Vote on weight classes

Started by Aquinaswrestling, March 01, 2023, 02:56:48 PM

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Junkyardpig

Huge difference in the analogy of throwing a JV kid out there for basketball or baseball when you need someone in your lineup.  99% of the time in those sports the JV kid has played the sport before, understands the rules and has been in a live situation before.  In wrestling these first year kids when thrown into varsity matches don't know the rules, do not know how to cover in referees position, have no idea how scoring works, lock their hands, run full-nelsons, etc. 

rankwizard

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 15, 2023, 10:41:29 AMIf you cannot understand that wrestling is different then I don't know what to say but here goes.

Wrestling is one on one out there all by yourself.  Completely different than a team sport hiding and inexperienced kid in a team competition.

Wrestling is a combat physical sport.  It is more intense because of that.  Nobody likes getting beat up anywhere especially on a mat all by themselves with friends and family watching.  Is there any sport that is more humiliating than going out on a mat and getting whipped and pinned?  I agree it can build great character but may not be enough for that wrestler to keep coming back for more.

 Being on varsity does not keep kids in the sport.  Heck getting a letter does not even mean much anymore.  The one thing that keeps kids wrestling is validation for their hard work by getting their hand raised.

Do you hide a guy on the football field, volleyball court, or basketball court?? I am pretty sure opposing teams will know the weak points.

bigoil

Quote from: Junkyardpig on March 15, 2023, 11:48:49 AMHuge difference in the analogy of throwing a JV kid out there for basketball or baseball when you need someone in your lineup.  99% of the time in those sports the JV kid has played the sport before, understands the rules and has been in a live situation before.  In wrestling these first year kids when thrown into varsity matches don't know the rules, do not know how to cover in referees position, have no idea how scoring works, lock their hands, run full-nelsons, etc. 
Also, in team sports there are ways to hide weak spots, even on great teams. Also, in team sports, one may not be adapt to offense or defense, but often times they can perform the other. My daughters basketball coach only allowed 3 members to shoot the ball in important games, lost about 10 games in 4 years. In baseball, a strike out is 1/9th and equal to a ground out (sometimes worse, sometimes better) and an improvement is 3 to 4 out of 10, not exactly the same as always giving up 6.

DocWrestling

#63
Not all non-varsity caliber kids have never wrestled before but the point is the same when throwing a freshman or sophomore out there against a kid two years older and at a complete and different time in maturity and strength. Striking out is one on one with the pitcher but there is a catcher and other players on the field so it is a little different mentally.  But the main difference is basically that when you strike out you did not lose.  You made an out.  And you did not physically brawl and get beat. 

Truth is kids can know wrestling but mentally they are not ready to go out on their own and brawl if that makes sense.  Wrestling, boxing, MMA, etc. are just fights with rules.  Being mentally ready may be more important than physically ready and is more important than knowing fundamentals
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

tyben

So when is the voting by the coaches completed and does the voting actually determine how many weight classes there will be or is the vote just to provide the WIAA with information to make a decision?  Also, any idea when a decision will be made?

ThumbWrestler

#65
Great idea, this 14 to 12 thing.

Weaken the best programs. Take away two more chances for kids to wrestle varsity and participate in end of season tournaments.

Yeah, that'll build the sport.

Pretty simple... ask the KID if he wants to be on Varsity and get beat up. If he doesn't, great. If he does, great.

Also, now I understand that every kid that wrestles high school started when they were freshmen. Got it.

Good thing the girls aren't afraid to go on the mat and give it their best shot. What does that say about the boys you are trying to protect?

OneEyedFatMan

Sticking with my vote to keep all weight classes but let 7th and 8th graders participate in h.s. events.  ;D
"Dying ain't much of a livin', boy"

Handles II

Quote from: tyben on March 16, 2023, 10:53:22 AMSo when is the voting by the coaches completed and does the voting actually determine how many weight classes there will be or is the vote just to provide the WIAA with information to make a decision?  Also, any idea when a decision will be made?
Coaches give their recommendation to their AD. The AD gives their own and the Coach's recommendation to the wiaa. So it's not a true coaches vote.

hutgoose

Quote from: OneEyedFatMan on March 16, 2023, 03:19:38 PMSticking with my vote to keep all weight classes but let 7th and 8th graders participate in h.s. events.  ;D

No way. Ppl already holding their kids back for more high school advantage . Now they'll hold kids back in 5th grade.

Ghetto

Quote from: ThumbWrestler on March 16, 2023, 12:13:00 PMGreat idea, this 14 to 12 thing.

Weaken the best programs. Take away two more chances for kids to wrestle varsity and participate in end of season tournaments.

Yeah, that'll build the sport.

Pretty simple... ask the KID if he wants to be on Varsity and get beat up. If he doesn't, great. If he does, great.

Also, now I understand that every kid that wrestles high school started when they were freshmen. Got it.

Good thing the girls aren't afraid to go on the mat and give it their best shot. What does that say about the boys you are trying to protect?

The strongest programs aren't hurt by cutting weights. They probably get a bit stronger, but that's not the point. We have to look at wrestling as a whole and not individual programs.

Totally agree that there should be some conversation as to whether a kid should be pushed up to varsity when they may not be ready.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

Vir Fortis

Quote from: rankwizard on March 15, 2023, 12:33:20 PM
Quote from: DocWrestling on March 15, 2023, 10:41:29 AMIf you cannot understand that wrestling is different then I don't know what to say but here goes.

Wrestling is one on one out there all by yourself.  Completely different than a team sport hiding and inexperienced kid in a team competition.

Wrestling is a combat physical sport.  It is more intense because of that.  Nobody likes getting beat up anywhere especially on a mat all by themselves with friends and family watching.  Is there any sport that is more humiliating than going out on a mat and getting whipped and pinned?  I agree it can build great character but may not be enough for that wrestler to keep coming back for more.

 Being on varsity does not keep kids in the sport.  Heck getting a letter does not even mean much anymore.  The one thing that keeps kids wrestling is validation for their hard work by getting their hand raised.

Do you hide a guy on the football field, volleyball court, or basketball court?? I am pretty sure opposing teams will know the weak points.

Yes, no clue, yes.

Of COURSE you can hide kids. You're also on the field with 21 other kids in Football. In Basketball, you put your worse defender on their worst offensive player. Do you follow Basketball? It's the Trae Young, Steph Curry(and on and on) philosophy. So they're doing it at the highest level.


Obviously Wrestling is different than all those other sports.

Vir Fortis

Quote from: ThumbWrestler on March 16, 2023, 12:13:00 PMGreat idea, this 14 to 12 thing.

Weaken the best programs. Take away two more chances for kids to wrestle varsity and participate in end of season tournaments.

Yeah, that'll build the sport.

Pretty simple... ask the KID if he wants to be on Varsity and get beat up. If he doesn't, great. If he does, great.

Also, now I understand that every kid that wrestles high school started when they were freshmen. Got it.

Good thing the girls aren't afraid to go on the mat and give it their best shot. What does that say about the boys you are trying to protect?


 ::)  ::)

Who's making a new account just to come on here and play the intentionally obtuse/snide role?

Yes, the argument has CLEARLY been that nobody wrestles before High School. I remember seeing that dozens(or zero) times in this thread. The point has been made that some Wrestlers are lost because they're pushed out there before being ready. Do you really not believe this happens?

Or is your only rebuttal something ridiculous that OBVIOUSLY nobody ever said or inferred?

Second, you think just "asking the kid," is the way to go? Yes...HS Boys are notoriously not influenced by what their peers think of them.


And if all else fails...just throw it out there that the boys aren't as tough as the girls! That's right! Insult their manhood! I mean, that's REALLY the best way to "grow the sport." ::)  ::)  ::)

DocWrestling

Truth is that the overwhelming majority of teams do have to rely on wrestlers that just started wrestling as freshman or later.  People are always on here saying coaches have to get out and recruit.  Well they are recruiting kids that have never wrestled.

In my opinion it is also much easier for 182+ weight newbie to come in and compete because the wrestling is a little less technical.  A small wrestler really needs to learn how to wrestle.  I have seen heavy football players come in and able to compete fairly quickly.  Much tougher in the light weights.  If you weigh less than 106 as a freshman and have not wrestled before you probably have not played too many other physical sports.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

Coach V

Voting was done by March 15th
Coaches Advisory Board meets March 29th to make its recommendation to the WIAA. This starts the process.

Matt
You dont wrestle,your a wrestler

ThumbWrestler


Quote from: Vir Fortis on March 19, 2023, 12:41:38 PM
Quote from: ThumbWrestler on March 16, 2023, 12:13:00 PMGreat idea, this 14 to 12 thing.

Weaken the best programs. Take away two more chances for kids to wrestle varsity and participate in end of season tournaments.

Yeah, that'll build the sport.

Pretty simple... ask the KID if he wants to be on Varsity and get beat up. If he doesn't, great. If he does, great.

Also, now I understand that every kid that wrestles high school started when they were freshmen. Got it.

Good thing the girls aren't afraid to go on the mat and give it their best shot. What does that say about the boys you are trying to protect?


 ::)  ::)

Who's making a new account just to come on here and play the intentionally obtuse/snide role?

Yes, the argument has CLEARLY been that nobody wrestles before High School. I remember seeing that dozens(or zero) times in this thread. The point has been made that some Wrestlers are lost because they're pushed out there before being ready. Do you really not believe this happens?

Or is your only rebuttal something ridiculous that OBVIOUSLY nobody ever said or inferred?

Second, you think just "asking the kid," is the way to go? Yes...HS Boys are notoriously not influenced by what their peers think of them.


And if all else fails...just throw it out there that the boys aren't as tough as the girls! That's right! Insult their manhood! I mean, that's REALLY the best way to "grow the sport." ::)  ::)  ::)

Strongman...(giggle)...
Spent past 15 years involved in wrestling. Had 4 boys all wrestle. One started Jr year. Another Freshman year. One in middle school and another in 3rd grade.

Just because I signed up to make a comment on this under-utilized wrestling forum that gets 4 posts/week, doesn't make me a newbie. But looking at your posts, I see you just got off the short bus so I'll leave it at that.

The cure to wrestling woes begins at the youth level. Engage kids by making  the sport fun, not just grueling. Talk to the Alpha parents. Have their kids recruit their friends. Make practices not only challenging, but rewarding.

Right now there is too much emphasis on winning. Parents need to back off. Heck, one of my kids one year lost every match by pin in middle school. Did he quit like you expect kids to? No, became a HS state qualifier. Teach the love of the sport - the internal gratification that comes with trying your best.

Surround these kids with great coaches early... not just the clubs and tournaments, but form grade and middle school teams. Put your excellent coaches there and the rest (high school) will take care of itself.