shows that wolves are recovered in the Great Lakes region, and we believe the Great Lakes states have clearly demonstrated their ability to effectively manage their wolf populations," Shire said. "This is a significant step backward."

Wolf advocates applauded the ruling Friday.

"We filed the lawsuit to relist the Great Lakes population of wolves," said Fritz. "It was based on the assertion that the Great Lakes states had proven they could not responsibly manage wolves when they were delisted in January 2012."

Here's the crux. The fact is wasn't added to the management plan, IMO, made the re-listing happen. Maybe they were relisted because the Management Plan didn't include hunting/trapping.

That's what you don't get. The delisting and relisting have zero to do with anything the state has done. The USFWS did not dot the i's and cross the t's when delisting. For the one hundredth time,  The USFWS is not run by the state. Read the judges ruling, show me where anything that happened in the state legislature had anything to do with the decision to relist.

No, they didn't do such. Too bad. But, it appears those t's and i's made it possible to allow hunts without any science from either agency, from states. It's the same political pssin' match.

Now we'll get money from NRA and WolfloversUSA fightin' it out.

You think the impact of a state beginning a hunt/trap, dogs/night w/out it part of the actual conservation plan doesn't an impact on folks at the federal level? I think it would and did. Just agreeing with the hippy biologists who've been in this wolf thing for years and applied to hunt them. 

The judge was wrong. So was the state for not waiting, IMHO. That's what you don't get.

[wrestle84]

A federal judge ruled the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been "arbitrary and capricious" in its handling of wolf management in the western Great Lakes region. I'm not sure why Handles and BigG keep blaming the state lawmakers for that. I didn't realize our state lawmakers were in control of the USFWS.

Cause blaming the state lawmakers is easier based on political beliefs.

Yeah, I really take a political side on this.

"The science clearly shows that wolves are recovered in the Great Lakes region, and we believe the Great Lakes states have clearly demonstrated their ability to effectively manage their wolf populations," Shire said. "This is a significant step backward."

Wolf advocates applauded the ruling Friday.

"We filed the lawsuit to relist the Great Lakes population of wolves," said Fritz. "It was based on the assertion that the Great Lakes states had proven they could not responsibly manage wolves when they were delisted in January 2012."

Here's the crux. The fact is wasn't added to the management plan, IMO, made the re-listing happen. Maybe they were relisted because the Management Plan didn't include hunting/trapping.

That's what you don't get. The delisting and relisting have zero to do with anything the state has done. The USFWS did not dot the i's and cross the t's when delisting. For the one hundredth time,  The USFWS is not run by the state. Read the judges ruling, show me where anything that happened in the state legislature had anything to do with the decision to relist.

No, they didn't do such. Too bad. But, it appears those t's and i's made it possible to allow hunts without any science from either agency, from states. It's the same political pssin' match.

Now we'll get money from NRA and WolfloversUSA fightin' it out.

You think the impact of a state beginning a hunt/trap, dogs/night w/out it part of the actual conservation plan doesn't an impact on folks at the federal level? I think it would and did. Just agreeing with the hippy biologists who've been in this wolf thing for years and applied to hunt them.  

The judge was wrong. So was the state for not waiting, IMHO. That's what you don't get.

So you can't find anything in the judges ruling pointing to anything that the state did wrong, but you still blame the state. Got it. No sense arguing with that kind of logic.

[bigG]

I think, if you'll read the links; especially what Dick Thiel said, you'll see there is that link. See it's not just the judge; it's the Humane Society. Get it, it's not just the judge. I'm guessing the Humane Society wouldn't have wasted their time if the hunt/trap were in the plan. Wolf hunt lovers may have blown their shot for some time now. No, the state overstepping their bounds had nothing to do with it.

It's just all this judge influenced by the Humane Society. And the Humane Society was just miffed at Fish and Game. I don't think I'm taking a huge leap here; but I'll agree to disagree with you.

[maggie]

ha! look, it says here in the 57,548 Th page of this bill that we can now shoot wolfs when ever we want too...