Vote on weight classes

Started by Aquinaswrestling, March 01, 2023, 02:56:48 PM

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hornbuckleb

INDIANAPOLIS, IN (April 20, 2021) — States will have a choice of 12, 13 or 14 weight classes for both boys and girls competition in high school wrestling, effective with the 2023-24 season.

This will be the first separate weight classes established for girls in high school wrestling, and it marks the first time that state associations will have a choice in the number of weight classes.

The landmark change in weight classes was one of several significant revisions recommended by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) Wrestling Rules Committee at its April 7-9 meeting held virtually this year. All recommendations were subsequently approved by the NFHS Board of Directors.

States must select one of the three sets (12, 13 or 14) of weight classes for girls and one of the three sets (12, 13 or 14) for boys. States cannot adopt all three sets and cannot switch back and forth during the season.

The following weight classes (in pounds) were established for girls competition (girls wrestling girls), effective July 1, 2023:

12 Weight Classes – 100, 107, 114, 120, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 165, 185, 235.

13 Weight Classes – 100, 106, 112, 118, 124, 130, 136, 142, 148, 155, 170, 190, 235.

14 Weight Classes – 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140, 145, 155, 170, 190, 235.

The following weight classes (in pounds) were established for boys competition (boys wrestling boys or girls wrestling boys), effective July 1, 2023:

12 Weight Classes – 108, 116, 124, 131, 138, 145, 152, 160, 170, 190, 215, 285

13 Weight Classes – 107, 114, 121, 127, 133, 139, 145, 152, 160, 172, 189, 215, 285

14 Weight Classes – 106, 113, 120, 126, 132, 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 215, 285

"Previous surveys have indicated a varying number of weight classes that states wanted, so the committee attempted to meet the needs of as many people as possible," said Elliot Hopkins, NFHS director of sports and student services and liaison to the Wrestling Rules Committee. "We have more and more state associations sponsoring girls wrestling and holding state championships for girls, so the committee believed it was time to establish uniform weight classifications for girls.

"The recommended weights were established based upon more than 215,000 assessments from the National Wrestling Coaches Association. We are excited about these changes to weight classes in high school wrestling as we believe it will provide more opportunities for male and female student-athletes to be involved in this great sport."

In another major change affecting risk minimization, a separate 5-minute time-out has been established for the onsite health-care professional to evaluate potential head and neck injuries involving the cervical column (HNC) and/or nervous system.

"There was a desire to establish a separate injury time-out that concerns the head and neck involving the cervical column and/or nervous system and not connect it with the existing 1½-minute injury time-outs or any other stoppage of the match," Hopkins said. "This separate time-out is supported and covered in existing rules that give the referee the authority to observe the signs, symptoms and behaviors of a concussion and respond appropriately."

As a result of the separate HNC time-out, which takes effect next year, a number of other rules in the 2021-22 NFHS Wrestling Rules Book will be altered.

The other significant change in high school wrestling rules for 2021-22 addresses the number of matches allowed in one day of competition. Currently, no wrestler shall represent the school in more than one weight class in any meet or wrestle in more than five matches, excluding forfeits, in any one day of competition.

A change provides an exception to Rule 1-4-3 as follows: "No wrestler shall wrestle in more than six matches (championship or consolation), excluding forfeits, in any one day of a tournament conducted by the state high school association for qualification to the state high school championships or the specific state championships."

This change was enacted as a result of a successful experiment by the Tennessee Secondary School Athletic Association. Hopkins said that increasing the number of matches from five to six would allow postseason tournaments with more than eight competitors in a weight class to complete the tournament in one day. He said, in many cases, this change would eliminate the need for schools to stay overnight to participate in respective state qualifying tournaments and state championship events.

"Since this exception would only allow six matches per day to be wrestled in the postseason qualifying tournament or state championship event, the impact on the total number of matches that an individual wrestles in an entire season would be minimal," Hopkins said. "We do not want to extend this change to the regular season, and this exception would not come into play for the majority of participants."

Two other minor changes were made in the rules for next year. Rule 4-5-7 no longer will require low-cut socks to be worn as a part of the weigh-in procedure, and one change was made in Rule 5-1-1 dealing with choice of position during bad time.

A complete listing of the wrestling rules changes will be available on the NFHS website at www.nfhs.org. Click on "Activities & Sports" at the top of the home page and select "Wrestling."

According to the most recent NFHS High School Athletics Participation Survey, wrestling is the seventh-most popular sport for boys with 247,441 participants in 10,843 schools. In addition, a total of 21,124 girls are involved in the sport in 2,890 schools.

bigoil


asdf

Quote from: bigoil on March 01, 2023, 05:13:51 PMDid going from 12 to 13 and 13 to 14 grow wrestling?

No.  I think you basically validated his points.  # of weight classes, whether up or down, do not "grow" wrestling. Tons of other things already discussed on this forum grow wrestling and most to none are being done by majority of struggling teams.

Congrats to the original poster on growing what was once a struggling program...and not needing to cut opportunities in the hope that it works.

DocWrestling

I do think going all the way to 12 would greatly help wrestling.

Everyone is correct that the best will only get tougher and it is not going to change anything with  teams with really low numbers BUT>>>

I would be 70% of the teams are caught in between.  These are the programs that would really benefit.  More competitive duals would happen.  More JV duals would happen.  Coaches would feel less pressure to put guys in a varsity spot when not ready.

I don't think some people realize the pressure coaches feel from AD's and such to fill a complete lineup.  They know a kid is not ready but feel compelled to make it look good.

In regards to the lightest weight classes having the fewest numbers of wrestlers I don't know how anyone does not realize that and also realize many of those are underclassmen not even ready for varsity.  The problem with the lightest weight classes is nobody can wrestle up because there are so few small kids.  There are probably not as many 195 and 220 lbers but when there are to kids at 182 then one can wrestle 195 or two 195lbers and one wrestles 220.  When kids can wrestle up they fill weight classes.

I personally would get rid of a lower weight and would get rid of an upper weight and then space out more from 150 up.  Lots of kids weighing 150-180 and they can wrestle up to fill weight classes.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

bigoil

Quote from: asdf on March 02, 2023, 01:30:29 PM
Quote from: bigoil on March 01, 2023, 05:13:51 PMDid going from 12 to 13 and 13 to 14 grow wrestling?

No.  I think you basically validated his points.  # of weight classes, whether up or down, do not "grow" wrestling. Tons of other things already discussed on this forum grow wrestling and most to none are being done by majority of struggling teams.

Congrats to the original poster on growing what was once a struggling program...and not needing to cut opportunities in the hope that it works.

OP: "Everyone of us here is for growing the sport of wrestling. Cutting a weight class simply does not help grow the sport of wrestling. In my mind, it's actually counterintuitive to try and grow something by cutting something out of it."

My counter is did adding weights help grow it? I think the answer is a resounding no. I have no proof that reducing weight classes will help grow or potentially decline the sport. I'm simply challenging the assumption because I think the data shows it did not grow the sport.

I have zero fight in the battle, I understand the points people made that reducing will make the likes of Kaukauna stronger but I think there are counters to that. If I have budding program, I'd prefer to take on 12 of the strongest team members rather than 14 because they likely have those extra 2 at or around the weight class and I as budding program likely don't.

It is also a huge perception to AD's when not filling a roster. Please don't denigrate those coaches that don't have a full room. Yes maybe a few are "lazy" but most are in the schools or involved in schools to attract those kids. Majority of Sports in general the past few years have seen a decline in numbers (wrestling numbers have been on a decline for decades) due to options for kids either in school or outside. 

Junkyardpig

14 is too many, look at dual meets from the past 5 years.  Almost every match ends in a fall.  There are way too many JV level/first or second year wrestlers thrown into the varsity lineup because there isn't anyone else on the team at the weight.  Those kids go out, get pinned in 30 seconds and do not come out for the team the next year. 

rankwizard

Going to 12 weights would lower the numbers significantly.

I would prove it for over a thousand dollars in 5 years.

DocWrestling

With needing 14 wrestlers to complete a varsity team, wrestling needs to be better at retaining athletes than compared to any other sport.  Wrestling is horrible at wrestler retention. 

Take the 300 wrestlers at your local Saturday tournament.  Anyone want to make a guess at the % that wrestle in high school.

I would love to see a study on how many wrestlers that compete at all as a freshman actually wrestle all 4 years.  What is your guess on that percentage?

For the record I completely disagree that kids will quit if they are not on varsity.  Every kid may think he wants to be on varsity until he gets destroyed and never gets his hand raised.

We need fewer forfeits for more competitive duals but as said earlier we also need more competitive matches with fewer numbers of 1st period pins.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

DocWrestling

Quote from: rankwizard on March 02, 2023, 04:15:36 PMGoing to 12 weights would lower the numbers significantly.

I would prove it for over a thousand dollars in 5 years.

Why would it?

Because fewer kids get to wrestle on varsity? So they quit or don't come out?
Because fewer kids make it to state?  So they quit or don't come out?

What else am I missing?  What would be the causes?
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

Ghetto

Quote from: rankwizard on March 02, 2023, 04:15:36 PMGoing to 12 weights would lower the numbers significantly.

I would prove it for over a thousand dollars in 5 years.

Might

IDK what that last sentence means, but I'm willing to bet you $1000 that going to 12 does not reduce numbers as much as they've fallen over the past five years.
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

DocWrestling

We know what is happening with 14.  13 is just a subtle move.  12 is a legitimate change.  Nobody can say what might happen.  In my opinion if you are against 12 or even 13 then you are likely just against change and speculating.

I also cannot speculate what will happen but I am up for a legitimate change to 12 to try it.  If nothing has changed for the better then change it back.  Why it takes 20 years to try something different is beyond me.  Often change and different helps.

But I would make a ton of other drastic changes also to bring change and make attempts at improvements
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

asdf

Quote from: DocWrestling on March 02, 2023, 04:47:40 PMWe know what is happening with 14.  13 is just a subtle move.  12 is a legitimate change.  Nobody can say what might happen.  In my opinion if you are against 12 or even 13 then you are likely just against change and speculating.

I also cannot speculate what will happen but I am up for a legitimate change to 12 to try it.  If nothing has changed for the better then change it back.  Why it takes 20 years to try something different is beyond me.  Often change and different helps.

But I would make a ton of other drastic changes also to bring change and make attempts at improvements



Your defense of cutting weight classes seems a bit flawed.

-So, you admit there are a "ton" of other changes and options to make improvements in retention. 
-So, you admit you have "no idea what might happen" by reducing weight classes.
-So, you state in a different post that 300 kids in a youth tournament never make it to a high school team.  So, basically we are all doing something drastically wrong way before high school that greatly affects retention.
-So, you and others admit the good wrestling programs that miraculously found a way to be successful in the exact same environment as your school will actually get better. So they will still come into your dual and boot stomp your kids, but with just by 6-12 points less via forfeits.


What is most telling to me is a coach came onto this forum and stated he turned around a struggling program to full roster and 35+ kids every year.  I don't see one post asking him to share his formula for success.  Clearly it can be done  It is unfortunate a select few want to keep the blinders on, don't even want to hear it, and are trying to bring down all the others schools that are succeeding.



bigoil

I came from a team with a full JV and Freshman team in the 80's and my sons team won a team championship in 2020. I'm not necessarily on either side just don't like the arguments I've heard for keeping it at 14.

DocWrestling

asdf,

I don't disagree with anything you said but I know that wrestling doesn't even have an interest in all the other changes that I believe could help.  I am not arrogant enough to say going to 12 weight classes will change anything but many believe the status quo is a problem.  I guess I like change because it is change.  Can you imagine if nothing was changed and 98lbs was still the lightest weight class?  That weight class only existed because there were no weight cutting rules.

I also know that fewer and fewer people are becoming coaches.  Fewer people want to coach and there a fewer paid wrestling coaches positions in the state than there ever have been.  If the answer is finding great coaches like the aquinas coach then wrestling is doomed.  All sports are declining in number of coaches as much as they are athletes.  Fewer of those special coaches exist.

I will say many of the changes I would like to see would make it easier on coaches and maybe more would want to coach.  Things like start season after Thanksgiving, have a dead period over christmas break, get rid of all the stress of weight descent plans.  Do the fat test and be done.  Then I would maybe lower the allowed events to 13 to give another weekend off.  Let the diehard wrestlers wrestle in open tournaments prior to Thanksgiving and during the holiday dead period.

I do absolutely agree that  head coaches can lead to wrestlers but pretty tough these days to find middle school and JV coaches as well as high school coaches.  Ask old AD's with open jobs. They barely get any applications anymore.  I run a 26 team tournament.  Every year there is at least a 25% turnover in coaches.  So many coaches come and go.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

Numbers

I think 12 is the right number for Wisconsin.  There would still be opportunities in tournaments to allow a team to bring a few extra varsity caliber wrestlers to fill brackets. 

There are wrestlers that miss matches with injuries too.  Most programs do not fill all the weights.  School enrollments are declining almost everywhere.  That is why this is a national movement to reduce weight classes (to keep the sport competitive).

Minnesota went to 13 with Junior High helping to fill the team.  I think most that argue reducing from 14 would make the same points if we were at 16 and wanted to go to 14.