Angelo Ferrari

[MNbadger]

I have been sounding this alarm to my friends as soon as the NIL thing was on the horizon.  In reality, FB and BB have been doing this forever albeit "illegally".  The NCAA would "catch" some lesser programs and crush them for effect all the while allowing a Wild West scenario to play out.
The one thing I will add is that it won't just be "non revenue" sports.  The reality is that most DI football programs do not make money either.  They will be gone as well.
Lastly, you laid it out better than I could have.

Gentlemen, you are seeing the end of our sport as we know it...and any number of other non-profit sponsored collegiate sports. And it will come sooner than you think. Put football and mens basketball is a separate box because they actually make money for their respective schools - they will, and have been, treated differently. But NIL money and its concentration at a limited number of wrestling programs will create a very limited number of "haves" and many "have nots." Once that imbalance becomes the norm, the perennial (limited number of) winners will be identified - as will the non-winners, i.e., the "losers." The supporters of the losers will quickly lose interest and move on to other fandom-interests (it is just our nature as fans) and will most certainly abandon support for minor collegiate sports; PSU and Iowa maybe the kings, but their kingdom will only include four programs - all of the others will have been disbanded/dismantled. Wrestling as we know it will be absorbed by professional MMA-type endeavors and lose their once strong affiliation with specific schools (and their athletic supporters).

Professional sports, e.g., NFL, NBA, etc., only survive because the games' managers ensure that a certain amount of the wealth is spread around to ensure a competitive environment where even losers have chance at success. Collegiate wrestling cannot make the same boast under these current dynamics; repeatedly heading into PSU or Iowa and coming out with one or no wins will lose its competitive appeal to the average fan, and there aren't enough interested billionaire fans to come to the rescue of the uncompetitive teams.

This move away from limited scholarships and toward paying amateur athletes unequal wages is our sport's death knell - and you will see the end of the sport within a decade. Think it can't happen? Remember collegiate boxing? I thought not.

[littleguy301]

I agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I.  Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!

It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.

They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.


The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!

Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.

but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.

Their second stringers would not win a team trophy.  Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!

Maybe not win but I will.bet you theyfi ish top 5. I am sure no one wants to hear that from wisco sin but what PSU is doing they may have world.tesm medalist as back up so let think this over!

What PSU is doing is unheard of at this level!

Backups finishing top 5??? Not a chance!  Look at PSU historically and they haven't had more than two, possibly three backups on one roster who were AA material and probably low AAs.  You have to have several high AAs to finish top 5.  PSU's A squad will undoubtedly have many high AAs, but the second stringers hypothetically would have ony a few AAs at best.  Many guys who are stuck behind a high AA will look to transfer.  Also, just because a guy won some international medals doesn't make him a high AA otherwise Amos and Rowley would have produced more than 0 NCAA points.  So some of the guys you are hyping won't even produce at NCAAs.  Robbie Howard was another guy who was hyped up quite a bit, but due to injuries, he's been a non-factor at NCAAs.  I realize PSU is a powerhouse and will be favored often in the future to win as long as Cael is in charge but some of you get carried away into crazy thinking.

Maybe I was getting carried away a.vit. though I will say if they have 2 to 3 low AA. That is enough to place top 15ish overall.

If PSU has had this 10 year run they are.just reloading much did Iowa in their historic run also.

Why are the senior level guys all running to the nitty lions wrestling club. They are doing something right.

PSU has put the plan out there to.be successful and while some want to be AA or natty champs others want that world medal also.

Money talks and gets kid through some tough times. Whoever has the cash is.going to be at the top in today's environment!

[Troy Grindle]

College boxing was disbanded by the NCAA after almost all of the schools dropped it because athletes were dying because of injuries sustained while competing.  Nothing to do with NIL or professional boxing.  Wisconsin was considered an elite team and even they dropped the sport after one of their athletes died from injuries.

Collegiate wrestling isn't going anywhere.  Pretty sure it was 3-4 schools running roughshod over everyone else 30 years ago also.  I don't recall Slippery Rock bringing home a team trophy in the 90's.  But I do remember Iowa looking unstoppable.  But yet a team did eventually come along and take Iowa down. 

[npope]

The point wasn't that they are similar sports but rather, that a fully embraced NCAA sport can disappear in the blink of an eye - look no further than NCAA boxing. Hope you're around in five years to continue this conversation.

[littleguy301]

I believe alot od this NIL money in the non profit sports is a tad over blown to some extent.

Lots of these kids aren't on big scholarships and do have to pay for their schooling and believe it or not they have to pay taxes on this money.

So I hear of all this money being thrown around and athletes like world team members are making far less than what I hear these college athletes in wrestling are making and I would think that wouldn't sit well with the world team members.

I some what agree with you npope that if it isn't regulated to some degree the colleges will look at non revenue sports and look to cut them if millions are going to athletes and colleges are losing millions. Which I don't believe that is the case in alot of this.

I am sure athletes are getting a good amount don't get.me wrong but I also believe some of the dollar amounts are over blown to some degree.

Cost of school
Living expense
Taxes
What the NIL involves

Just a few things to look at in the long run.

[MNbadger]

What do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid?  If they have eligibility, they can partake.  Otherwise they are two different things.

[MNbadger]

Everyone has living expenses, taxes, and school costs.  NIL is separate from their scholarship.  I posted this before, if a 5th place AA gets $100,000 your base team salary is $1,000,000 per season if you expect to be in the running for a team trophy.

I believe alot od this NIL money in the non profit sports is a tad over blown to some extent.

Lots of these kids aren't on big scholarships and do have to pay for their schooling and believe it or not they have to pay taxes on this money.

So I hear of all this money being thrown around and athletes like world team members are making far less than what I hear these college athletes in wrestling are making and I would think that wouldn't sit well with the world team members.

I some what agree with you npope that if it isn't regulated to some degree the colleges will look at non revenue sports and look to cut them if millions are going to athletes and colleges are losing millions. Which I don't believe that is the case in alot of this.

I am sure athletes are getting a good amount don't get.me wrong but I also believe some of the dollar amounts are over blown to some degree.

Cost of school
Living expense
Taxes
What the NIL involves

Just a few things to look at in the long run.

[littleguy301]

What do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid?  If they have eligibility, they can partake.  Otherwise they are two different things.

Your missing the point. These RTC athletes working with the college athletes will be making much much less money than th themes and they have alot more credentials.

The 100k  old be to cover 30k education and room and board. What are these schools going to kick off kids all ready on scholarships to Brin these transfers in for 1 year. NIL is also being used as a way to get their school paid for also.

Do we now rename scholarships as 100k, 50k, 250k depends on where you go.

[DocWrestling]

I agree other than one premise.  It is not the losses of "fandoms" that will kill the sport as much as administrators themselves.

Lots of wrestling teams have very few fans now and never had many just like other olympic non-revenue sports.  Universities offer these under and outdated model of collegiate athletics.  Some universities sponsor a lot more sports than others.

Now that the model of collegiate athletics is altered to a more professional model and that altruistic athletic dept is going to start dropping sports beyond just wrestling.  But wrestling is going to be hit the hardest first because it has the fewest amount of D1 teams.  At some point there are going to be about 25-30 30 D1 teams total in the country.  Which ones can last that long?  The other problem with wrestling is the "olympic sports" model.  Folkstyle wrestling is not an olympic sport.  Maybe more NIL type money will funnel to national training centers for freestyle and greco rather than to universities.

Wrestling is headed to the D3 model.  D3 schools want lots of wrestlers because sports are a way of recruiting students to pay tuition.

[Vir Fortis]

I agree PSU has alot of firepower coming I.  Kerkorian has 2 or 3 years left so......PSU may not have the firepower of those past studs they maybe better!

It's really unprecedented. And it's not just the upper weights with PSU. Those are a little more ridiculous than the others, but they're doubling/tripling up at the light weights and they still have Robbie Howard and now Nagao who have 7 years left between the two. Lillendahl, Gibson, Kasak...it's really not even worth doing this anymore. It's not comparable and that's before accounting for how PSU develops Wrestlers. The growth at PSU is as impressive as their recruiting...which until very recently, hasn't been THAT good. Cael brought some great Wrestlers with him, but it's not like he's just had more talent. He's developed Wrestlers. Guys like Cassar who was struggling to make the lineup, jumps up to HWT and runs through the weight class and is the only one to beat Gable Stevenson.

They'll likely lose several guys due to transfer and they'll KEEP picking up studs, but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy. If it was an open, I believe there are weights they'd very possibly have multiple Wrestlers at. This next year, 157 pops to mind.


The gap between them and anyone else is enormous. And it's not hard to see why. Looking at the Open, Trials, Final X, you've got NLWC on NLWC crime!

Lee, Zain, Dake, Taylor, Snyder...and guys like Nolf, Gilman, Brooks.

but if they were, hypothetically, to keep the guys they've got, they have a team that may very well have enough to field another lineup that would win a team trophy.

Their second stringers would not win a team trophy.  Now you are just talking nonsense. Give it a rest!

Maybe not win but I will.bet you theyfi ish top 5. I am sure no one wants to hear that from wisco sin but what PSU is doing they may have world.tesm medalist as back up so let think this over!

What PSU is doing is unheard of at this level!

I mean...if you're saying they're 5th, they're just one spot out of a team trophy.

I don't think BadgerOne actually understands or realizes the talent PSU has coming in. I think you'll see plenty of guys transferring out because they may be stuck.
But even at 125, you've got guys like Howard, Davis(who barely gets talked about as he's the "measley" 30th ranked recruit). Nasdeo is the 91st ranked PFP recruit. Lillendahl(#2). Gibson(#8). Nagao(5th as a Freshmen).

That's 125 and 133 the next couple years(and I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple guys). LOL...it's ridiculous. Kasak will be there at the same time Van Ness, Mesenbrink, Haines(top 2 in the Country right now IMO at 157). Erik Gibson is also projected to Wrestle there. So a just two weights where they've had a Freshmen who took 3rd and a runner-up, they're adding ridiculous talent and depth. And that's not even touching the upper weights where they've got even more depth.


This really is just unprecedented. PSU has been dominating with a couple of top 10 Wrestlers a year(maybe). Now they're getting 6 in a class+2 AA transfers, a kid like Mesenbrink. I think PSU's biggest competition for the foreseeable future is going to be in the room.

[Vir Fortis]

College boxing was disbanded by the NCAA after almost all of the schools dropped it because athletes were dying because of injuries sustained while competing.  Nothing to do with NIL or professional boxing.  Wisconsin was considered an elite team and even they dropped the sport after one of their athletes died from injuries.

Collegiate wrestling isn't going anywhere.  Pretty sure it was 3-4 schools running roughshod over everyone else 30 years ago also.  I don't recall Slippery Rock bringing home a team trophy in the 90's.  But I do remember Iowa looking unstoppable.  But yet a team did eventually come along and take Iowa down. 

I agree with this completely. Ultimately...is this really any different than Iowa's dominance in the 80s? You might not have seen it coming as clearly as you can see it with PSU right now, but one team dominating isn't going to kill the sport because that's how it's always been. Boise State still competes in Football even though 'Bama and UGA get 15 top 250 recruits.

Success means different things for different programs. It's not win the NC or bust for the vast majority of teams or Wrestling never would have grown.

I'd guess there are fewer different schools to win a National Title as a team in Wrestling than any other sport. It's basically Okie State, Iowa, Iowa State, Penn State and then a few other programs have a title. Oklahoma, Minnesota, ASU...I think MSU and Indiana won titles in the early years.

[BadgerOne]

Vir Fortis tell me which PSU backups could hypothetically AA next year.  Other than 165 where there is both Facundo and Messenbrink, I don't see any backups that would score many points at NCAAs.   Put up or shut up!  You claim the second team is a podium team, but you can't use any starters so Howard, Nagao, Barlett, Van Ness, Haines, the starter between Facundo and Messenbrink, Staroccci, Truax and Kerkvliet can't be in the lineup.  Give the lineup of backups that is a podium team, so we can all see how ridiculous your assertions are.

[bigoil]

What do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid?  If they have eligibility, they can partake.  Otherwise they are two different things.

Your missing the point. These RTC athletes working with the college athletes will be making much much less money than th themes and they have alot more credentials.

The 100k  old be to cover 30k education and room and board. What are these schools going to kick off kids all ready on scholarships to Brin these transfers in for 1 year. NIL is also being used as a way to get their school paid for also.

Do we now rename scholarships as 100k, 50k, 250k depends on where you go.

Not $30,000 but rather $50,000 to gross up for taxes as I think you may have pointed out earlier.

How crazy is it that it's even being discussed that Gable could possibly be at Iowa? Certainly no fan of the U but if he wrestles, it has to be Minnesota right? Well not if Iowa offers $500K, $1M?

[littleguy301]

What do you think the World Team members can do about how much collegiate athletes get paid?  If they have eligibility, they can partake.  Otherwise they are two different things.

Your missing the point. These RTC athletes working with the college athletes will be making much much less money than th themes and they have alot more credentials.

The 100k  old be to cover 30k education and room and board. What are these schools going to kick off kids all ready on scholarships to Brin these transfers in for 1 year. NIL is also being used as a way to get their school paid for also.

Do we now rename scholarships as 100k, 50k, 250k depends on where you go.

Not $30,000 but rather $50,000 to gross up for taxes as I think you may have pointed out earlier.

How crazy is it that it's even being discussed that Gable could possibly be at Iowa? Certainly no fan of the U but if he wrestles, it has to be Minnesota right? Well not if Iowa offers $500K, $1M?

Well if iowa offers 1 million o Gable to wrestle npope is going to be right. Their is alot of grumbling in Iowa during/after covid about athletic department money. I know NIL is privately raised buy is really going to cast a serious doubt as to how much colleges are going to fund sports.

[bigoil]

What is going on with gambling for Iowa athletes that I've been hearing about, especially in regards to the wrestling team.