Is Ben Askren good for Wisconsin Wrestling?

[Vir Fortis]

Now to answer the question, AWA is objectively good for the state.

Wisconsin just not on the level of Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, states that probably had a comparable level of talent because the wrestling was too spread out.

So Askren and the Crass brothers and Pinnacle, they are changing the sport of Wrestling in Wisconsin. And I think John Messinbrink is one of the best coaching working with individuals and getting the most out of them.

So yeah, he's ABSOLUTELY good for the State...in terms of creating and developing the best wrestlers.


Is his ego the best for all the kids and the States Flagship University? No, of course not. And...before someone stops me and says sommething foolish like, 'So you're saying these kids and their parents have absolutely no say in where they wrestle in College, they just go where Ben(and Maxx...who I suspect is FAR-FAR less concerned over this) order them to go?'

No...of course not. That'd be an inappropriate term01 conclusion. But if you put in the hours you put into wrestling at these camps and you develop the rapport that most coaches do with their athletes, the athletes come to have a great deal of respect for said coach and the parents see their kids earning D1 scholarships and they're proud and grateful and that will invariably lead to an outsized influence on the athletes.


So I'd say just the kids getting and opportunity to go to these clubs closer to their houses and work with other kids and learn from a HOF coach and D1 Wrestlers like Wagner's and the Askren's(or again, the Crass brothers or any clubs that have grown)...that is great and we're seeing the benefits pay off.

I think (and yes, I do understand that UW is not for everyone as I head you off at the pass for this inevitable response) it's also hurting the kids. They're not Wrestling in front of their home state, their fans, in the B1G, at one of the best schools that has D1 Wrestling in terms of academics.


Multiple things can be true.

So to fit YOUR narrative you only look at it from what Ben is and isn't doing but nowhere in your ramblings do you hold Bono and staff responsible for the situation.  My point since you seem to not understand is that it is a two-way street...period.  So you can paint your narrative that big bad Ben holds responsibility for the lack of AWA kids going to UW, but I'll stick with both are at fault, but I think Bono owns the majority of the responsibility.  Just as you say Ben's ego (which is large) is the problem, so is Bono's...maybe even more so. 

1-Yes...I DO look at the question "Is Ben Askren good for Wisconsin Wrestling," at what Ben is and isn't doing. That kinda seems like the logical way to come to a conclusion on this one, no?

How else do YOU judge if someone is good for the state?

2-Rambling? And back with the ad hominem. Not surprised. You're DMAN! Curious, which part of it was rambling? I'm working on being more concise?

3-Yeah, the problem with things NEEDING to be a two way street, when one way gets closed down and it happens over decades with various coaches, I start to believe one of those streets is closed off.

Though...I'm confused, was this or was this NOT about Ben Askren specifically and if HE is good for the State of Wisconsin's Wrestling? Mind sharing with me where I rambled? Perhaps exactly what I objected to EXACTLY beyond not making the topic about someone else? I feel like a great mind like you has a lot to offer. Maybe you could teach me. You also strike me as the type to pick up on a facetious comment very quickly.

Now, I'm curious how you'll take what I wrote here and then turn it into something entirely different so you can then argue against that point?

[Vir Fortis]

Now to answer the question, AWA is objectively good for the state.

Wisconsin just not on the level of Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, states that probably had a comparable level of talent because the wrestling was too spread out.

So Askren and the Crass brothers and Pinnacle, they are changing the sport of Wrestling in Wisconsin. And I think John Messinbrink is one of the best coaching working with individuals and getting the most out of them.

So yeah, he's ABSOLUTELY good for the State...in terms of creating and developing the best wrestlers.


Is his ego the best for all the kids and the States Flagship University? No, of course not. And...before someone stops me and says sommething foolish like, 'So you're saying these kids and their parents have absolutely no say in where they wrestle in College, they just go where Ben(and Maxx...who I suspect is FAR-FAR less concerned over this) order them to go?'

No...of course not. That'd be an inappropriate term01 conclusion. But if you put in the hours you put into wrestling at these camps and you develop the rapport that most coaches do with their athletes, the athletes come to have a great deal of respect for said coach and the parents see their kids earning D1 scholarships and they're proud and grateful and that will invariably lead to an outsized influence on the athletes.


So I'd say just the kids getting and opportunity to go to these clubs closer to their houses and work with other kids and learn from a HOF coach and D1 Wrestlers like Wagner's and the Askren's(or again, the Crass brothers or any clubs that have grown)...that is great and we're seeing the benefits pay off.

I think (and yes, I do understand that UW is not for everyone as I head you off at the pass for this inevitable response) it's also hurting the kids. They're not Wrestling in front of their home state, their fans, in the B1G, at one of the best schools that has D1 Wrestling in terms of academics.


Multiple things can be true.

So to fit YOUR narrative you only look at it from what Ben is and isn't doing but nowhere in your ramblings do you hold Bono and staff responsible for the situation.  My point since you seem to not understand is that it is a two-way street...period.  So you can paint your narrative that big bad Ben holds responsibility for the lack of AWA kids going to UW, but I'll stick with both are at fault, but I think Bono owns the majority of the responsibility.  Just as you say Ben's ego (which is large) is the problem, so is Bono's...maybe even more so. 

Past behavior is a great predictor of future behavior.  The Askern's had negative things to says about Barry Davis and promoted him getting fired.  That started well over a decade ago.   Enter Chris Bono and that past behavior reared its ugly head yet again. So Chris does have some responsibility but your argument lacks the teeth needed to make it that credible. Ben and Maxx's behavior/attitude is pretty predictable and it is a little silly to thing otherw

Now to answer the question, AWA is objectively good for the state.

Wisconsin just not on the level of Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Iowa, states that probably had a comparable level of talent because the wrestling was too spread out.

So Askren and the Crass brothers and Pinnacle, they are changing the sport of Wrestling in Wisconsin. And I think John Messinbrink is one of the best coaching working with individuals and getting the most out of them.

So yeah, he's ABSOLUTELY good for the State...in terms of creating and developing the best wrestlers.


Is his ego the best for all the kids and the States Flagship University? No, of course not. And...before someone stops me and says sommething foolish like, 'So you're saying these kids and their parents have absolutely no say in where they wrestle in College, they just go where Ben(and Maxx...who I suspect is FAR-FAR less concerned over this) order them to go?'

No...of course not. That'd be an inappropriate term01 conclusion. But if you put in the hours you put into wrestling at these camps and you develop the rapport that most coaches do with their athletes, the athletes come to have a great deal of respect for said coach and the parents see their kids earning D1 scholarships and they're proud and grateful and that will invariably lead to an outsized influence on the athletes.


So I'd say just the kids getting and opportunity to go to these clubs closer to their houses and work with other kids and learn from a HOF coach and D1 Wrestlers like Wagner's and the Askren's(or again, the Crass brothers or any clubs that have grown)...that is great and we're seeing the benefits pay off.

I think (and yes, I do understand that UW is not for everyone as I head you off at the pass for this inevitable response) it's also hurting the kids. They're not Wrestling in front of their home state, their fans, in the B1G, at one of the best schools that has D1 Wrestling in terms of academics.


Multiple things can be true.

So to fit YOUR narrative you only look at it from what Ben is and isn't doing but nowhere in your ramblings do you hold Bono and staff responsible for the situation.  My point since you seem to not understand is that it is a two-way street...period.  So you can paint your narrative that big bad Ben holds responsibility for the lack of AWA kids going to UW, but I'll stick with both are at fault, but I think Bono owns the majority of the responsibility.  Just as you say Ben's ego (which is large) is the problem, so is Bono's...maybe even more so. 

Past behavior is a great predictor of future behavior.  The Askern's had negative things to says about Barry Davis and promoted him getting fired.  That started well over a decade ago.   Enter Chris Bono and that past behavior reared its ugly head yet again. So Chris does have some responsibility but your argument lacks the teeth needed to make it that credible. Ben and Maxx's behavior/attitude is pretty predictable and it is a little silly to thing otherwise

ise

Yup!

Also, I've yet to hear Bono take any public shots at the other.
I have seen it go the other way.

[dman]

Very simple concepts here...first off, the entire thread started on an absolutely ridiculous premise by asking the question if Ben is good for Wisconsin wrestling...Ben has done 100X more for wrestling in the state of Wisconsin then any of the talking heads on this thread could even think about.  Second part is I am just calling it how it is, some of you just hate Ben, that is fine and your propagative, but since it is a wrestling forum and people are free to express their opinions, I am going to call out the clearly slanted viewpoints people paint when it would be more palatable if people just said, "Yeah, I hate Ben Askren"...period.  That's my opinion.  I personally dislike it when people try and paint a certain narrative to hide their true feelings.

Once again, my feelings on the Ben and Bono thing...Ben has an ego and his faults, but so does Bono.  I wish both sides would come together because them not getting along isn't what is best for wrestling in Wisconsin.  But if they never do, Ben will still be a great thing for wrestling in Wisconsin, and by all signs, Bono is a good coach for the UW.

[1Iota]

Very simple concepts here...first off, the entire thread started on an absolutely ridiculous premise by asking the question if Ben is good for Wisconsin wrestling...Ben has done 100X more for wrestling in the state of Wisconsin then any of the talking heads on this thread could even think about.  Second part is I am just calling it how it is, some of you just hate Ben, that is fine and your propagative, but since it is a wrestling forum and people are free to express their opinions, I am going to call out the clearly slanted viewpoints people paint when it would be more palatable if people just said, "Yeah, I hate Ben Askren"...period.  That's my opinion.  I personally dislike it when people try and paint a certain narrative to hide their true feelings.

Once again, my feelings on the Ben and Bono thing...Ben has an ego and his faults, but so does Bono.  I wish both sides would come together because them not getting along isn't what is best for wrestling in Wisconsin.  But if they never do, Ben will still be a great thing for wrestling in Wisconsin, and by all signs, Bono is a good coach for the UW.

First off, I took the original question to be is Ben good for the Wisconsin Badger program, not the State as a whole.  It seems clear to me that was the intent of the original poster.  I personally don't hate Ben and believe AWA is the top youth program in the State.  Having said that, he is not good for UW.  I don't know how that can be argued.  Bono may have an ego, but he is driven to build the UW program. Ben's ego is working against that imo. 

[wrestler_73]

Yes, my original post was focused on Wisconsin Wrestling at the collegiate level. 

There is no doubt, AWA and all wrestling clubs have greatly improved the level of wrestling in Wisconsin.

The end result of any blue chip athlete having success at the high school national level and then success at the college level has many factors.  Youth club coaches, High School coaches, Club coaches, Volunteer coaches, camps, clinics, training partners, etc. 

It is a two way street.  Bono must share in the current situation...but it is very difficult to change minds when the Pied Piper of AWA is actively working against you.

UW-Madison, under Bono is proving to be a top notch program without the support of Ben.  Imagine how it could be if it was supported and promoted.   

[Ghetto]

UW-Madison, under Bono is proving to be a top notch program without the support of Ben.  Imagine how it could be if it was supported and promoted.   

This 👆

[dman]

Yes, my original post was focused on Wisconsin Wrestling at the collegiate level. 

There is no doubt, AWA and all wrestling clubs have greatly improved the level of wrestling in Wisconsin.

The end result of any blue chip athlete having success at the high school national level and then success at the college level has many factors.  Youth club coaches, High School coaches, Club coaches, Volunteer coaches, camps, clinics, training partners, etc. 

It is a two way street.  Bono must share in the current situation...but it is very difficult to change minds when the Pied Piper of AWA is actively working against you.

UW-Madison, under Bono is proving to be a top notch program without the support of Ben.  Imagine how it could be if it was supported and promoted.   

I essentially agree with everything you wrote.

[npope]

Anybody willing to share the reason for Askren's departure from the Wisconsin Wrestling Club role? That all occurred fairly quietly without much comment from anyone. That might go a long way toward explaining why bad-blood exists between the two central characters here.