Badgers under Bono

Started by Hungus, February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM

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BadgerOne

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.
It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.

honestabe

Quote from: scrambledeggs on March 18, 2023, 04:07:53 PMI give Bono a slight break on his success due to the fact that many of the wrestlers on the teams the last few years are still Barry's recruits. Sure it is his job to make them better and I definitely see improvement in the ones left over that are graduating this year. Next year he will have all of his guys, if you can bring in a few guys between 157 and 184 we should do alright. 125, 133, 141, 149, 165, 174, and 197 should all be a bit better than this year, we will lose some at HWT. 


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.

novice wrestler

Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM
Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.
It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.
Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

BadgerOne

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM
Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.
It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.
Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?
Well, I don't think the commitment is for "4 years" per se, but can be longer if it takes longer to graduate.   It is my understanding that the redshirt year counts toward the 9.9, but I think the Olympic year might not be charged to the 9.9 (though I'm not 100% on this).

1Iota

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM
Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.
It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?   Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.
Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

My guess is it would effect the amount of money they would provide for that year.  Wrestling scholerships are rarely a full ride.  In other words the program is given a total dollar amount that makes up 9.9 scholerships.  The program usually divides that money amongst many wrestlers with partial scholerships.  Only a few absolute studs get full rides.  So, if takes a grey shirt year, my guess is his 5th year could see the amount of money he receives adjusted.

BadgerOne

#230
Quote from: 1Iota on March 22, 2023, 04:00:09 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 08:14:03 AM
Quote from: novice wrestler on March 22, 2023, 07:49:34 AM
Quote from: BadgerOne on March 22, 2023, 12:41:46 AM
Quote from: Razor Ramon on March 20, 2023, 10:05:58 PMHere something to think about. If Amos and Hamiti redshirt next year, is there a possibility that they look for a change and transfer? It's happened to UW before with Howe and Rutt...

Bono won't redshirt guys who can start.
It probably goes deeper than that.  Aren't their scholarships limited to like 9.9 and planned out into the years to come?  Some guy may have to pay their own way if they redshirt?

There are rules in place governing that and so the scholarship is paid every year.
Ok, but if they commit a scholarship to a kid for 4 years and he then decided he wants to redshirt or take an Olympic year then where does the money come from for that 5th year?

My guess is it would effect the amount of money they would provide for that year.  Wrestling scholerships are rarely a full ride.  In other words the program is given a total dollar amount that makes up 9.9 scholerships.  The program usually divides that money amongst many wrestlers with partial scholerships.  Only a few absolute studs get full rides.  So, if takes a grey shirt year, my guess is his 5th year could see the amount of money he receives adjusted.

Depends on the school, but I think the top schools give out quite a few full rides as they need to do so in order to get top talent and fill their roster with walk-ons and minimal scholarships.  I wouldn't be surprised if some gave out 5 or more full rides.

DocWrestling

It has been mentioned before but the scholarship rules really reward programs with instate recruits because their tuition is less.

Attending UW with in-state tuition (MN kids get in-state tuition through reciprocity rule) costs about $25,000

Attending UW from out of state costs $50,000

If Jimmy from Cheese City, WI gets a .50 scholarship he has to pay $12,500 on his own
If Bobby from Fibbers, IL gets a .50 scholarship he still has to pay $25,000

Thus to lure out of state athletes you have to offer more scholarship equivalencies and you only get 9.9

Or said in another way if Jimmy from WI goes to Missouri and gets a .50 scholarship he is basically paying the same amount as if he was attending UW with no scholarship.

What is not included in these are the ways around the NCAA limitations?
1) Academic scholarships- If you are smart they can find you unlimited academic scholarships.  Just like admission requirement every school can treat these differently
2) The new elephant in the room-  NIL Money.  Anything goes now.  If the local rich guy loves wrestling and wants to donate $50,000 each year well you don't have to even use a scholarship on that guy because the rich guy can just pay his college expenses for him in return for a couple hours of work.  I have to imagine Penn St and Iowa lead the country in NIL money.
Of Course, this is only my opinion and no one elses!

asdf

#232
Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.



Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.


Ghetto

Isn't Hahn doing it with Bono's guys?

Mark Grey was doing most of the work in the Cornell room. Yianni even said he wasn't sure what Rob Koll did at Cornell (other than win, I guess)
As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

asdf

Quote from: Ghetto on March 22, 2023, 11:04:32 PMIsn't Hahn doing it with Bono's guys?

Mark Grey was doing most of the work in the Cornell room. Yianni even said he wasn't sure what Rob Koll did at Cornell (other than win, I guess)


-No.  Read somewhere that after Bono left, Hahn was left with a room around 17 kids.

-Checked SDSU roster then and now.  SDSU does not have a single wrestler on the roster this year that was on Bono's roster his last year there (16'-17').  Assume you are implying National runner-up T. Sloan is a Bono guy.  His first year at SDSU (did a redshirt) was a full year after Bono left. Either way, here is Sloan's progress year to year.

-18-19'-Redshirt.
-19-20'--21-6, COVID yr, no tourney
-20-21'--6th at Big12, NCAA qualifer went 3-2
-21-22'--2nd at Big12, NCAA qualifier, went 1-2, made world team.
-this year-2nd place NCAA

-If you want to hang you hat that Bono "got him in the room" a full year after he left, keep up with the Kool-aid. Either way, Bono had absolutely no influence on his progress and development the past few years (or any of them the past 5 years).  If that is the case, give me one Badger that has shown a 5 year progression like Sloan's.

-For the "out of state scholly...only 9.9 scholly" crowd.  I noted that 25% of SDSU team is from South Dakota this year.  Heavy MN and IA influence.  One would hope Reader would bring in IA recruits, Mn via Gross connection (Apple Valley), so why is Bono unable to get kids in from neighboring MN and IA? 

-Again-SDSU beat us at NCAA's this year, but not with "Bono's guys"


novice wrestler

Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM
Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.



Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.


[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice. 

walden_hiker

Quote from: novice wrestler on March 23, 2023, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM
Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.



Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.


[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice. 
+1

Grapl

[/quote
Generally speaking when you are in a chat forum like this you hopefully have a desire to support the University and a program, you call it Kool-aid drinking.  To each his own. If you always like to think and look negatively at things then you go ahead and drink the pond water.  Kool-aid is a little better tasting for me. We all have a choice.

Support can come in many ways....constructive criticism can be considered a positive or a negative.  Just depends on your perspective.

Pilot

I think Bono is a good coach and I think Barry Davis was a good coach. However as Wrestlemania pointed out several pages ago, Wisconsin is very lacking in its wrestling facilities. Google wrestling facilities at Minnesota and Missouri and compare them to the old wrestling practice room at Camp Randall that has pillars in it. My local high school has a much better practice and training facility than the Badgers.
Russ Hellickson had as deep of Wisconsin roots as any Badger coach and he left Wisconsin to go to a better coaching situation at Ohio State. If I was a top notch high school wrestler and saw the Badger wrestling facilities, I would question the school's commitment to wrestling.
Recruiting advantages Wisconsin has are being a Big Ten school and strong academics. But other Big Ten schools are just as strong academically and have better facilities. Until facilities are improved, UW wrestling coaches will be recruiting with one hand tied behind their backs.
A potential positive is new football coach Luke Fickell, who is a strong wrestling backer. There is talk of building a new football practice facility on the site of the Camp Randall shell. The wrestling community should be encouraging to include a new wrestling practice room in that facility or else include it in a remodeling of the McClain Center.

BuckyMatt

#239
Quote from: asdf on March 22, 2023, 10:43:43 PM
Quote from: honestabe on March 22, 2023, 08:41:36 AM[quote author=scrambledeggs link=msg=675837 date=1679173673


5 years at a program seems like a long enough time to add your own recruits and develop young guys on the roster in my honestabe opinion, but looking at the roster he has been utilizing the recruits that were brought in by the former regime or using the portal to fill spots. Saying "once he gets all the older guys out of the program and his own guys in then it will be different, you're talking about half of the line up this year that are not "his recruits". Guys Like Mark Gray at Cornell, or Damian Hahn are doing just fine with the former regime's "guys" Just seems like with the evidence at hand I don't see any big change in the level the Badgers will compete at amongst the rest of the field which isn't ideal.



Best post on here in a long time.  None of the Kool-Aid drinkers will even acknowledge it.

Kool Aid Drinkers!!  Gotta love name callers! 

Barnett, Lamont, Zargo, Gomez, Hamiti, Otto, Amos were Bono recruits.

Model, Dow and Hilger were Davis recruits but in fairness, both Garrett and Trent decided to stick around for their 6th year on campus, 5th year competing.  If they didn't like Bono and company, if they didn't feel that they were getting developed, if they didn't love the environment and team, why not 1) grad transfer 2) move on with their lives and start their careers. 

As far as Bono using the Portal, EVERYTEAM is using it: Penn State had three starters 2021/2022 (Dean and Hildebrant, Kerk), Iowa consistently has multiple starters from the portal (Lugo, Desanto, Eirman, Woods). Find me a team that doesn't have transfers on it?  Wisconsin had 3 total transfers this year (Meicher, Gomez, Lamont); most other schools had more, including Missouri with 5. It's (fortunately or unfortunately) the way of the sport right now but to imply Bono uses it more or less than others is disingenuous.