Badgers under Bono

Started by Hungus, February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM

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Hungus

5 years into the Chris Bono era in Madison
The question I have, Are the Badgers better under Bono then they were under Davis?
Just wondering everyone's opinion
You're killing me Smalls!!!

dad 2 5

FUNNY! I was just thinking that same question this morning. Answer - not seeing it. Still too many holes in the line up and the fire I thought I saw to grind out matches seems to be gone too. They seem to be hanging on at the end hoping it is enough.

leg turk

Definitely a lateral coaching change. I thought things would've definitely got better, but I'm not seeing it. Lots of holes yet is right.

PAUL

I think they are a good program.  I also think that the Wisconsin "leakage", whatever the reasons for it, really hurts the program both in terms of talent but also in the excitement factor.  Not to beat a dead horse (or start another dreadful 3 week argument on here) but I think the interest (and the success) would grow substantially if they were able to keep more of the in-state kids. 

benaskren

And who on their team has had a better 2022-23 than their previous year??

Mark of a good coach is year over year improvement in athletes.  Dont see that happening with Bono, it is unfortunate for the athletes that they arent getting better guidance.

Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason.
Ben Askren
Founder and Owner at AWA
askrenbros@gmail.com
www.awawisconsin.com

Numbers

Quote from: heavy9278 on February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM5 years into the Chris Bono era in Madison
The question I have, Are the Badgers better under Bono then they were under Davis?
Just wondering everyone's opinion


Ask again in 5 weeks.

bigoil

Barnett is better (he may have won 5-4 today but he was the aggressor), gomez is better, Model is better, Dean is great and also better, Amos is better.

Zargo I think was better, then was injured. Remember Joe never placed in NJ states, I'd say he has definitely improved since walking in.

Dow has improved as well, has more confidence.

Hilger is just good.

Otto didn't start last year so can't say much. 

I also believe some of these guys are trying new things.



ocwrestler

Why does this question constantly come up? What are all of you looking for? A top 3 to 5 finish every year? That's ridiculous expectations outside of Penn State and Iowa.
I wonder if the Penn, Rutgers, NC state, Arizona state and numerous other schools fans do this stuff every year and question the leadership. Outside of Penn State and Iowa you're just not going to get that every year.
I think Bono, Reader and Gross are doing a good job. Especially when you have the biggest club in the state actively rooting against you and steering their kids elsewhere. A change in leadership to Ben Askren would be another lateral move in my opinion especially since he has zero NCAA head coaching experience. Yes I know he's great at wrestling and his club is very successful, that doesn't necessarily mean he is going to be a great Big10 coach. There really are only two great big10 coaches if your measurement is top 3 every year.

benaskren

Bigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.
Ben Askren
Founder and Owner at AWA
askrenbros@gmail.com
www.awawisconsin.com

bigoil

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.
Ben,

Who on my list isn't better?

ocwrestler

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Although I think Nick Becker is an excellent wrestler and coach I do not think he would be able to move UW into the top 3 to 5 year after year.

Vir Fortis

Quote from: heavy9278 on February 11, 2023, 05:24:33 PM5 years into the Chris Bono era in Madison
The question I have, Are the Badgers better under Bono then they were under Davis?
Just wondering everyone's opinion


It's a tough question to ask at this point.

You have the state's premier club and they are pretty open about refusing any contact with the Badgers(their top Wrestlers). So that's...not really different than with Davis, what's different is that those kids are consistently becoming D1 Studs.

Now you also have Pinnacle and the Cross Brothers who are working in less populated area's and they're producing some great athletes. Hopke could probably AA right not(not really, but he's very good).

So the level of talent in-state going to UW hasn't really changed.

But Bono is looking under every stone it would appear and finding some really good talent. Gross, Gomez, Hamiti, Zargo is a kid I think has a lot more upside, Amos was obviously a blue chip recruit.


Someone said ask in 5 weeks. I'll say give him until the end of next year. If you can get a kid like Davino, Ferrari or...that monster up in Amery, I'd argue things are moving in the right direction and getting better.


Covid also threw a wrench into things. Lets see how Rivera, Estrada, Rowley...there is a lot of young talent.


Hopefully we can all be grownup's and there can be a sit-down like adults. Until then, Wisconsin is not going to be the best version it can be. Frankly, even if they're winning, it still hurts as everyone here who is a Badger fan wants to see Sinclair, Millard, Messenbrink, Mirasola(s) and others who aren't considering Wisconsin wrestle at Wisconsin...basically the kids we've watched for years.

It's now "OWED" to anyone, we're not entitled, so please, anyone feigning outrage or benign talking points spare me. It's nice to see O'Toole win. It'd hit different if he did so at Wisconsin.



I'll also just add this...if you measuring the Badgers success vs Ohio State, Iowa and PSU, I think every team in the Country is going to fall WELL short.

PSU is getting BETTER the next few years with their young talent and then the Bassett and Gibson families along with...so many other elite wrestlers it'd almost be funny if it wasn't for Ohio State pulling in the best recruiting class in THEIR history last year and Iowa...IOWA pulling in THEIR best recruiting class ever this year. Seriously...if IOWA throws their best team out, Ohio State has THEIR best recruiting class(even better than the one with Phillips who was a Kyle Snyder, Spencer Lee type Recruit who just got burned out, but for those who don't remember...Logan Stieber was unanimously regarded as the #2 recruit...from his own HS...in his own class).



So we'll see. I'm optimistic though and I think Bono has them going the right way.

Vir Fortis

Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 07:07:02 PMAnd who on their team has had a better 2022-23 than their previous year??

Mark of a good coach is year over year improvement in athletes.  Dont see that happening with Bono, it is unfortunate for the athletes that they arent getting better guidance.

Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason.


The pettiness and adults in the room setting aside their collective egos that has been referenced in previous posts...guess that's not gonna happen, huh?

Did Gomez not beat YIANNI this year?

And the whole other list of Wrestlers already named?

Vir Fortis

Quote from: ocwrestler on February 11, 2023, 08:37:57 PM
Quote from: benaskren on February 11, 2023, 08:08:07 PMBigoil(Mike), let me borrow your rose colored glasses and maybe ill see the same thing as you.

OC- I have had really high level success at everything I have tried, so I am sure I would do fine.  Don't really want to give up the freedom I have in my life to coach at a college.

A great example of a coach getting people better right now is Nick Becker at UW Parkside.  Look at his guys year over year results.  Pretty impressive how much better those guys have gotten in a really short window of time.

Although I think Nick Becker is an excellent wrestler and coach I do not think he would be able to move UW into the top 3 to 5 year after year.


Ok, to be clear, I think with the talent that I alluded to with Ohio State;
https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-state-wrestling/2021/11/126649/ohio-state-signs-historic-recruiting-class-featuring-the-top-three-overall-prospects-in-the-class-of-2022

Iowa following THAT up with THEIR best recruiting class ever;
https://iowawrestlingblog.com/2022/11/hawks-sign-best-recruiting-class-ever/

And then Penn State who...again, as I've said since seeing him last year with Haines as another potential Freshman NC(it was not as likely when I said it as it is now) and the very real possibility he's going to have to redshirt or a guy like Facundo may get bumped out of the lineup due to the talent their bringing in...I don't think top 3 is a reasonable starting point for any HC. Just like I don't think expecting Fickell to get into the CFPs is reasonable. It takes everything going right at Wisconsin.


WITH THAT SAID...and again, now advocating for the removal of Bono, but can I ask why you think Becker wouldn't be a successful head coach?


I have absolutely ZERO doubt Becker would be a great coach at Wisconsin. I think had he chosen to Wrestle D1, he could have had a lot of success.

He also comes from a family almost annoyingly nice...when they're not ripping your arms off on the mat.
He'd have Brothers who would almost certainly help him and I believe he'd also be able to put together a great staff.


And Becker doesn't have an Ego. When his kids win, it's their win. It's not about him as you occasionally see with some coaches with the self promotion.


If for some reason Bono was not the Badgers Head Coach, there is not a better candidate I can think of to lead Wisconsin Wrestling. Again, granting he'd have trouble pushing them into the top 3 in the near term.

Of course...in a few short years, he'd no doubt get many of the same labels by some as I don't believe it's actually the Coach, but the institution some people take issue with.

wrestlemania

#14
"Maybe he can get lucky and pillage the transfer portal this offseason."

He'll have to since you seem to discourage your club's top wrestlers from even considering attending Wisconsin.

Our erstwhile "bag of milk" has decided to chime in from the peanut gallery with his observations on another University of Wisconsin wrestling head coach. Now one may say well he would be no different than you are or I am, just a fan, right? Someone interested in the sport, maybe passionate about it. However, I would argue given the responsibility that he has in the lives of young men as a trainer, mentor and guide, to continuously put down others who do put themselves on the line and whose employment status does stand or fall on wins and losses regardless of whether a loss was due to a bad call, bad injury or sheer bad luck, I think requires a little more respect, tact and a smidgen of humility that most coaches generally adopt lest one of their colleagues attacks them. Apparently Mr. Askren feels he's bound by none of this. You cut down Barry Davis, you're doing the same thing to Bono and you'll do the same to any UW head wrestling coach unless they kiss your rings, your butt or perhaps some other part of your anatomy or unless they give you something you want, perhaps one of your toadies as head coach (why even mention Nick Becker at all?)

Actually I think you had what you wanted or should have wanted, if not a head coaching position in Madison (which I think is smart lest you violate so many NCAA rules you'd put the Badgers on probation again), at least running the RTC. Yet for some penny-anne reason you decided you could no longer work there. Which is sad in a way because you lost whatever chance to have the opportunity to help or have input with the Badger wrestlers to improve themselves over the course of a season. Now what's left, slinging brickbats? Is that all?

As for Bono's tenure as head coach, it's pretty much a wash right now in comparison to other UW coaches from a record standpoint. Although given the fact it's rare when a UW wrestling team gets close enough to Iowa to even tie the Hawkeyes at all, he should be given some credit for that. The fact it was the largest crowd ever to witness a UW wrestling meet, I think he should be given some credit for that too. While the record hasn't been great this season in particular given a healthy Gomez (oh what do you know, a transfer!) and one figures a Midlands team title and dual wins over Illinois, Northwestern and Minnesota. Such are the breaks and hopefully he'll be healthy soon.

But here's the rub. If we've decided to move on from Coach Bono now (and moi all warned you UW's wrestling problems were bigger than one coach and continuously hiring and firing coaches would not necessarily fix them) I guarantee you since Mr. Askren seems to be bound and determined to be "King of Wisconsin Wrestling", you're not going to get a lot of applications, certainly not from leaders of other D-I programs. Because no coach worth their salt would enter into a situation where one's success depended upon the whims of a club director. No, being a head coach on the D-I level is fraught with challenges enough that one tries to avoid those that are avoidable.

And quite frankly Mr. Askren, what do you care? Your not a UW alumn. It's no skin off your nose what happens in Madison. So is it too much to ask you leave UW wrestling in peace and stop this ugly dispute even if you do hate the school and anything it seems connected to it? It benefits no one and simply divides fans in this state. For once just consider that silence sometimes is indeed gold.