New State Format!

[panther93]

As I think about our state and compare it to others I got thinking about reformatting state. How would this look:

  *Three Equal Divisions (every other sport I can think of uses equal divisions) All state brackets would look the same.
  *Use the DI model of a super-regional (top four to sectionals and top two out for DII and DIII)
  *Same number of teams at team state as DI right now.
  *Include the girls tournament in Madison right along with the regular state tournament. This would require a qualifier, we
    could use the weekend of girls state right now as their regional weekend. There could be four or eight regional sites around
    the state with the top four or two respectively making it to state.

State could be run on eight mats (two for each of the boys divisions and one for the girls.) Start the tournament Thursday morning and make all of the brackets double elimination.  There is no need to make it to state and be one and done!!!  This could be done in the three days that we currently have.

I will amend this after looking at the work done on another tread- If the state does not want the girls tournament on the same weekend, then we could go to four divisions. More parity within each division and then still make it a double elimination tournament run on eight total mats.

[Armdrag]

Some good stuff here...........but I know we can not get in the Kohl Center any earlier than what we currently do!!! It is a non-negotiable issue...............so we can not start earlier than what we currently do.

[Handles II]

8 mats speeds things up quite a bit, so start time in theory could be the same. I'm not sure what their policy is on break times between sessions, but the current breaks seem a bit longer than needed.

[rmk12175]

Thanks for the discussion everyone.


There seems to be consensus on the forum around the following:

3 equal divisions (currently this would mean each division would have 111 or 112 wrestling programs)
16 man brackets at state for each division
8 individual sectional tournaments (top 2 in each weight class advance to state)
8 sectional team tournaments with the winner of each tournament advancing to team state

Now some personal thoughts...

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

[bigoil]

Now some personal thoughts...

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

Love it

[bulldog24]

Thanks for the discussion everyone.


There seems to be consensus on the forum around the following:

3 equal divisions (currently this would mean each division would have 111 or 112 wrestling programs)
16 man brackets at state for each division
8 individual sectional tournaments (top 2 in each weight class advance to state)
8 sectional team tournaments with the winner of each tournament advancing to team state

Now some personal thoughts...

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

This makes a lot of sense! I would be in favor of all of this.

[npope]

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

If I understand your proposal correctly, only the top eight scoring teams at the sectional level advance to the state meet. Does that mean a given team who happens to be in a loaded sectional (and thus cannot score more point relative to a team in a relatively weak sectional) would be left home and not included in the state meet? If so, I think people need to reconsider the proposal - there are many on the forum that complain that their respective sectional is soooooo tough, that it deserves special consideration (tough sectionals suggest a dispersion of points among the teams - suggesting relatively lower total team points). If so, this proposition flies in that face of that rationale. Be careful what you wish for, because you might actually get it.

[bigoil]

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

If I understand your proposal correctly, only the top eight scoring teams at the sectional level advance to the state meet. Does that mean a given team who happens to be in a loaded sectional (and thus cannot score more point relative to a team in a relatively weak sectional) would be left home and not included in the state meet? If so, I think people need to reconsider the proposal - there are many on the forum that complain that their respective sectional is soooooo tough, that it deserves special consideration (tough sectionals suggest a dispersion of points among the teams - suggesting relatively lower total team points). If so, this proposition flies in that face of that rationale. Be careful what you wish for, because you might actually get it.

top 8 teams from a sectional will wrestle a dual tournament.

[rmk12175]

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

If I understand your proposal correctly, only the top eight scoring teams at the sectional level advance to the state meet. Does that mean a given team who happens to be in a loaded sectional (and thus cannot score more point relative to a team in a relatively weak sectional) would be left home and not included in the state meet? If so, I think people need to reconsider the proposal - there are many on the forum that complain that their respective sectional is soooooo tough, that it deserves special consideration (tough sectionals suggest a dispersion of points among the teams - suggesting relatively lower total team points). If so, this proposition flies in that face of that rationale. Be careful what you wish for, because you might actually get it.

No not quite.  The top 8 scoring teams at the individual sectional advance to the team sectional tournament the next weekend.  Those 8 teams wrestle an 8 team dual tournament.  The winner of the team sectional tournament advances to Team State.  I admit this doesn't solve the problem of a loaded sectional.  For example, this year Division 1 Sectional B had five state ranked teams (Kaukauna, Neenah, Pulaski, Kimberly, and Bay Port).  There were other sectionals with multiple ranked Teams this year too.

[npope]

I would suggest running the Individual sectional as the 1st weekend in the state series.  Individual Sectionals would be two day tournaments (Friday evening and Saturday) Then, based on the team scores at the sectional I would take the top 8 teams and put them in the team sectional which would be a 1 day tournament the next weekend (If you can't finish in the top 8 at the Individual Sectional as a team, you don't belong in the Team Sectional).  After the team sectional weekend would be the Individual State Tournament.  I think having the Girls and Boys state tournament run at the same time and place would be fantastic. Finally, the 4th weekend would be Team State for all divisions.

If I understand your proposal correctly, only the top eight scoring teams at the sectional level advance to the state meet. Does that mean a given team who happens to be in a loaded sectional (and thus cannot score more point relative to a team in a relatively weak sectional) would be left home and not included in the state meet? If so, I think people need to reconsider the proposal - there are many on the forum that complain that their respective sectional is soooooo tough, that it deserves special consideration (tough sectionals suggest a dispersion of points among the teams - suggesting relatively lower total team points). If so, this proposition flies in that face of that rationale. Be careful what you wish for, because you might actually get it.

No not quite.  The top 8 scoring teams at the individual sectional advance to the team sectional tournament the next weekend.  Those 8 teams wrestle an 8 team dual tournament.  The winner of the team sectional tournament advances to Team State.  I admit this doesn't solve the problem of a loaded sectional.  For example, this year Division 1 Sectional B had five state ranked teams (Kaukauna, Neenah, Pulaski, Kimberly, and Bay Port).  There were other sectionals with multiple ranked Teams this year too.

Okay - got it now. Thanks.

[Scramble_king]

I like it all, but I do not care to watch the girls wrestle. Keep them in la crosse.

[MNbadger]

We have been doing it in MN the way you are describing for years.  I have posted it on here numerous times......including previously in this thread;
Yes Handles.
3 Divisions A, AA, and AAA
8 Sections for each division
Weekend I
Team Sections(dual format).  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Team Section champs go to state giving you an eight team bracket at state.
Weekend II
Individual Sections.  Some sections are one day, others are two days.  Top two per weight go to state giving you a sixteen man bracket.
The following Thursday: Team Tournament, all divisions.
The following Friday/Saturday: Individual tournament, all divisions.

Heading to the individual tournament in hour.  The team tourney ran yesterday.

[downtown]

MNbadger,

Can you tell me how Minnesota does it.  I don't think I have heard the explanation from you before.

[MNbadger]

Well it seems I need to put it out there.  We have people posting their request for this very thing.  All you need to do is look a few miles to the west over the border.  The student athletes deserve a better situation don't you agree?