Badgers under Bono

[vsmf2010]

Well, it's easy to look past my larger point and want to nitpick over the transfer statement.  I will go ahead and comment on it, however.  The past 5 years the Badgers have had 2019 1, 2020 4, 2021 1, 2022 3, and this season 2 transfers in the starting lineup.  To my larger point I was making in comparing Bono and Davis not Wisconsin and Every other program like you fellas like to do.  Bono is working with a different landscape than Barry did.  Bono gets praise for many things.  And some he rightfully should as I pointed out above.  But developing wrestlers is not what I would consider one of his strengths.  I think he is an excellent recruiter.  And a master promoter.

Also, if you guys want to call Greg Kerkvliet a transfer then I guess we need to call Barnett one as well.  Flipping your commitment does not make you a transfer.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6588186-breaking-greg-kerkvliet-has-entered-the-transfer-portal

[The Legend]

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

[bigoil]

Well, it's easy to look past my larger point and want to nitpick over the transfer statement.  I will go ahead and comment on it, however.  The past 5 years the Badgers have had 2019 1, 2020 4, 2021 1, 2022 3, and this season 2 transfers in the starting lineup.  To my larger point I was making in comparing Bono and Davis not Wisconsin and Every other program like you fellas like to do.  Bono is working with a different landscape than Barry did.  Bono gets praise for many things.  And some he rightfully should as I pointed out above.  But developing wrestlers is not what I would consider one of his strengths.  I think he is an excellent recruiter.  And a master promoter.

Also, if you guys want to call Greg Kerkvliet a transfer then I guess we need to call Barnett one as well.  Flipping your commitment does not make you a transfer.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6588186-breaking-greg-kerkvliet-has-entered-the-transfer-portal

That's the difference but I'd be ok saying just Dean is a transfer.

You don't think Barnett has improved?

Zargo? Never placed at NJ states, was up to 12th this year prior to injuries.

Gomez hasn't improved? He was off two years, had an excellent year and was possibly the best wrestler this year, definitely the most exciting, until injury.

Model- far better on his feet in the first period. I'm guessing he was a room guy so to speak and he's been starting and could be a round of 12 guy.

DJ likely a top 5 kid his freshman year, while he was a top recruit, that was not the expectation for a true frosh season and this year is just as dangerous, a little bigger. Destroying guys ranked in the top 15.

Not as much to say about Otto and Dow as they haven't been in the lineup to judge their development. But I would comment I see a lot more confidence in Tyler.

Amos was a heralded recruit and many thought top 5 kid, he just was a little tentative last year pulling the trigger and had Greco and family influences last year. Looks much better this year.

Hilger is just a great athlete and the weight class keeps getting better, he's definitely improved his wrestling and completely changed his body to have improved results. March is upon us.

[vsmf2010]

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

He was enrolled, practicing, and had wrestled in the 2019 U23 World Championships while at Ohio St but had never suited up for them. Did take advantage of the transfer portal which is why I included him as a transfer. Prior to the portal he probably would have had to follow the old rules and sit because he was enrolled and on campus at Ohio St.

Before actually being enrolled at Ohio St he had previously committed to Minnesota and than Oklahoma St so 4 commitments, enrolled at 2 and wrestled at 1. Easy to be mistaken on this one. Need a score card to follow all of this. 

[BuckyMatt]

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

[The Legend]

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Yea I think you are getting who you want to hate mixed up here.  I am not Ben Askren.  I gave Bono praise for things I think he does well.  I do think he recruits heavy in the portal just as I think he recruits heavy for HS Athletes, and I never said he didn't.  You are a Pro Bono guy and will never see anything objectively, so I won't ask you too.  However, if you could simply go back and reread the larger point I was making when the topic is clearly under Badgers under Bono. I don't think there has been much difference between the two.  I think one does better at certain things and the other did better at certain things.  I know Bono is your god.  And he will never be someone who can be criticized in your eyes.  Let me ask you Matt did you have this same fire for Davis when he coached.  Maybe with a guy like you in his corner he could have been better?


Changing the goal posts?   The Badgers had 4 portal guys in their lineup 1 year and 3 in another what is the argument?  That PSU HWY be considered a transfer okay you win!  Who gives a crap.  This topic isn't about PSU it's about Bono and the Badgers.  Who is really changing the goal posts here?

[The Legend]

Let me post this as well.  I felt there needed to be a change when Barry was let go.  I thought Bono was one of the top two guys up for the job. My posts previous to this are a direct reflection of my thoughts and feelings of looking at where they are now from where they were when he took over.  He has done some things well and some things I think not so well. 

Just a quick look. Bono's 41-28 in 5 years.  Barry was 39-28 in his last 5 years.

[bigoil]

Let me post this as well.  I felt there needed to be a change when Barry was let go.  I thought Bono was one of the top two guys up for the job. My posts previous to this are a direct reflection of my thoughts and feelings of looking at where they are now from where they were when he took over.  He has done some things well and some things I think not so well. 

Just a quick look. Bono's 41-28 in 5 years.  Barry was 39-28 in his last 5 years.

So show who you feel isn't developing and why? I defended Barry for quite a while as our resources were restrained, and still are at UW. However, the product we are putting on the mat is far more successful and exciting.

[BuckyMatt]

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Yea I think you are getting who you want to hate mixed up here.  I am not Ben Askren.  I gave Bono praise for things I think he does well.  I do think he recruits heavy in the portal just as I think he recruits heavy for HS Athletes, and I never said he didn't.  You are a Pro Bono guy and will never see anything objectively, so I won't ask you too.  However, if you could simply go back and reread the larger point I was making when the topic is clearly under Badgers under Bono. I don't think there has been much difference between the two.  I think one does better at certain things and the other did better at certain things.  I know Bono is your god.  And he will never be someone who can be criticized in your eyes.  Let me ask you Matt did you have this same fire for Davis when he coached.  Maybe with a guy like you in his corner he could have been better?


Changing the goal posts?   The Badgers had 4 portal guys in their lineup 1 year and 3 in another what is the argument?  That PSU HWY be considered a transfer okay you win!  Who gives a crap.  This topic isn't about PSU it's about Bono and the Badgers.  Who is really changing the goal posts here?

Who I want to hate??  I don't hate anyone!  I certainly don't hate Ben Askren; I've said in previous posts I think he is good for the state of Wisconsin Wrestling.  Do I wish he and Bono got a long, absolutely.  But do I Hate him, or you, or anyone else that disagrees with me, absolutely not.  If we can't have civil discourse or conversation without saying we hate the other side, that's a sad testament to our society.  In the last few weeks, I've had very polite and engaging private conversations with people that may have differing opinions than me; Tim Spray, Ernie Millard and Tristan Moran all about the Badgers and Coach Bono.  I think all 3 parties would agree it was civil, respectful, and criticism's were made and heard on both sides. All 3 great people I enjoy talking wrestling with!

In regards to your question on Barry Davis, I was indeed a strong supporter of his but the last few years definitely waned in my support and felt it was time for a change. 

[Healthy and happy]

Was he actually enrolled at OSU? If he was I stand corrected.  But I still believe he was never a part of that team. He def never suited up for them.

Come on man, the goal line keeps changing to support an argument that Bono is a terrible coach and developer and lives at the transfer portal and will over recruit a kid through the portal.

First the argument was that "Bono built a house next to the portal" (Ben's words on Flo).  Someone pointed out that Missouri has 5 transfers on their team and Wisconsin only has 3.

Then the argument was that those Missouri kids weren't starters and Wisconsin uses the portal to get starters.  It was then pointed out that Nebraska has 4 starters on their team and Iowa and Penn State has 2 through the portal.

Now you think that because Kerk never wrestled a match for OSU, he's not really a transfer?? But the NCAA made him enter the Transfer portal?

Keep in mind that Brands over-recruited stud recruit Wyatt Henson to sign Real Woods and Cael over-recruited Michael Beard to sign Gabe Dean.  Everyone is doing it now so the idea to vilify Bono because he's used the transfer portal is silly in my opinion.  And if the argument then switches to "you wouldn't need to use the portal if you developed your own kids", it applies to every school too!

-Matt Deadman

Well said...nice to have take based on reality

[Healthy and happy]

You must be having two separate conversations in your head.  I never said a word about the last chance tournament. There you go again with Missouri has 5 so and so has 12.  Look the Badgers use the portal to fill starting spots.  Can you deny this?  My whole point on that topic is you wouldn't have to if you were developing your own guys better.  I didn't say guys were not improving I said I felt B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited Moreso than Bono.   And I watch the matches very intently!  Thank you.   If you do an honest assessment, you will see B.Davis last 5 years compared to C.Bono first 5 years are very similar.  Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.  It's not terrible.

You need to get with the current times, the transfer portal is used by everyone in every sport and more so now with NIL.  Bono does NOT use it any more than other coaches (in all sports).  UW football got 15 new guys via the transfer portal.  Heck look at Kyle Ruschell down at UT-Chattaooga, he had 5 new transfers coming from schools like Ohio St, Oklahoma and Stanford.

Enough of this discussion, this is a Ben driven mean spirited talking point

[1Iota]

[quote author=novice wrestler

You need to get with the current times, the transfer portal is used by everyone in every sport and more so now with NIL.  Bono does NOT use it any more than other coaches (in all sports).  UW football got 15 new guys via the transfer portal.  Heck look at Kyle Ruschell down at UT-Chattaooga, he had 5 new transfers coming from schools like Ohio St, Oklahoma and Stanford.

Enough of this discussion, this is a Ben driven mean spirited talking point
[/quote]

You must be having two separate conversations in your head.  I never said a word about the last chance tournament. There you go again with Missouri has 5 so and so has 12.  Look the Badgers use the portal to fill starting spots.  Can you deny this?  My whole point on that topic is you wouldn't have to if you were developing your own guys better.  I didn't say guys were not improving I said I felt B.Davis did a better job developing the wrestlers he recruited Moreso than Bono.   And I watch the matches very intently!  Thank you.   If you do an honest assessment, you will see B.Davis last 5 years compared to C.Bono first 5 years are very similar.  Not sure how I feel about that to be honest.  It's not terrible.

You need to get with the current times, the transfer portal is used by everyone in every sport and more so now with NIL.  Bono does NOT use it any more than other coaches (in all sports).  UW football got 15 new guys via the transfer portal.  Heck look at Kyle Ruschell down at UT-Chattaooga, he had 5 new transfers coming from schools like Ohio St, Oklahoma and Stanford.

Enough of this discussion, this is a Ben driven mean spirited talking point

That is all this is, and it's a ridiculous criticism.  I don't hear a lot of football fans complaining about Fickel's portal results.

Someone wrote that Ben is good for Wisconsin wrestling.  I disagree.  Ben is good for AWA, which in fairness is how he makes his money.  He doesn't owe UW or Wisconsin wrestling anything, but he isn't good for it. 

[npope]

Someone wrote that Ben is good for Wisconsin wrestling.  I disagree.  Ben is good for AWA, which in fairness is how he makes his money.  He doesn't owe UW or Wisconsin wrestling anything, but he isn't good for it. 

Well, it depends on on how you define "Wisconsin wrestling" doesn't it? AWA has upped the bar in terms of élite quality wrestlers coming out of high school in the state of Wisconsin - would any one argue against that point?

However, if AWA (Askren) is directing talent away from the UW, is that supporting Wisconsin wrestling? I am not convinced that it is necessarily "damaging Wisconsin wrestling." Personally, I don't think the UW and Wisconsin wrestling are synonymous - they aren't one-in-the-same. Other than the superficial "Ben wants to be the coach at UW" and will under-cut another coach," I don't know if Askren is doing "Wisconsin wrestling" a disservice. I don't think Askren owes blind obedience to the UW. He has earned his right to a separate an individual opinion. That said, I would only hope that he exercises it with maturity. I don't know what all of the issues are between Askren and Bono/Davis are/were, but he owes it to his wrestlers (and his own legacy) to be frank and honest about it.

[wrestle03]

Bono has done no better job than Davis.  It's been FIVE years and this team is tied for second to last place in the Big Ten at 1-7.  The numbers don't lie.  Keep drinking the Bono KOOL AID.  The guy cant land a big in state recruit and that cant be argued.  If your okay with 1-7 in the Big Ten then thats fine.....he's done nothing little to nothing for the program in the five years he's been here.

[Ghetto]

This thread never ceases to amaze me.

Can't land in-state recruits- True. Partially a program issue. Partially beyond Bono's control
Alumni/Community Support- Is there any? Travel to NCAAs and see what Penn State/Iowa bring and then tell me.
Transfers vs. recruits- Brought in Amos, Hamiti, Gomez, Lamont, Zargo. Seems like a mix to me.
Depth- Hurt by not landing in-state recruits. Also effected by roster limits. Directly contributed to dual losses.
There's no RTC to speak of. That's a problem.

NIL can't always be funded by the school. We don't have any big donors, or even small donors. If Penn State goes to a kid and offers them NIL money that is bigger than a scholarship, they take it. Where does that money come from at Wisconsin?

We ask for the world, but we don't give anything in return in this state.





I'm not defending Bono. I'm also not running a campaign against him.