Is Ben Askren good for Wisconsin Wrestling?

Started by wrestler_73, November 30, 2022, 02:49:41 PM

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wrestler_73

Lots of opinions on this one.  No doubt AWA has improved the quality of our best wrestlers. His actions have only hurt the college program which is having success despite his stubbornness. 

I wish Ben would put his ego away like adults need to do sometimes and truly work to improve Wisconsin wrestling at all levels.

The Legend

#1
So, by your logic he can only be good for the State of Wisconsin if he supports the Badgers? A lot of mud keeps getting slung in Ben's direction.  Has anyone every stopped and asked what about the other side?  Let's not forget that Ben was hired to run their RTC. Was that not him putting his ego aside for the betterment of Wisconsin Wrestling.  He Still had a club to run.  Does this door only swing one way?   Why are there so many former wrestlers that had ties to Bono that no longer do?   Moran, Brown, Burwick to name a few.  To me this has to work both ways.  AWA has zero obligation to UW. I get fans wanting their college team to be good but some of you are just downright silly in your blind allegiance.

PAUL

I would say Askren is very good for Wisconsin wrestling.  I don't know the specifics of his program, but by increasing the interest and the skills of many, many kids it definitely helps the sport here.  It is obvious that he can train some kids to be great, but I'm also guessing that other kids become better than they were - even if they don't necessarily have greatness in them.  The more that kids get better, the level of competition rises and other kids get better and slowly but surely the overall skill level improves.  It may not be easy to see or to measure - besides looking at the great kids - and it may take some time, but it certainly is happening and will continue to do so.  Is he good for Wisconsin Badgers wrestling?  Probably not directly especially given some of the current attitudes.  But I still believe that by helping more and more kids improve Askren (and others like him) have a very strong net positive on the overall level of wrestling in our state. 

dman

Wouldn't it be way more self-serving for Bono to repair the relationship with Ben then the other way around??  And sounds like Ben is more than happy to do a face to face, albeit in a public forum.  Anyway, my point is people can bash Ben for WI not getting recruits but it isn't Ben's job to get kids to go to the Badger's, it's coach Bono's.  So if a club coach feels his wrestlers will get a better college wrestling experience outside of the state of Wisconsin, the ownness falls on coach Bono to prove him wrong and prove that kids can have a great college wrestling experience and be successful at the UW.  People can bash Ben until they are blue in the face, and some of it may be for good reason, but the lack of WI high school wrestlers not going to UW isn't Ben's problem to solve, it falls squarely on coach Bono's shoulders. 

And Ben is great for the state of WI wrestling...period!!

Healthy and happy

The real people that are hurt in this are the AWA high school wrestlers.  Some (not all) of them are very likely being influenced out of the opportunity to wrestle for their home state school, be closer to home for family and friends to attend, compete in the best Conference in the country and most importantly lose out on the education of a top 10 public university (vs Missouri that isn't even in the top 50).  I feel sorry for those kids

Ghetto

No matter what you think about Ben Askren, this thread is BS.

He's a person. Whatever your beef is with him, go talk to him. Making a blanket statement about whether he is good or bad for wrestling is taking a direct shot at him and his livelihood. And those who defend him and denegrate Chris Bono as a person are doing the same thing.

This thread is bad for wrestling.



As long as we are keeping score, I've got something to prove

BuckyMatt

Quote from: Ghetto on December 01, 2022, 09:28:39 AMNo matter what you think about Ben Askren, this thread is BS.

He's a person. Whatever your beef is with him, go talk to him. Making a blanket statement about whether he is good or bad for wrestling is taking a direct shot at him and his livelihood. And those who defend him and denegrate Chris Bono as a person are doing the same thing.

This thread is bad for wrestling.




Sorry for the rant, I've been somewhat quiet lately on purpose but wanted to share my thoughts.

1) My personal opinion (believe it or not as a Bono friend and fan) is that Ben is GREAT for Wisconsin Wrestling.  His growing track record of preparing high level division 1 talent cannot be questioned.  That is good for the state and Ben will continue to train and churn out top kids (the 2024 class is just a tease hopefully of how good the state will get with AWA, Nazer, Crass, RT, etc all hitting their stride with kids training them for longer and longer).

2) Agree with you that the way this topic was presented as a personal question about Ben is questionable but the feud/complete stop of any top level AWA wrestler going to the UW while Bono is head coach is a real thing that the state wrestling fans who enjoy both Wisconsin HIgh School wrestling AND the Wisconsin Badgers AND are fans of AWA should be able to discuss (as rationale adults).  It's a Real issue and until the feud is resolved (many have said it will never be resolved), I don't believe any top level AWA wrestler will attend the University.

3) I have heard many close to the situation say "Ben wants Chris fired".  I don't think Ben has kept it secret that he wants Chris fired. That is definitely attempting to affect Chris's livelihood.  On the flip side, I don't believe (or at least I haven't heard) of anyone with the University saying "don't attend AWA", etc in a way that would hurt AWA's livelihood.  It's just been fans on this forum.  Both shouldn't happen.

4) Wisconsin is 100% NOT the best school for every athlete. However, with all they have going for them (top 10 academic school, closer to home than 99% of D1 schools for Wisconsin high schoolers, #1 best college sports town ranking, etc, etc), I would think it should be at least considered for ANY athlete of the state.  If they decide to go elsewhere, at least they considered it (like Greyson did).  It is my understanding that many of the top kids are not even considering Wisconsin, not even willing to meet with the coaches to learn about the school or see if it is a fit.  There are 82 programs. I've been told some of these kids are ranking Wisconsin 83 on their list of schools (exaggeration but you get my point).  I think that's unfortunate for a student athlete that COULD have a good experience (athletically and academically and socially) at Wisconsin.

5) I truly hope they can work this feud out.  I hope Bono is head coach for a long time.  I hope AWA continues to prosper for a long time! They can work together and help each other if they get over this!


Matt Deadman

Redeemer

Ben Askren is a great name and a big proponent of revolutionizing and improving wrestling each year. We all love the guy and what he can do. He inspires a ton of kids each year.

However, I'd like to know more about why UW is seemed to be so hated. I have friends at UW and they don't seem to know.

ckwrestler

Quote from: novice wrestler on December 01, 2022, 09:03:11 AMThe real people that are hurt in this are the AWA high school wrestlers.  Some (not all) of them are very likely being influenced out of the opportunity to wrestle for their home state school, be closer to home for family and friends to attend, compete in the best Conference in the country and most importantly lose out on the education of a top 10 public university (vs Missouri that isn't even in the top 50).  I feel sorry for those kids

Don't understand this logic, at all.  They're being hurt by turning in to elite wrestlers?  By having more opportunities because of what they were taught at AWA?  Are you saying that the parents and wrestlers are easily influenced?  I recall others defending Ben stating he showed pride in his wrestlers no matter what college they chose. 
I like seeing our state schools succeed, but Ben doesn't work for the UW.

Healthy and happy

Quote from: ckwrestler on December 01, 2022, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on December 01, 2022, 09:03:11 AMThe real people that are hurt in this are the AWA high school wrestlers.  Some (not all) of them are very likely being influenced out of the opportunity to wrestle for their home state school, be closer to home for family and friends to attend, compete in the best Conference in the country and most importantly lose out on the education of a top 10 public university (vs Missouri that isn't even in the top 50).  I feel sorry for those kids

Don't understand this logic, at all.  They're being hurt by turning in to elite wrestlers?  By having more opportunities because of what they were taught at AWA?  Are you saying that the parents and wrestlers are easily influenced?  I recall others defending Ben stating he showed pride in his wrestlers no matter what college they chose. 
I like seeing our state schools succeed, but Ben doesn't work for the UW.

You are missing the point, yes HS/club coaches can influence some kids and parents!  They build a strong trust(which is not bad) but some kids/parents just dont have other reference points.   Its called a pipeline to a certain school which is exactly what is going on at Missouri.(not a novel thing, happens in all sports)  Look at Missouri's roster and the number of kids from WI compared to neighboring states and every kid from WI are AWA kids.   And this has been going on for years, pre-dating the current UW staff.

Why can UW attract elite HS/club kids and even get great (AA) wrestlers to transfer in from other colleges and thrive but this isnt happening with elite AWA wrestlers???  Something smells a little bad and has been for many years. 

100% agreed, Ben and Maxx owe nothing to UW and currently we shouldn't expect anything different

dman

Quote from: novice wrestler on December 02, 2022, 09:09:02 AM
Quote from: ckwrestler on December 01, 2022, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on December 01, 2022, 09:03:11 AMThe real people that are hurt in this are the AWA high school wrestlers.  Some (not all) of them are very likely being influenced out of the opportunity to wrestle for their home state school, be closer to home for family and friends to attend, compete in the best Conference in the country and most importantly lose out on the education of a top 10 public university (vs Missouri that isn't even in the top 50).  I feel sorry for those kids

Don't understand this logic, at all.  They're being hurt by turning in to elite wrestlers?  By having more opportunities because of what they were taught at AWA?  Are you saying that the parents and wrestlers are easily influenced?  I recall others defending Ben stating he showed pride in his wrestlers no matter what college they chose. 
I like seeing our state schools succeed, but Ben doesn't work for the UW.

You are missing the point, yes HS/club coaches can influence some kids and parents!  They build a strong trust(which is not bad) but some kids/parents just dont have other reference points.   Its called a pipeline to a certain school which is exactly what is going on at Missouri.(not a novel thing, happens in all sports)  Look at Missouri's roster and the number of kids from WI compared to neighboring states and every kid from WI are AWA kids.   And this has been going on for years, pre-dating the current UW staff.

Why can UW attract elite HS/club kids and even get great (AA) wrestlers to transfer in from other colleges and thrive but this isnt happening with elite AWA wrestlers???  Something smells a little bad and has been for many years. 

100% agreed, Ben and Maxx owe nothing to UW and currently we shouldn't expect anything different


So by this logic, Ben and Max have ALL the power in terms of where kids go and Bono doesn't have any responsibility for that??  Poor Bono is just at the whim of Ben and Max and where those kids end of going to college to wrestle.

Seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it.

This whole thing is a two-way street...Bono and Ben own it...period.  But to blame one side over the other is absolutely ridiculous.  I believe Ben truly would try and repair the relationship, because despite his bravado, he has proven over and over he wants what is best for his kids.  As for Bono...I have no idea...don't know the man from a hole in the wall...but if he is just throwing his hands up in the air and being like, "well Ben is just steering kids away from the UW, nothing I can do" then a lot of the blame does fall on him.  Good leaders sometimes have to swallow their pride and do what is best for the program, sure hope Bono does that.

The Legend

#11
Cody Goebel
Aidan Medora
Jack Severin
Josh Otto
Dominic Dentino 

Almost 18% of the roster are AWA kids.  Where are the Nazar, RT, Crass Trained wrestlers?

I should say this isn't a knock on any of those clubs.  Point is they are also high level and are producing top quality kids as well.


kabrvi

A coach can only control what he/she can control.

Stating the obvious:

The main thing a coach has to do is create a winning program--through recruitment and development.

I have been attending duels since Bono's arrival and the level of excitement and attendance is excellent.  This will pay dividends with recruitment. Then his ability to coach and develop will be put to the test.

The effect that AWA has on these kid's and there choices will be mitigated strongly simply by Bono's ability to create a next level wrestling program.

It would be nice to not have the obvious strife with the two groups.  But, it is my hope as a Badger fan that Bono can get where he wants to go with this program in spite of this obstacle.  It is a big country with a lot of good wrestlers.  Cheering for Wisconsin Kids on the Badger team is a plus (and one I would certainly prefer), but not a necessity for Bucky to become elite.

Go Badgers.


Healthy and happy

Quote from: dman on December 02, 2022, 09:32:27 AM
Quote from: novice wrestler on December 02, 2022, 09:09:02 AM
Quote from: ckwrestler on December 01, 2022, 06:40:10 PM
Quote from: novice wrestler on December 01, 2022, 09:03:11 AMThe real people that are hurt in this are the AWA high school wrestlers.  Some (not all) of them are very likely being influenced out of the opportunity to wrestle for their home state school, be closer to home for family and friends to attend, compete in the best Conference in the country and most importantly lose out on the education of a top 10 public university (vs Missouri that isn't even in the top 50).  I feel sorry for those kids

Don't understand this logic, at all.  They're being hurt by turning in to elite wrestlers?  By having more opportunities because of what they were taught at AWA?  Are you saying that the parents and wrestlers are easily influenced?  I recall others defending Ben stating he showed pride in his wrestlers no matter what college they chose. 
I like seeing our state schools succeed, but Ben doesn't work for the UW.

You are missing the point, yes HS/club coaches can influence some kids and parents!  They build a strong trust(which is not bad) but some kids/parents just dont have other reference points.   Its called a pipeline to a certain school which is exactly what is going on at Missouri.(not a novel thing, happens in all sports)  Look at Missouri's roster and the number of kids from WI compared to neighboring states and every kid from WI are AWA kids.   And this has been going on for years, pre-dating the current UW staff.

Why can UW attract elite HS/club kids and even get great (AA) wrestlers to transfer in from other colleges and thrive but this isnt happening with elite AWA wrestlers???  Something smells a little bad and has been for many years. 

100% agreed, Ben and Maxx owe nothing to UW and currently we shouldn't expect anything different


So by this logic, Ben and Max have ALL the power in terms of where kids go and Bono doesn't have any responsibility for that??  Poor Bono is just at the whim of Ben and Max and where those kids end of going to college to wrestle.

Seems pretty ridiculous doesn't it.

This whole thing is a two-way street...Bono and Ben own it...period.  But to blame one side over the other is absolutely ridiculous.  I believe Ben truly would try and repair the relationship, because despite his bravado, he has proven over and over he wants what is best for his kids.  As for Bono...I have no idea...don't know the man from a hole in the wall...but if he is just throwing his hands up in the air and being like, "well Ben is just steering kids away from the UW, nothing I can do" then a lot of the blame does fall on him.  Good leaders sometimes have to swallow their pride and do what is best for the program, sure hope Bono does that.

You are 100% correct, there is no arguing that it takes two to tango.  Compromise is important in any relationship. But here is what I have observed and the basis for the comments. There was friction between the Askern's and Barry Davis dating back to a decade or more ago.  Like 5 years ago enter a new person, Chris Bono who appears to have a different personality and much higher energy level.  Outside of a short early honeymoon period, the Askern's have issues again with UW wrestling.  To me, you then have to look at the history of things and think what the common denominator here?

Harris

I actually like the Wisconsin coaching staff and the AWA staff.  When you get two alpha males together, sometimes they can't find a way to get along.  I have seen it my whole life.  I think they both can be successful.  I also think they both have very different styles.  Bono seems to focus on conditioning and toughness while Askren loves technique.  The addition of Seth Gross has been awesome for the Wisconsin staff because he also loves technique.  Jon Reader is one of the most stand up guys you will meet in the sport.  Wisconsin has a lot to offer and it will just take time to really build something special.  Nothing is guaranteed in this sport, especially since you have another 77 D1 coaches trying to climb the ladder as well.

Didn't Askren apply or inquire about the UW job and didn't get it?