Badgers under Bono

Started by Hungus, February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM

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1Iota

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 01:25:11 PM
Quote from: statman on February 17, 2023, 12:37:04 PMJust to be clear otoole is not a kid and hasn't been since high school. He lost a match almost everyone thought he would win. That is up for discussion and criticism without the "he is just a kid so we can't talk about it" excuse.

Fair point he is not a kid. this wasnt talking about the match this was using a person in a sarcastic comment to attack Ben.

I understand you are close to the situation, but Ben better be able to handle a little sarcasm.  He certainly disshes it out. 

As far as O'toole is concerned, it's going to be fun to watch him wrestle Carr again.  He is wicked smart wrestler that will make adjustments. 

Vir Fortis

Quote from: kmoc33 on February 17, 2023, 08:12:57 AM
Quote from: mkm13 on February 15, 2023, 09:00:23 PMOtoole got smoked tonight. Does that mean he didnt improve at Missouri?

this is so idiotic, even if it was meant as sarcasm. Trying to take a shot at Ben and using a kids name to do it is low and pathetic.

in case your are just stupid, yes Keegan has improved. Became a world champ and a national champ while at Missouri and suffered his second loss in college on a night he wasnt at his best vs a exceptionally good kid with only 3 college losses.

Well...is it a shot at a kid if it was obvious sarcasm? Not really.

And if it IS...then it's one shot at one kid as opposed to one guy taking a shot at 30 kids fairly regularly, no?


Yes, of course O'Toole has improved. He's an incredible Wrestler. I DO find the pearl clutching her a bit disingenuous. Keegan O'Toole is a NC, World Champ, 3rd place as a True Frosh. Nobody is making a real argument that he's not a dog.

I've long been told to ignore the "transitive property," as it pertains to Wresting. So I won't take David Carr 7-5 over Dean Hamiti and David Carr 7-2 over Keegan O'Toole to mean anything other than Carr is REALLY good, but I think it was a fair sarcastic shot. Not at O'Toole and the absurdity of it being O'Toole and how obviously it WASN'T directed at O'Toole being the reason why.

If it was a genuine insult of him, then I'd say it was below the belt, but it was obviously intended for someone else.

jjgris

I think lateral move at best. I was excited for the change and I was definitely ready to move beyond the Barry era.  Unfortunately I was wrong, and I don't think we have moved the program forward with Bono.



asdf

I agree it is a lateral move at best at this point from Barry to Bono.  I expected better results by now from Bono/Reader.  That it looks like UW is trending the same as 6 years ago, yet now the ability to use the transfer portal presents more as a regression IMO. Simply put Davis did the same as Bono is doing now without the advantage of being able to get 2-3 starters/year via the portal.

Being a Big Ten program, a great campus and yet running neck and neck in the rankings to mid-major SDSU where Bono/Reader left is unfortunate.




littleguy301

While I may have sounded critical of Bono in the past, I still truly believe he was the beat choice at the time and still believe he is the right choice at the current time.

I have no idea who the Badger would bring in that could replace Bono and do the same job he has done.

The Badgers other finalist for the job, Coach Hahn that is currently SDSU head coach has done very well though one could say he had the pleasure of stepping in with what Bono had created. Maybe or maybe not!

Let Bono do his thing. Changes have happened for sure. Maybe not what some has wanted but it is a different feel.

Quote from: asdf on February 18, 2023, 10:52:57 PMI agree it is a lateral move at best at this point from Barry to Bono.  I expected better results by now from Bono/Reader.  That it looks like UW is trending the same as 6 years ago, yet now the ability to use the transfer portal presents more as a regression IMO. Simply put Davis did the same as Bono is doing now without the advantage of being able to get 2-3 starters/year via the portal.

Being a Big Ten program, a great campus and yet running neck and neck in the rankings to mid-major SDSU where Bono/Reader left is unfortunate.





True statement but maybe SDSU is doing well because Bono built a foundation.
If life is tough,,,,wear a helmet

bigoil

I must be watching a different product than the rest of you.

We have 5 legit chances of AA.
The environment is the best I've experienced even back to the 80's.
The style is explosive for the most of the wrestlers.

Did we lose some duals we shouldn't have, yes, that's frustrating. Down a top 2 wrestler it is tough to win, you seen that even with Iowa.

I would say depth is a concern but when we put our 10 best out there, we are a top team.

Side note, Lamont is also coming along the last couple of meets, not sure if it was an injury, getting used to weight but he looks much better.

Handles II

Reader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.


bigoil

Quote from: Handles II on February 19, 2023, 08:33:37 AMReader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.


That's awesome, it was also Coach Reader's birthday.

vsmf2010

Quote from: bigoil on February 19, 2023, 06:54:48 AMI must be watching a different product than the rest of you.

We have 5 legit chances of AA.
The environment is the best I've experienced even back to the 80's.
The style is explosive for the most of the wrestlers.

Did we lose some duals we shouldn't have, yes, that's frustrating. Down a top 2 wrestler it is tough to win, you seen that even with Iowa.

I would say depth is a concern but when we put our 10 best out there, we are a top team.

Side note, Lamont is also coming along the last couple of meets, not sure if it was an injury, getting used to weight but he looks much better.

I am with you. I attend every home dual (and have been for years) and watch every match that is not at home and I like what I see. The style is different and the conditioning is different. If healthy I would be surprised if they are not a top 10 team this year at the NCAA's.

PAUL

I'd say if they get to 5 All Americans and finish well as a team it would really help to finally put this argument to bed.  However, that is a big if, and while I really, really hope they have a great March to shut people up, it seems like over the recent past they generally under-perform a bit.  Not a lot mind you, but just a handful of close losses that prevent it from being a fantastic tournament.  And I get it, this environment is SUPER tough and competitive and basically everybody is darn good, so please don't read more into this.  However, turning a few of these around and sprinkling in a few upsets would be so awesome and go a long way toward shutting up guys like me who have no idea what it takes to win at that level or about the pressures that these teams face.   Go Bucky!

TomM

Quote from: bigoil on February 19, 2023, 08:51:08 AM
Quote from: Handles II on February 19, 2023, 08:33:37 AMReader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.
That's awesome, it was also Coach Reader's birthday.

(Please NOTE: 'sarcasm setting' ON)

Well, It would have only satisfied me if they had been at every single Sectional on Saturday. All 16 is the only way I'd be happy.
Seek excellence and truth instead of fame -John Prime
Courage is grace under pressure - Ernest Hemingway
Advocating "matside weigh-in" since 1997
"That's why they wrestle the matches"

fryguy518

Quote from: Handles II on February 19, 2023, 08:33:37 AMReader and Gross were at the individual Sectional I was at. Checking out the wrestling room, weight room, talked to lots of coaches and wrestlers from what I noticed. And this was a day they hosted a dual in Madison.

Bono was at the Ind. sectionals I was at as well.

BuckyMatt

If if's and buts were cherry and nuts...

We all know the end to that.  However, IF Austin wrestles the whole year, we Win Midlands (lost out on 1st place by 8 points), we beat Illinois (lost 17-18) we beat Northwestern (lost 17-18 and even if Austin finishes and loses to Thomas, doubtful he gets pinned and gives up 6 team points like the MFF did), we beat Minnesota (lost 15-19).

With that "IF" record, we are 4-4 in Big Ten, 11-5 overall, and have victories over #7 Cornell (actually happened), #12 Princeton (actually happened), #28 Illinois (hypothetical), #24 Purdue (actually happened), a tie that came down to 3rd tiebreaker against #2 Iowa with the largest home crowd ever to watch a Badger match (actually happened), a win over #9 Northwestern (hypothetical), a win over #23 Minnesota (hypothetical) and a win over #16 Northern Iowa (actually happened).  This on top of the Midlands tournament champions (hypothetical).

As Badger fans, do we want to rely on moral victories, hypotheticals, and IF's?  Absolutely not. However if you can't see that the team is better than the record indicates and that the energy, marketability, and dual atmosphere is better than it was with Barry, I don't know what to tell you.  Certain people do not want Bono to succeed and will not give him credit no matter how well he does and unfortunately some of those people happen to be very powerful in the Wisconsin Wrestling community.

The season isn't over yet, it's my understanding Austin is healthy and ready to tear some heads off!  Let's see how the Big Ten's and NCAA's go for our beloved (for some) Badgers and On Wisconsin!

Matt Deadman

wrestlemania

#73
When your wrestling room has concrete pillars in it you can't worry about who the coach is, because it doesn't matter.

I think if you look at the level of alumni and booster support for each B1G program (not the in-school support) and compared them it would not surprise me that it would roughly correspond to the finish of each program in the conference meet and perhaps duals as well.

Things will change when the Badgers have the resources and facilities to compete with the best teams in the league ergo the best teams in the country. And when the UWAD stops worrying about rules compliance to allow the top amateur wrestlers to compete at the RTC. Simply changing coaches every five years to get the same results is just self-defeating.

And then we have to deal with unique Wisconsin problem of non-UW alumni state club leader determined to control outcomes for the program in some fashion through the means of extortion.  Name me another D-I program which has that problem. Amazing isn't it the state has just one D-I college wrestling program and there's a group of coaches, club leaders and fans within in state who wish injure or attack it some fashion. That's a lot for a coaching staff to have to deal with so to read that UW coaches were out there hitting the grassroots yesterday is a positive sign.

Obviously Coach Bono is doing more in terms of marketing and promotion providing the program some energy compared to the last few season of the Davis regime but I wonder if this was more due to Davis knowing the end of his tenure was near (although his inability to define when that end would finally be even exasperated Barry Alvarez to the point where he made that decision for Davis) and just tried to get the program back to a competitive level after the disaster of 2012, which he did.

So again, until these systemic problems are fixed (which I hope Coach Bono can at least start the process of doing), UW wrestling will be pretty much where it is and where it's always been: not in first place. And many coaches have led UW to this point. When someone like Russ Hellickson bails out on UW and the state of Wisconsin for Ohio State, even though it happened a long time ago, I think that's sends a pretty strong message as to what he believed his chances were of winning a B1G title and NCAA in Madison in comparison to Columbus, don't ya think?

One should also point out, in observing these boards for many years, is that it drives some in-state fans crazy to see Wisconsin-native wrestlers have success at other schools. Especially when there hasn't been a native UW national champion since Andy Rein back in 1980. Unfortunately they should get used to it. Just because UW has a pretty campus and is in the B1G means nothing. Elite college wrestlers don't choose a school so they can look at pretty things. They choose schools based on whether they believe, when they are being recruited, the coaching staff, practice partners and support environment can train and support their goal of winning a national championship and make the Olympic team. And for some of those wrestlers (and yes grades are an issue too) they just don't see themselves having that success in Madison like it or not, especially when the Madison program is limited to how many athletes they can have in the wrestling room (again, another systemic problem!) to where they can no longer just vacumm-up a bunch of in-state walk-ons to provide practice partners and competition to the scholarship wrestlers.

Honestly, given the lack of resources UW has put towards wrestling, that it has been as competitive as it's been (middle of the pack or not) is probably a miracle we as fans should be celebrating instead being disgusted by. Of course you want better, everyone does. And there is a way to be better. The question is, is the UWAD willing to do so?




Ghetto

Quote from: wrestlemania on February 19, 2023, 07:19:30 PMWhen your wrestling room has concrete pillars in it you can't worry about who the coach is, because it doesn't matter.

I think if you look at the level of alumni and booster support for each B1G program (not the in-school support) and compared them it would not surprise me that it would roughly correspond to the finish of each program in the conference meet and perhaps duals as well.

Things will change when the Badgers have the resources and facilities to compete with the best teams in the league ergo the best teams in the country. And when the UWAD stops worrying about rules compliance to allow the top amateur wrestlers to compete at the RTC. Simply changing coaches every five years to get the same results is just self-defeating.

And then we have to deal with unique Wisconsin problem of non-UW alumni state club leader determined to control outcomes for the program in some fashion through the means of extortion.  Name me another D-I program which has that problem. Amazing isn't it the state has just one D-I college wrestling program and there's a group of coaches, club leaders and fans within in state who wish injure or attack it some fashion. That's a lot for a coaching staff to have to deal with so to read that UW coaches were out there hitting the grassroots yesterday is a positive sign.

Obviously Coach Bono is doing more in terms of marketing and promotion providing the program some energy compared to the last few season of the Davis regime but I wonder if this was more due to Davis knowing the end of his tenure was near (although his inability to define when that end would finally be even exasperated Barry Alvarez to the point where he made that decision for Davis) and just tried to get the program back to a competitive level after the disaster of 2012, which he did.

So again, until these systemic problems are fixed (which I hope Coach Bono can at least start the process of doing), UW wrestling will be pretty much where it is and where it's always been: not in first place. And many coaches have led UW to this point. When someone like Russ Hellickson bails out on UW and the state of Wisconsin for Ohio State, even though it happened a long time ago, I think that's sends a pretty strong message as to what he believed his chances were of winning a B1G title and NCAA in Madison in comparison to Columbus, don't ya think?

One should also point out, in observing these boards for many years, is that it drives some in-state fans crazy to see Wisconsin-native wrestlers have success at other schools. Especially when there hasn't been a native UW national champion since Andy Rein back in 1980. Unfortunately they should get used to it. Just because UW has a pretty campus and is in the B1G means nothing. Elite college wrestlers don't choose a school so they can look at pretty things. They choose schools based on whether they believe, when they are being recruited, the coaching staff, practice partners and support environment can train and support their goal of winning a national championship and make the Olympic team. And for some of those wrestlers (and yes grades are an issue too) they just don't see themselves having that success in Madison like it or not, especially when the Madison program is limited to how many athletes they can have in the wrestling room (again, another systemic problem!) to where they can no longer just vacumm-up a bunch of in-state walk-ons to provide practice partners and competition to the scholarship wrestlers.

Honestly, given the lack of resources UW has put towards wrestling, that it has been as competitive as it's been (middle of the pack or not) is probably a miracle we as fans should be celebrating instead being disgusted by. Of course you want better, everyone does. And there is a way to be better. The question is, is the UWAD willing to do so?





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As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove